Whats wrong with my setup?
 

I have never been able to get my groupings any closer than a 8 inch diameter. I shoot once a week about 6-10 groupings each time out. Is there maybe something setup wrong that i should look into? My FOC is 11%, 29 inch draw, 58lbs. Carbon Express 300 arrows with 100 grain heads. The bow is a PSE mojave fully stock. I shoot with a release.

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

has the rest been set up right"
Nine times out of ten other than the shooter if a bow is not shooting good is because the rest is improperly set up.

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

what do you mean "right"? I bought the bow as a package deal and it can installed. so i don;t know if it is set up right or not. I had gander mountain set it up when i bought it. how can i tell if it is right?

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

Your rest need to be perfect. If its even an 1/8 of an inch up or down, or left or right, youll never get good groups.

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

Have you paper tuned the setup?
There are many resources out there(here) to aid you in paper tuning.
Just because you bought it "installed" does not mean your setup is correct.
Make your adjutments to the rest so you are shooting 'bullets' at various ranges, then, assuming proper form, your goups should tighten up.

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

Your rest aligns your arrow shaft to your bow and string. If it is poorly adjusted the arrow will have to overcome the initial poor flight and depending on how far you shoot and how out of tune it is the arrow may never get the chance to recover. Center shot anjustment and elevation of the rest are critical things to check. Read the paper tuning info here and maybe visit easton.com and read what they have to say and then follow up on it. The worst thing would to be to go hunting with the setup you have right now. A poorly hit deer is a mess to have on your hands and ethical hunters will do whatever they can to prevent this from happening if they can. If you are totally in the dark go pay the man at your local shop to help you. And try to ask questions about what he does to make things right and then shoot till you are ready to go out and do business. Also verify that you are using the correct shaft for your setup.

Hope you solve the issues.

Another thought. Have a look at your fletches to see if there is a contact problem. You can dust them with baby powder and shoot them and see if the powder ends up on your riser string or launcher on the rest.

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

At first glance, I wonder if it's a form issue on your part. I don't want to point fingers, but I learned long ago that a machine is only as good as the user. That being said, are you gripping the bow too tightly? When you release, does your bow rock forward in your hand (not a bad thing) or does it torque (twist in your hand -- bad)? Also, if you're shooting a release, does it have a swivel head so that you are sure it is releasing the string cleanly with no sideways "plucking" or anything? Last but not least (in fact, most important in all likelyhood) is the problem of consistant anchor. Do you have a peep sight or kisser button you always draw to? If not, this could be a MAJOR headache and cause the problems you are seeing.

If you cover these bases first and your groups don't improve, I'd take the bow to a real shop (i've had a really bad time with Gander Mtn... My wifes bow we bought there was all screwed up... cables on wrong side of cable guard, rest aligned wrong...). Any reputable shop will check centershot of your rest for around $10 or even for free depending on who you get there. Most shops also have a range and can watch you shoot and tell you any problems they see. You may pay a little, but it would be much better than getting frustruated with your bow and giving up on this sport.

Any new bow these days should be capable of shooting 3 inch groups at 20 yards. I'm sure a good shop can get you on the right track.

Good luck!!!

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

I dont think I can elaborate any more that what has already been said by these other guys.

center shot is the alignment of the arrow to the center line of the string
assuming the string center line is dead center of the riser you should be able to look down the center of the string and the arrow will be centered from front to back. some bows cams track to the center of the riser some bows cams are off set.

If the bow is a dual cam the arrow will set square to the string if it is a single cam the nocking point will be high from 1/8" to 3/8"
another thing to be concerned about dual cam bows is the timing of the 2 cams if the timing is off the bow will shoot the arrow eratically you will need to take the bow to a pro shop and have the tech look to make sure if it is in time and have him to explain how to check the timing of the cam

another thing to consider is that the bow is properly tuned and you are not using a consistant anchor point when shooting.

It is very inportant to do every thing the exact same way every time you shoot the bow.

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

ditto, and there is the issue of only shooting once a week, and that's a major issue. can't go in the woods shooting once a week imho.

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

thanks for the help, I think it is simply an anchor point issue. The draw length is a little to long for me and i don't particularly like to use a peep sight. With the draw too far i can't anchor my thumb under my jaw so instead the tip of my thumb kinda floats under the corner of my jaw bone.

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

I think some people worry way too much about rest tuning, and not enough about shooting well. You can indeed shoot well with a rest that is not set up the best it could be. There have been pro archers win competitions with some very out of tune bows. If you have well matched arrows that have enough fletching on them they will stabilize in 10 or 15 yards, especially with target points. As a matter of fact, some archers throw thier rests out of tune on purpose to get the arrows to stabilize faster. i have also seen some really impressive shooters that shoot traditional off the shelf with no sights and using fingers. Doesn't leave a whole lot to adjust there does it.

I would guess it is your form, not your equipment. But don't feel bad, I would say 99% of the archers could shoot better than they currently do. Very few archers have absolute perfect form and aiming every time. It is also possible your bow does not fit you very well either. It's difficult to shoot a bow well or have good form if your draw length is too long or your draw weight is too high. Also take a look at how you grip the bow. Is your hand relaxed when you shoot, or do you have a death grip on the thing and torque it when you shoot? You should be perfectly relaxed when you release the arrow. The bow should actually jump out of your hand after the shot. Unless it's a newer one that has almost no shock or recoil to it. It should at least be able to roll off the front of your hand after the shot if balanced well. Get a wrist sling, they help!

Mechanically you could check to see that everything is tight. If your rest or sights are loose, that would cause inconsistancies from shot to shot.

Then check your arrows. They should be straight, weigh pretty much the same from arrow to arrow, be the same length and have consistant spine. You could also check to make sure you don't have any contact issues with the fletchings on the rest, harness and riser. This should be the first thing you do after installing the rest however. Make sure that all your fletching are oriented in the same fashion, if they are not rotate the nocks until they are. ( ei; all your odd colored vanes or feathers point is the same direction when on the bow. Like up, to the left, or down. Which ever gives you the best clearance.) This doesn't make them any more accurate, it just minimizes the possibility of contact issues. After that, number your arrows. That way you can tell if certain arrows are hitting the same spot every time. Say your #1 arrow hits high, #2 hits low right and #3 hits left, but they do it consistantly. Then you probably have a problem with your arrows.

Try shooting less arrows as well. Like three at a time, and rest a little between shots. Take your time and relax, archery is mostly mental. To be accurate you need to be consistant. You have to do the same thing every time from shot to shot. Maybe you can find someone to watch you shoot to see if you are doing something wrong like torquing the bow or dropping your arm after the shot.

Good luck and try to have fun,
Paul

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

I only shoot four arrows at a time. I do also believe the bow isn't setup just perfect for me. I need to get a better anchor before anything though. I'll try a kisser and peep sight.

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

I think you're on teh right track! Hang in there. It will come!

I don't know if I mentioned this before, but you can always try having someone snap digital camera pictures of you at full draw for a round or two. Looking back over them, you'll be amazed about how different you are holding the bow each time! It was an eye-opener for me!

Good luck!

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

sounds kinda like a form issue to me,
A to long fo draw will also open your groups way up, I would suggest trying to get some picture taken of you shooting, and posting them on here, im sure these guys could give you some great pointers.
also is there a local pro shop you could go to? they could prob also help you out.

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

you cant go on shooting with a draw length that is too long for you. Forget about it. You'll never be consistent like this.

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

What?[:-]
How do you expect to shoot in the same line at different distances with the arrow rest off center


Name ONE![>:]

that is the silliest thing I have ever heard.

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

I do know a person that won a world event with a bow that had a bent limb pocket.Out of respect to the tuner and the person that was shooting,I will leave their names out of it.


The person didn't know the pocket was bent and brought the bow to be fine tuned on a hooter shooter at this persons house.He tuned it to the best of his ability but the pocket was bent and a couple days/weeks(not sure) before the tournament was to late to do anything about it so he didn't tell the person.They went to the shoot and won.The bow was probably still tuned better than 95% of hunting bows out in the world.


I have also seen bows shooting 2" tears in paper win many 3-d tournaments.I have seen the tears and been with the person when they won the shoots.The center shot was set right on this bow.



Point is perfect form and confidence can go a long way.



If a setup is consistant,it can be poorly tuned and shot well.



BUT for us mortals that have a few flaws from time to time,it is imperative to get the best tune possible.This will allow the most forgiving setup along with allowing the best penetration possible.



I must say that I think even the best shooters would be better off if they were shooting perfectly tuned bows all the time but it is a fact that they don't always.

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

I have a saying when I am helping someone shoot a bow for the first time. Adjust the bow to fit you, not you to fit the bow. If it isn't comfortable adjust it, you should be relaxed and your anchor points consistant. A peep is a great aid to consistency

Practice does not make perfect
Perfect Practice Makes Perfect.

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

As far as your anchor point:

Instead of placing your thumb underneath your jaw try placing it behind your neck. I've always done this, it really steadies you. My cousin taught me this, and he was 1 arrow from winning the IBO world shoot in snowshoe, wv. He misjudged the yardage on the alligator target so he finished 9th overall.

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

i had a hoyt that had the same problem and it was because the rest was set up wrong and i kept shooting it and eventually it completely broke during a target shoot i also shot carbon express arrows.

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

A rest doesn't have to be set up just right to get arrows to group. In fact, the bow doesn't have to be tuned at all and it'll still group field points well. So long as the person shooting the bow is doing the same thing for every shot. The problem sounds to me like a shooting form issue. And that could very well be that the bow doesn't fit you well. This can make you shoot differently each time you draw the bow.

I see one guy mentioned locking the thumb behind your neck. This in itself can create torque. From experience I can also say that if you can get your thumb behind your neck then the drawlength of the bow is too long. Been there and done that---years ago.

Here's one I use for tuning a bow. I set my rest up on centershot suing a laser. I never move it. If my bow is shooting to one side or the other I adjust the weight of the bow. Who says that we must shoot a particular weight? Can you honestly tell the difference between 70 lbs and 67 lbs? If the bow shoots well at a certain weight then that's what I shoot. If it's too far off then I change to a different spined arrow.

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

I’m sorry this took so long to answer, but I’ve been hunting this week. Rather than just tell you what I think on the subject since you don’t believe anything I say any way, I will quote other people and take things directly out of books and internet sites dedicated to tuning and bow shooting.

I will say however that in my last post I was talking about target shooting and mostly at fixed distances, not different yardages. However I have never really experienced the problem with different impact points as I move back in yardage. At least not any that I couldn’t fix by touching up my sight adjustment. I like to set my windage from the furthest distance I can shoot well. After doing this I am normally right on when I move up to 20 yards. No rest adjustments required to get my windage correct. From what I have seen this problem is usually caused by form problems like canting the bow or grip problems. You are really just adjusting the rest to fit your shooting style.

I am in no way saying that tuning is not important and you shouldn’t bother with it. Getting your arrow to leave the bow in the straightest line never hurts, and is a great advantage using fixed blade heads. But like I said, shooting field points with adequate fletching at normal distances just isn’t that complicated. All the tuning in the world isn’t going to fix 6 to 8 inch groups at 20 yards. And leading someone to believe otherwise is just filling their head with miss information. This poor guy will be dinking with his bow until he gives up. When in reality he probably just needs to learn to shoot better and get his bow to fit him properly. Then he can worry about tuning it to be more forgiving and accurate.

Here are some quotes about tuning and its place in archery. In some cases these quotes are condensed versions of the actual text in order to make my obscenely long post a bit shorter. I have tried to keep the original context of the message as close to the point as it can be. I know I hate it when I am quoted out of context.

From the book Idiot Proof archery from Bernie Pellerite:

“Most archers think bow tuning is the most important part of accuracy. Nothing could be farther from the truth! In theory bow tuning plays absolutely no role in accuracy. This is easily proven if you have access to a good shooting machine. A shooting machine is capable of putting every arrow in the same hole.”

“I know some of you must be thinking I am anti tuning. Not at all! I believe that bow tuning is an essential part of good archery. We are human beings not machines, and only humans need to tune a bow. Tuning simply tries to counteract the influence that a flaw in our execution has on the arrow’s impact. The only reason for bow tuning is to improve our bad shots; our good shots all go where we aim any way. And, as for our really bad shots… tuning won’t help much at all.”

“The key here is to understand that in theory, tuning is not related to accuracy. Tuning is related only to bow performance and forgiveness… accuracy is related to consistent execution of form. Therefore, the more consistent we are in our form, the more accurate we will be.”



These are some quotes from Bob Ragsdale’s questions and answers page:

“Don't be obsessed with "tuning" because that is NOT where accuracy comes from. If you can shoot "perfect" paper test holes at 8 and 25 feet then you are already WAY ahead of the average archer who is probably more accurate than you, but has never run a test of any kind and is nowhere near as good on spine as you.”

“A bow has to have an extremely incorrect arrow spine and/or be dramatically miss-aligned within the bow to 'not group' relatively well. So we'll take the attitude here that you are NOT doing one or all of these 3 things; A. Not allowing the bow to recover identically each time; B. Not pointing the bow in the right direction each time; C. Not using identical ammunition each time.

A. A bow only does one thing for a living; it goes back to the rest position from full draw. It has no brain, can make no decisions and is not “out to get you”. This means that IF it is put in the same situation each time at full draw it has NO CHOICE except to return to the normal rest position in an identical fashion each time (i.e. if you hold the handle or the string differently or release the string differently in any fashion it cannot be expected to make an identical return trip or for the sight references or arrow alignment within the bow to remain correct).

B. At the instant the arrow nock leaves the string the shot is OVER; in the sense that the arrow is now completely on it's own and you either POINTED IT IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION (windage & elevation) OR YOU DID NOT. So you will either HIT or you will MISS because if it (i.e. if your windage and distance sight settings were not exact, or, if you torqued the grip, or, released the string at a different rate or angles, or, did not have the sight held perfectly steady on the exact target, or, if the rear sight was not properly aligned (did not take a correct sight picture) with the front sight. Aggravated even further if there was a different-manner hold or release of the string and/or a handle torque effect to cause the bow to rotate differently during recovery to an unknown sighting point wen the arrow is still on the string.

C. No 'good shot' rifleman would ever expect to shoot tight groups with several different bullet types and bullet weights by mixed manufacturers. Archers tend to think arrows are magic and always shoot perfectly, (maybe it's a fletching thing) but that's far from the truth. If one does not NUMBER THE ARROWS and 'call' the shots where they should have hit and record them and then make other notes while setting up they will waste a lot of time and effort assuming each arrow shoots identically. Point is that you shouldn't panic and make an assumption and then change based on one shot, but 'everyone' does it.”

There are many more statements like this on his site, but I figured that was the one that summed it up the best.


This is what Matt Cleland has to say about tuning in his paper he wrote about shooting the compound bow for FITA. Most know of Bernie and the Ragsdales, Matt is a local archer (Swanton Ohio) that runs an archery shop in his family’s gun store. He holds several world, national and regional archery records in indoor and out door target events. (outdoor long distance shooting up to 90 meters) With recurve and compound with both fingers and release aids. He was also on the U.S. archery team from 1998 to 2001. He gives private lessons and teaches at a local college. He is also an avid hunter.

In his 180 paragraph, 13 page paper he dedicates one paragraph to tuning. The rest is about equipment, form, aiming and the mental game. This is the paragraph about tuning:

“Equipment summary-Tune the bow for the best flight that is possible without putting too much time into it. This tuning should take less than one hour. Once decent arrow flight is achieved take the bow out to 90 or 70 meters and shoot for groups. If the bow shoots vertical groups move the nockset up and down in small amounts until nice round groups are achieved. If the bow shoots horizontal groups move the arrow rest left and right until nice round groups are achieved. Use this procedure to tune the bow then forget about it. Once this is done, focus on the mental game and practice routine. If an archer spends a lot of time worrying about the equipment and tinkering with it, his or her scores will not be what they are capable of. Worrying about equipment will not allow an archer to shoot confident shots. Remember: the one who shoots the most practice arrows usually wins.”

Ok, now about the professional archers that have won things or set records with out of tune bows. These incidents are also from the Idiot Proof Archery book mentioned above.
Bernie talks about several tuning myths and what it can and can't do for you. He states a few instances of people shooting very well with out of tune bows and bows that are not forgiving or set up properly.

One of them being Tom Crowe who is a professional target and 3-d archer. He set the vegas record for the only perfect 300 ever shot in the Bowhunter Freestyle division. And he did it with a high let off hunting bow with 5 inches of overdraw, a fletchhunter wrist style release, over spined short arrows and what everyone thought was too long of a draw and bad form. Plus his arrows were fishtailing 6 to 8 inches on the way to the target. Yet all of his arrows landed in a hole the size of nickel.

Another was Terry ragsdale in 1978. A quote from Bernie “Terry and his wife Michelle, are arguably the best target archers to ever shot a compound bow.” And the above mentioned Bob ragsdale is Terry’s father and I would assume his coach, not mention a pretty decent archer himself. He also spent many years working for PSE designing and testing bows.

Terry shot the only perfect 1200 ever recorded in Vegas and it has never been duplicated since (except by himself). By the end of the tournament he discovered that the bow string had five broken strands directly under the nock. When Terry got home he had heard rumors of a “new” Process called paper tuning (1978 remember). He shot the same arrows used in the tournament through the paper. He flunked the new test with a high left 5 inch rip in the paper. This probably would have prevented him leaving the house if he had done it before the tournament. He duplicated that feat at Cobo Hall in Detroit a month later. He did all this with a PSE Citation that had such cam lean it looked like the string would jump off the track. He also adds that most all of the indoor Vegas target records (perfect 900) were set with old style non center shot riser bows. Including the two 1200s shot by Terry ragsdale.

He also talks about a woman that won a state championship with her two wheel bow so far off it had two separate valleys. One at 28 inches and another at 31 inches! Since she couldn’t draw it that far she never knew about it. Yet she won a state championship with it? I guess she must have had good enough form to draw it to the same spot every time.


I don’t consider myself to be that great of an archer, but I feel I am better than the average hunter. Only because I practice more. I don’t compete nor do I have any desire to. I tried it once a few years ago and didn’t care for it. I don’t even keep score when I golf. I just do it because I enjoy it (I suck at golf by the way but it’s still fun with the right people). I don’t have any trouble holding a one or two inch group at 20 and 30 yards consistently, regardless of how my bow is tuned or the type of arrows I use. How ever I have seen really good archers shoot much better than I can using a long bow with no center shot, or rest for that matter. Not to mention using fingers and no sights. It’s because they are GOOD, period! Not because their bow is tuned better than mine, there is nothing to tune except spine and nocking point.

So this is where I come to the conclusions and opinions I have on tuning. I do believe tuning and micro tuning have their places. I just feel that most archers don’t shoot well enough to achieve it or benefit from it. It’s mostly in their heads. Having a well tuned bow and perfectly spined arrows can mean the difference between shooting X’s and breaking the line. It will not however make an archer that shoots 8 inch groups suddenly start breaking nocks arrow after arrow. Neither will switching to a drop a way rest or other fancy equipment.

The number one most important thing is that your bow fits you and is comfortable to shoot. Then concentrate on form and proper shooting technique. After that is mastered you can worry about tuning and tweaking things to eek out more accuracy. I have taken guys that couldn’t shoot 8 inch groups at 20 yards and had them shooting 3 inch groups at 30 without even changing their set up. Mostly they had poor or no anchor points and very bad grip. Then when I proved they could shoot better than they were I could get them to let me change their set up. Most were shooting too long of a draw length, improperly set peep sights, the wrong arrows and poorly tuned bows. They didn’t always shoot better than 3 inches right away, but they all agreed the bow “felt” better at full draw, in turn making them more confident.

Paul

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

Good post Paul and I am,for the most part in agreement,especially when Bernie says we are not machines.


Most of what you post is true for very good tournament shooters but when hunting with low energy setups like yours, and mine to some degree,we need a very well tuned bow to ensure full benefit of penetration.



It is very true that tuning is for forgiveness and imo centershot is the most important factor for a forgiving setup and then having an arrow that is stiff enough to handle the energy.Of course this is only true if the bow fits the shooter perfectly.


Even a bow that has extreme fletching contact can be shot very accurately,provided all the arrows have the exact same contact with the rest.If they are all impacting the rest differently,the shots will be all over the place.


Like you say,most can't tell the difference but one thing I have noticed about arrows and spine,the closer I am to the "perfect" spine,the better my scores are outdoors.It's that forgiveness thing again.[:-]

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

I totaly agree with you on that point. For fixed blade heads I feel you need to be much more critical on your set up. Whether you have a lot of KE or not.

My original point was that tuning is not going to fix this guys problem. He was talking about practicing at moderate ranges and not grouping well. No amount of tuning is going to fix this kind of grouping problem. Everything I stated was aimed at target type stuff and meant for field tipped arrows with good fletching. Not shooting a fixed blade broad head.

In order to tune a bow you have to be able to first shoot it well enough to tune it. Other wise you are just wasting time and effort and will never get conclusive results. You can't expect to tune a bow better than you are actually capable of shooting.

Now if he would have said "I shoot fine with field tips, but my broad heads just won't group well for me, what is wrong?" Then maybe I would have mentioned tuning and trying to get a better spine match. Along with checking to make sure your heads spin straight when mounted. And also looking at form, since broad heads can magnify problems that you wouldn't normally see with field tipped arrows.

I just feel that people worry way to much about having the perfect tune or what sort of expensive gizmo or high tech drop a way rest they should be using. When the truth is none if it will really make them shoot better. They might for a while because they feel more confident that what they did actually made a difference. Eventually the same problems will begin to occur again though and they will look for some other excuse or quick fix or new gadget that will ensure they will shoot better. I did the same thing when I first started. That's how I know it doesn't work, I tried most of it already.

You know how I started to get better. I quit worrying about it concentrated on shooting. And when things were not going right I stopped blaming things other than myself. If yesterday my bow shot perfectly, and today I can't hit anything I don't think my rest is wrong. Why did it work yesterday when every thing was the same. Hmmm, must be me huh!

Paul

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

Paul,I swear your post are getting longer than Jeff B's.[:-]Just kidding and you are absolutely correct.


Especially about buying new gizmos and all of a sudden the person is shooting better than ever but as soon as the new wears off,there not shooting the same.Time to get new arrows.:eek:Cofidence is everything.



As for the original question,the bow must be setup to fit the person and an eyeball tune should be sufficient to learn to shoot.And then after he becomes proficient with the equipment,let the games begin.;)

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

Hi, nice board.
I agree with you all that form and fit play a big role in how a certain bow shoots.
I`m shooting a Jennings at 60 lbs, WB rest and field points for target practice.
I generally can shoot five or under groups consistent at 20 yards and paper plate at 40 and 60 yards.
I also am a tinker and can`t leave well enough along so i have re-tuned my bow half a dozen times.
The end result being all settings end up back in the exact same place evey time. I use the bare shaft method and grouping for tuning.
Something weird and may prove the point about form and bow fit is a friend of mine was over yesterday and shot my bow.
I was shooting fletched arrows in tight groups and putting the un-fletched arrow right in with the fletched.
When he shot my bow the fletched arrows went right six inches and the un arrow went left six and high eight.
I am tall and the bow is set at 29 draw length and he is a short person so i can only contribute that much difference in the poor way my bow fit him.
Great and helpful thread.
Thanks

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

It's pretty hard to shoot someone elses bow and have it be on as far as the sights go. The demensions you use to set the pins and peep are different for every person. The Key is how well he grouped the bow, not where the group impacts.

He may have been torqueing the bow, and that is why he shot off from yours. But he also could have been lining up the sight differently as well. And the up and down was probably do to peep height and a difference in anchor point.

I have a freind that has a simular set up bow as mine as far as draw length and the such. If we switch bows the arrows impact in different spots, but still group well. His bow is about an inch too long for me though and has more draw weight. And the peep doesn't come close to lining up with my eye because we anchor differently and the demensions of your faces are different.

Paul

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

Agree and sorry about not saying that he did group the fletched arrows well but 6 in. right.
The part i can`t figure out is the unfletched arrow, why would that go so extrem left and high when i was putting it in the same group as the fletched.
Thanks.

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

When you tune a bow, you are tuning it to you. You are making up for errors in your form or release. He obviously shoots different than you do. Having the draw a bit long doesn't help, it induces torque in most cases.

Also grip pressure plays a big part in tuning and where your arrow impacts. In order to bare shaft and paper tune with decent results you need to have a pretty consistant grip. Everyone torques a bow, just to different degrees. Where you place your hand and how relaxed it is has a big effect on this. Next time you bare shaft tune try changing your grip or holding the bow tighter, you will notice you impact points shift.

Chances are he just grips the bow differently than you do is all, so the bare shaft went in a different direction. Fletchings do a lot for an arrow as far as forgiveness goes.

Paul

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

Agree again and just goes to show how much form makes in shooting.
Tune your bow and shoot, if your off one day wait a day and shoot again and you will most likey be on again. :)
Thanks.

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

You will find that the better the shooters are the closer they will usually shoot with another good shooters bow.(Not saying you or your friends aren't good shooters)They usually have closer to the right form and aiming techniques.


I have 2 friends that have about the same level of skill as I.We can pick each others bows up and shoot them very well.They both can shoot mine as well as their own but I can't shoot theirs quite as well.It is a fit issue for me because I have a hard time getting down on their peep.The one will pick up my bow and shoot 50 yards right off the bat without any warm up.[:o]Oh well,they aren't his arrows.:eek:

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

Your probably right but i lean toward my bow having too long of draw for my friend, he is a real short person compared to me.
He has more shooting experience than i but i shoot pretty good too though i am new to the sport compared to him.
I talked to him today and the next time we get together he`s going to bring his bow so i can shoot his and see what happens.
Also doesn`t the fact that i end up back at the same settings as far as rest and knock height mean that the bow is tuned about as good as i can get it for me.
Shooting bow is a neat and challenging hobby that i am finding very gratifying, i`m already looking forward to upgrading to a new bow. I`m looking pretty hard at the BowTech bows, the pro-40 or the Liberty.

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

Yes,it is true that if you keep coming back to the original tune after GROUP TUNING you have the best tune possible for your shooting style or setup.That is basically what you keep doing and that is what you see and hear preached all over.


If you and your friend have a big difference in draw then you will see more of a difference imo than some with close to the same draw.My friends and I are close on draw length.About an inch between all 3 of us.The key with us is that we all use the same aiming style.


When I group tune,I still end up with bullet holes and I believe it has to do with perfect spine and good form.Notice I said good,not perfect form.Very few have so called perfect form.I do not, but it seems to be working.

RE: Whats wrong with my setup?
 

Generally these package deal's are just thrown together and it's up to you to make sure your bow is setup correctly.You never said how far your shooting in order to get 8" group's ,but I agree your arrow rest would be the first place to start looking .

nubo