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Any 04 Patriot, Dropzone, Fixed blade shooters out there?

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Any 04 Patriot, Dropzone, Fixed blade shooters out there?

Old 09-30-2004, 04:48 PM
  #11  
Nontypical Buck
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Default RE: Any 04 Patriot, Dropzone, Fixed blade shooters out there?

Well Mr.Fritz, a neighbor (who has a like equipped Gladiator shooting awesomely w/ Muzzy Phantoms) and I spent another 3.5 hours wrenching on it today. By the end of the session we were both wore out.
I set up everything like yours and immediatly achieved nice bullet holes at 4', 5yards and 10 yards. Then we proceeded to shoot B/H's at 20 and 30 and tune from there.

The Muzzy 3 bladers once again performed well, less than desired, but well. His 2 blade stingers shot the best. But the Muzzy Phantoms were still no dice-some high, some low, some left, some right.
I could understand this if I was shooting high speeds, but this rig consistently chronies 263-267fps.

So at this point it looks like I'll be flinging Stinger 4 blades and muzzy 3 blades. My phantoms will have to stay home (for now).

I might look into the tiller trick I read about last night from ArthurP.
Somethings still not right, shootable- yes, perferect -no[&o].

I'm taking the bow to a new shop on Monday afternoon so they can help diagnose the "creaky draw" and I will have the "better tech" give my rig a look see to get his opinion.

Thanks for the help, I'm now headed in the right direction- just not there yet.
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Old 09-30-2004, 05:20 PM
  #12  
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Default RE: Any 04 Patriot, Dropzone, Fixed blade shooters out there?

You're welcome, and I'm sorry it didn't come around like you hoped. You've got me wondering what a 4-blade would fly like out of this bow. I may have to explore that at some point.
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Old 09-30-2004, 05:41 PM
  #13  
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Default RE: Any 04 Patriot, Dropzone, Fixed blade shooters out there?

Most likely perfect. Sounds like your rig is good to go.
I had my Mighty-mite shooting Phantoms, Muzzy 4 blades, & 3 blade muzzies pefectly last year. I would have kept it, but my left shoulder and it didn't get along.

I've just got an odd deal going on with this set-up.
I'm starting to wonder since I ordered a heavy 60 (odd limbs), how well my limbs are really matched.
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Old 10-01-2004, 07:02 PM
  #14  
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Default RE: Any 04 Patriot, Dropzone, Fixed blade shooters out there?

MrFritz44- here's an update and ?

After doing some searches on different broadheads that "shot like field points" I ran across several threads mentioning SLICKTRICKS. Then I remembered I had 2 left from last year I never shot. With my mighty-mite shooting phantoms so well I never really gave the Slick Tricks a shot. I loaned one of the 3 pack out which is still imbedded in a 3-d deer's leg[>:].
So today I shot the two I had with freshly fletched arrows and both hit dead on at 30.
I then got 2 out of 3 of my 3 blade muzzies to hit within 1" of bull at 30.
The Stingers still shoot perfectly also.
I ran out of time before retrying the phantoms.

After fooling with Mech heads in the past and since my KE has decreased to 65 ft/lbs. I have decided to use them only on stands that are under 15' high due to heavy bone encountered when the shot angle increases. I do prefer their increased wound channel and shorter bloodtrail, especially on evening hunts when going it alone.

Here's my ?
Since the bow will shoot 2 different style- fixed bladed broadheads on the money at 30 and the other style within 1"- is this bow tuned enough to hunt with those heads AND mechanicals?
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Old 10-01-2004, 07:56 PM
  #15  
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Default RE: Any 04 Patriot, Dropzone, Fixed blade shooters out there?

Dave:

I'm not Mr. Fritz, but it sounds to me like you have the bow shooting pretty well now compared to the way it was. I'm sure his bow is tuned well, but those big feathers don't hurt too much either.

I just got a 2002 Pro 40 (I cam) to play with, and I am having similar issues. The arrow seems to be leaving the bow tail low and left. I tried shooting a few broadheads just out of curiosity, and they were hitting high right. I moved the nock point up, and it seemed to help, but not really enough. Tried a whisker biscuit, and the vanes were coming out with black marks and it seemed like the arrow was being pushed down into the rest more than I've experienced with other bows. Not sure what the deal is. I had to stop playing around, and shoot a bit with my Darton Tundra to be sure I wasn't doing anything to cause the problem. Our PA opener is tomorrow, so experimentation is called to a halt for a while. I'm thinking that using a shoot through rest that limits the downward travel of the nock might be a good thing.[&:]
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Old 10-01-2004, 08:38 PM
  #16  
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Default RE: Any 04 Patriot, Dropzone, Fixed blade shooters out there?

Hey Joe, I don't mind if you chime in at all!
Mr. Fritz was just the only one thus far trying to help me out.

My bow is flinging the arrows out tail left hard and then the arrow recovers. UNTIL today my FP's were always left of My B/H's. The obvious fix would be to move the rest out, but when I would try that (and try that, and try that....) my broadhead groups would OPEN UP.
As it sits right now the center shot is a tad over 15/16" away from the riser. Anything past that and the BH groups would increase in size.
The funny thing is when I moved the rest past 1" over I could hear the difference in the arrow flight. I guess the vanes were working OT trying to correct the arrows flight.

I'm happy with where the Patriot sits now and am afraid that when I take it to the pro-shop next week to get the "CREAK" looked at that it will be bumped from it's current state of tune- depending on what they do to it.
If I get time tomorrow I'm gonna fling some more Phantoms and see how they do, I'm not getting my hopes up though. Hopefully a fresh arm and my bows newly found state of tune will allow the phantoms to group better.
If my bows will not group a B/H less than 2" at 30 yards then I will not hunt with them. Too many unpredictable things can happen after the shot to start out with less than an accurate arrow. IMHO


The "I" cam on my 2002 Mighty mite would throw the nock down so hard that I couldn't use my WB deluxe rest with it. Shooting cock-up the inside fletch would actually hit the biscuits holding bar. I tried and tried until I gave up and bought a TT shaky hunter. I had a less than fun time tuning the TT rest I put on it, but when I finally hit that fine line of in tune-ness it was ON.
I put that same deluxe rest on my "I" cam Stalker and it works like a dream, no issues what so ever- go figure?
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Old 10-03-2004, 06:30 AM
  #17  
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Default RE: Any 04 Patriot, Dropzone, Fixed blade shooters out there?

Hi Dave......I was hunting yesterday and just started reading this thread again. I've got some questions:

1. What size fletching and what degree of helical are you using?
2. What release are you using?
3. How snug is your nock?

You and I may be very close to the same tune, but as Joe pointed out, those 5" shield cuts may be masking a problem I have too. I met an older, wiser gentlemen on eders.com and started hunting with him occasionally last year. He was very insistent that in hunting situations a large feather with good helical was to be shot. He reminded me that in wind and rain broadheads are going to obviously fly less than perfect, and that this configuration was a way to mimimize flight variations in real world conditions. He also regularly takes deer with fixed heads beyond 40 yards at the fields he hunts. I guess some of that rubbed off on me, hence the arrow style I've chosen. This may or may not be right for you in Texas where hunting ranges may be greater (my impression is that western archers tend to shoot longer distances), but here in PA hunting shots of 40 yards or more are the very rare exception. If your ranges are typical of ours, and if your arrow has little steerage, you may want to try longer fletching at a more radical helical. Arrow speed doesn't drop off fast enough at hunting ranges for the greater slowdown to cause less accuracy, per what another of Easton's tuning guide graphics explains. I say this because I'm getting good groups at 40 & 50 yards with broadheads too.

My GT 7595's and your Beman ICS's list identical spines, and my arrow is only 1" shorter than yours, so I think our arrow specs are sound.

How does you arrow flight look? Remember on the phone I said that after I broadhead tuned my arrow flight was better per my eye. I could focus on that small nock I'm shooting and against dark backgrounds I could actually see the arrow spin into the target. My field tip accuracy went up slighty after broadhead tuning as well. How does your field tip accuracy relate to your tuning changes? Increase? Decrease?

Sorry I can't help you with the creaking........you have a friend with a good ear who may be able to isolate it for you? I remember another Bowtech post where the cable slide was the problem. That problem drove that person nuts too until they found it (I can't remember who it was). As a home test, maybe you can take the slide off and draw the bow?
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Old 10-03-2004, 06:37 AM
  #18  
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Default RE: Any 04 Patriot, Dropzone, Fixed blade shooters out there?

Just for reference, here's a look at the helical I'm using.

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Old 10-03-2004, 01:18 PM
  #19  
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Default RE: Any 04 Patriot, Dropzone, Fixed blade shooters out there?

Lets see-
1. 4" duravanes w/ the amount of helical an Arizona E-Z fletch provides.
2. TRU-ball tornado
3. Snug enough not to slide down, but not so tight they won't easily "pop off" when I flick the string with my finger.

All of these components were adequate with my Mighty-mite although I did go down 1/2" in draw length and cut my arrows down 1" (from the back) to compensate for the weak spine reaction bare shaft shooting was giving me. Little did I know this bow kicks any arrow sideways upon departure.

With the slick tricks and stingers the arrows fly straight and true (which is why I'm leaning towards using them). I like what the slick trick website has to say about straight flying arrows and their broadheads doing so = better penetration. Sounds basic, but the way they put it makes a lot of sense.
With the Muzzy 3 blades I can sometimes see an in flight wobble and correction. The arrows tail left after leaving the bow is being corrected and I guess the muzzy 3's catch more wind sideways at launch and take longer to stabilize since they are trying to steer the arrow. IMHO

I did get ONE muzzy phantom mated with a blazer vaned beman 340 to hit ~1.5" groups at 30. I thought the blazers might be the answer so I fletched up another arrow with tem and no-dice.

5" hard helical arrows may be the answer for further distant accuracy, but I've never been one to shoot past 35 yards. My east Texas lease is nothing but thick piney woods (close range) and the deer are so wired any shot attempt past 25 and they usually get out of the way before the arrow arrives. (I had one doe do an inside out back flip at 12 yards 2 years ago!- it worked for her)
Fieldtip accuracy is still good, not too many arrow slappers at 30- but they do happen.
I do have 2 southwest Texas hunts booked for December and hopefully I'll get this issue solved before then. Even so 30 is all I care to shoot.
BTW from what I'm reading, Slick tricks aren’t too shabby!

Right now I'm gonna concentrate on this creak as it's still persistant. Maybe it is the cable rod, I'll recommend THEY(pro-shop guys) look into that first. They have two fancy VFT presses so I'll let them taker down.

Time to pack for my trip, I'll report back when I return (Tuesday- Wednesday)
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Old 10-05-2004, 07:12 AM
  #20  
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Default RE: Any 04 Patriot, Dropzone, Fixed blade shooters out there?

I'm at a loss for what to try next. Maybe an expert can make some suggestions. I'm going to try shooting a 4-blade myself if I can get a hold of one. I've always used Thunderheads as the broadhead most likely to plane, just based on their size compared to Muzzy's or these Innerlocs. They fly well on my Patriot now, but they're only 3 bladers too.
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