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mjqood0 09-21-2004 10:02 AM

Wife having problems grouping with new bow
Having really enjoyed shooting lately, and looking to join a low-key league this winter, my wife decided it was time to get into shooting too! All too happy to gain a shooting partner, I set out for the closest bow store to look at bows. With a very small frame, she really wanted something that was easy for her to pull. Not knowing if she'd like it or not, we decided on an inexpensive bow to get her started. We ended up with a PSE Deer Hunter 24 inch draw with a 30 - 40 lb weight. It fit her well and was well within budget even after adding a wisker biscuit and carbon arrows.

Now for the problem. My wife has some limited archery experience with recurve bows and was usually able to keep a 12 inch or so grouping at 20 yards. For as little as she shot, this seemed good to me. She has joint problems, and has had a hard time finding releases which don't pull on her wrist, so she perfers to shoot fingers. With the new bow, she seems to get a lot of cable slap (though this has gone down with practice and improved form). However, her groups are all over! I mean, really really bad. Her anchor point seems very consistant and I am starting to be baffled. I'm actualy getting more worried since she is getting frustrated and I really don't want her to give up. What seems so weird is that it's like every third arrow is way low and to the right. (She shoots right handed).

Things i've tried:
1. Number the arrows to check for a bad one or two. (No consistant problems)
2. Took movies of her release with my dig. camera and watched. No obvious problems.
3. Had her shoot without the sights (instinctual). Actually got better goups, but still had the fliers.
4. I shot the bow at 10 yards and got a 4 inch group (probably could have made america's funniest videos in the process. The phrase "FAT MAN WITH A LITTLE BOW" come to mind).

While I realize that this isn't a high end bow, I thought 6 inch groups at 20 yards should be obtainable...

Any advice would be very helpful! For those of you married, it is much nicer to have a spouse who shares your hobbies!!!

Thanks in advance! This forum is a wealth of knowledge.

Rangeball 09-21-2004 10:16 AM

RE: Wife having problems grouping with new bow
Have you checked for grip torque?

Head in same postion at anchor each and every time?

mjqood0 09-21-2004 10:22 AM

RE: Wife having problems grouping with new bow
Both good thoughts...

I think grip gorque is out since the bow doesn't seem to twist any after the shot (when viewed standing behind her).

The head is what i'm worried about. I know it improves with time, but consistancy for a new archer can be really hard. Especially since faster bows (faster than junky old recurves) = more noticeable problems...

dino195 09-21-2004 03:32 PM

RE: Wife having problems grouping with new bow
Could be a problem with rest (arrow clearance), especially if the bow was set up to shoot with a release and she is shooting fingers. Make sure she is getting good arrow clearance. What you are hearing as cable slap could also be arrows.

Rangeball 09-21-2004 03:49 PM

RE: Wife having problems grouping with new bow
Something to consider is trying a Winn glove release, solid pull back like with fingers, but consistency of a mechanical release. Even without showing up on camera, an inconsistent finger release could be a culprit...

Bigpapascout 09-21-2004 07:16 PM

RE: Wife having problems grouping with new bow
shooting fingers you will need to get a rest designed for finger shooting like a plunger rest oe a springy rest learn to roll the release off aginst the cheek for more shot consistancy and properly spined arrows are a definate must have when shooting fingers.

practice practice practice!

mjqood0 09-21-2004 09:13 PM

RE: Wife having problems grouping with new bow
Thanks for all the advice! It is most appreciated.

I took a look at her arrows very closely. She has a whisker bisquit on there now and I successfully shot for years with one using fingers. Just 'cause it worked for me, doesn't mean it will work for her though! As far as fletching clerance goes, it should be a non-issue. However, this is a B2 bisquit so perhaps one of the fletchings is coming in contact with the darker whiskers? Turns out some of her nocks are loose! They just spin freely in the arrow. This is occuring on the PSE carbon arrows. Does anyone have any ideas besides glue them in place? I like the ability to replace them when needed, but if they won't stay put, I guess glue is the only way.

Anyway, we'll see tomorrow if that clears up some of the problem (for now, I'll just have her shoot the non-moving nocks).

Thanks again!

Rangeball 09-23-2004 08:59 AM

RE: Wife having problems grouping with new bow
You can try laying two short pieces of dental floss over them in an X fashion, then pushing the nocks back in. Otherwise, new nocks? Are the ends of the arrow cracked by any chance?

Jeepnut 09-23-2004 09:22 AM

RE: Wife having problems grouping with new bow
I would definitely start with new nocks & go from there. You may find that takes care of a lot of the problem.

Another suggestion as far as releases would be to check out some type of thumb trigger release. Sort of the same feel as pulling with fingers, but with a mechanical release so it might be a bit more consistent. Just a thought.

One other thought....
Doesn't an arrow when shot with fingers tend to exert some side to side pressure? Maybe the softer bristles on the sides of the newer biscuit aren't strong enough to stand up to that force? A call or email to the WB people may answer that question.

mjqood0 09-23-2004 09:58 AM

RE: Wife having problems grouping with new bow
Thanks for all the good advise!

We did a lot of working with the bisquit and the finger release. It looks like things are going better for her.

As to the loose nocks, we fixed that with a short piece of plumbers thread tape (the white stretchy stuff) until I got some new ones. For those in need of a quick fix, it works quite well. The new nocks helped some of the verticle issues with shot placement.

However, we were still seeing lots of side to side variation. Looking further it appeared that there was something messed up with the bows cable guard. We were still hearing what we thought was cable slap, but instead the idiot at the grand opening of the local gander mtn who assembled the bow had the cable slide and the cables on the wrong side of the cable guide. So instead of the cables sliding smoothly through the slide, there were rubbing on the cable guard. [:@] Why is it they hire chumps off the street for grand openings of stores?!?!?!

So back to Gander Mtn we headed with the loose nocks and the messed up bow and talked to their shop manager. Very nice guy, very polite, very sorry. I told him I was really torqued about this since the cables on that side of the guard are very close to pulling the cables and string right off the cams of the bow! That's just flat out dangerous!!!

So he fixed that for us, replaced all the nocks for free and then set about tuning the bow with my wife for close to an hour! Total cost for his time $0.00. At least they made it right in my mind. I also needed some new arrows as the ones I was shooting had too little spine. In talking with him I got some Whitetail Hunter arrows (Gander Mtn exclusive made by Carbon Express). Haven't shot them yet, but I'm looking forward to that tonight!

Anyway, in the end, she is now shooting 8 - 10" groupings at 15 yards and seems to be feeling much better about everything. So am I! ;)

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