Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

I don't know if there has been a post about this alread but if you go to conceptarchery.com they have a bow that is 99% letoff. I guess the owner is an ex-bowtech guy. I think that would be cool because you could draw on a deer when its 75 yds away and have no risk of spooking it. I would hate to have to letdown though, it would probably rip your shoulder off.

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

Why not shoot a crossbow....when is enough, ENOUGH!?

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

I actually had a customer bring on of these into the shop this past summer. I did not get to shoot it but from what the guy said it was almost as if you had to push the string forward in order to get it to shoot. :)

I wonder what a bow like this does to the theory of having to have alot of tension on the string in order to get a crisp release? Proves it or disproves it?

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

You really can't feel the letoff...all it does is guarantee a very very solid backwall and you can't creep...allowing for incredible consistancy from draw to draw. As for the crossbow comment...that's hey now, and if you can't see the difference between having to still draw a bow on a deer under your stand as opposed to drawing the thing in your pickup before you head to your stand then you obviously don't get it.

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

I get "it"..the concept of drawing the bow vs cocked and ready.....but when is technology going to cease...it's hard enough to to keep this sport "primitive" with the ever expanding technologies......99% letoff..? Just as the draw lock creates a crossbow from a vertical compound.....at least your still hand drawing and holding this particular bow however......I still ask, when is enough, enough?


ps.. your signature link is a violation of HNI posting rules.....

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

The comments I have heard from guys I know and trust have said that it IS an arm ripper if you have to let it down. Apparently the let-off is achieved through a slotted axel design? someone correct me if I'm wrong)
I did hear a disturbing story about this bow....... apparently one of the demonstrations that the Concept guys do is that they let the bow hang by the string at full draw to demonstrate the high let-off and low holding weight. I guess while doing this at a recent shoot or show the string engaged and the bow went off like a grenade in the demonstrator's hand sending the cable rod through a finger web or palm or some other sensitive body part.[:-]

From a shooting standpoint I can't see how you could shoot off the string due to the low holding weight......it would be incredibly easy to torque the string with the release at full draw would it not? I would think a string loop would almost be mandatory.

From an ethics standpoint?.....geez, how much is enough? 99%? You could just about draw it and sit there waiting. I don't think the crossbow comment is far off at all, after all one of their demonstrations is to let the thing hang there by the string at full draw right? what's to keep someone from just drawing it when they get into stand and hanging it by the string off a bow hanger ready to go?
???

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

I think a somewhat important thing to note, is this: Do you think this will be a huge success? I honestly wouldnt hunt with it, and while I have my opinions, I could care less about another guys equiptment (as far as ethics wise)

If 2% of bowhunters buy this bow, and half of them are old timers who want to hunt, I have no problem with it really at all.

I do see the cause for concern though

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

hey just remember this. if you kill that record buck of a lifetime, no-one will ever know because anything over i think 65% let off will not be recognized in any of the record books. don't know if i'll ever make it to those books, but sure do want to count when and if my time comes. 99% letoff, come on.

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

Actually, there are several record keeping clubs that aren't concerned with the % let-off. If I'm not mistaken didn't Pope & Young start taking any trophy now with special classification for 65% and under let-off. I see this as a way for people with disabilities to stay in some similance of archery rather than crossbow hunting. The downside would be if they had to let down, they might be unable to do so without injuring themselves. I have to agree that you have to wonder where it will end. I just don't see there being much market for this bow as a 99% bow, but perhaps as an 80% bow. I think it would be a major bummer for the sport if there is a market.

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

I can just picture some guy going to grab this bow off his hanger and have it go off as he's trying to get it into position - puts a shiver down my spine.

In this case, I don't think the technology would make things much easier. The current crop of 80% let-off bows already allow guys to draw way too early, in my opinion. The lack of tension in the string, would most likely make the bow difficult to shoot with consistancy. I wouldn't be worried about this bow making things too easy. I know that I wouldn't even consider it, and I doubt a very large percentage would.

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

If you dangle a new toy that's easier to operate they will buy it ,
some folks just won't take to anything that's hard to do .

Another concern I would have would be it's legal staus . My state forbids crossbows during our early archery season because you don't hold them at full draw by hand , a 99% letoff is dangerously close to being a vertical crossbow . If a 100% letoff model came out it wouldn't pass muster in some states for this reason . Personally , I'd like to see all states review what's out there and decide whether or not they pass the smell test . I know that I wouldn't be caught dead with a "gimme" bow like that .

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

I won't get into the whole letoff debate...

BUT


The thing that concerns me about these bows is the notched axle. Unless they are titanium or something I personally just couldn't ever be comfy with that situation. If that axle is the slightest bit weakened...whoahhh nellie [:-]:(

I know Doc has been shooting his for awhile..perhaps he could elaborate....

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

That's a false premise. High letoff to maintain a high poundage draw weight for older, ailing shooters does not work. It doesn't work for women or youth either. The shooter still has to drag that string back through the peak draw weight, and these modern cams hold peak weight for AGES before suddenly dumping them into the letoff.

This lie is something the high letoff crowd has invented in order to rationalize their own agenda. That agenda is having a bow they can hold at full draw for a long time. Why? Because they're a bunch of freakin' wimps that can't learn how or when to draw on an animal and keep from getting busted, so they want a bow they can draw when they spot the animal - before the animal can spot them - and keep it drawn until the shot is presented. Crossbow tactics, certainly, so why it so hard to understand why so many people call high letoff bows 'vertical crossbows?'

But, back to the question I want to address. Unfortunately, many people with existing shoulder problems are believing high letoff is the real deal, buying the 'miracle bow' that's going to give them extra years of shooting, then going out and finishing off their shoulders with it. The bow they were hoping would help them actually cut their shooting days shorter. Since there are exceptions to every rule, maybe a few people find the letoff does help them. However, overall, more people are ruining themselves with such equipment.

The ONLY way to make life easier on the joints is to reduce draw weight, pick cams that have a short dwell at peak weight, and have a steady, easy drop into the letoff. Yes, that kind of cam is going to cut arrow speed dramatically, but it's better to shoot slow arrows than to hasten the day where you'll not be able to shoot arrows at all.

IMO, this Concept99 bow is mainly for parting fools from their money. But, that's what most of the other products on today's market are geared for anyway. [:'(]

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

Exactly!!!

I'll put my 2 cents in.......why don't we just lump bow and all firearm seasons together if technology, manufacturers, and lazy people want it? Wanna know why any company keeps making things easier with high letoff bows? Its the money of course. Company A says," I'll make a 99% letoff bow........bowhunters will jump at that."

Sometimes ethics is a good thing.

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

Not that new a concept (pun intended) here guys. The Oneida shooters that are prevalent in my neck of the woods have been able to do this for years. I've seen some of the skilled Oneida guys hang they're bows by the string, straight down.

Also the Concept stuff is ADJUSTABLE up to 99% and can be set for 80% as well.

Let's not be silly though....no one is going to draw a bow and hang it on a tree and wait for a deer to walk by. :D

Letoff for me, personally doesn't matter much. I pull the ever livin' hell outta the string anyway 99 or 50...dopn't matter I PULL! LOL!:D

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

Kelly.

Sorry mate but I have to dissagree with you on that statement;)

You know as well as I do that there are some real idiots out in the woods come deer season:eek::);):D

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

I don't mind the argument Russ....but I've seen these and they just don't work that way. Any jackass that draws the bow and hangs it won't be able to pick it up off the hangar without it firing.

They do stall out at full draw but all the ones I've seen...stiff wind or a little bump and they go flying.

I agree some isiots may try it....I say LET 'EM! They'll likely ruin the bow and get smacked upside the head with a limb or 2;)

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

On a different message board I read about the incident that Matt/PA told about.

It was said that it happened at one of the ASA's (I think Oakridge, TN) and the President/CEO of the company was the one that was letting the bow dangle (to prove its high let off) when it caught a breeze or something and it came up and slammed the cable rod thorugh his hand. OUCH!

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

I am sure this same debate came up when the bows went to 80%. I really could care less what the let off is. Think about it, if it helps you be more accurate and a better hunter then why not. If you are dumb ehough to hang it by your finger or a tree limb, then that proves survival of the fitest.

I say we come up with a 150% let off! You have to push it to make it fire

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

One thing I forgot, I do think some amount of weight being held is beneficial to accurately shooting a bow. I have played with bows at differnet draw weight and let off and IME the less weight I held at full draw, the less accurate I was

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

Because rifles and shotguns will help you be a more accurate and 'better' hunter than a bow will. That line will eventually be the death of bowhunting.

Hard work, practice, experience and getting into the woods to do your homework will all make someone a 'more accurate and better hunter' than any equipment you can buy. Period. But that's too much effort and too many dues to pay for most people, isn't it...

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

I like high let off bows. I don't care if I hunt with it or not. I didn't get a bow to hunt with any way. It just sort of happened after I got it. Not every person that buys a bow is going to go into the woods with it. Some could care less, they just like archery.

I like the way they feel. I have a bow with lower let off and I think it sucks and hate shooting it. If you think I am a whimp, or I'm sure you had a better word for it, I guess I will just have to live with it. Good thing I don't care what you or others think isn't it. And if they made crossbows legal in MI I might buy one just for the heck of it. Hell I might buy one just to piss people off. I'm in it to take deer. I don't go out to see how close I can get to almost taking one. If that's your game, fine, it's not mine. I am using the most effective means possible at my disposal. If they made centerfire rifles legal in my area I would go buy a .243 as soon as I could afford one as well.

You want to impress me, kill one with a rock naked. If you don't like the newer bows, don't shoot them. It's that simple. Just because some one has a little more effecient equipment doesn't mean it's going to ruin the sport though.

I personally don't know if I would like one. I would have to shoot one first I guess.

As far as being able to draw it and hold it, sounds good in theory, but try it once. You still need to hold the bows weight up. It would get pretty heavy pretty fast and you would start to shake and still not be able to make the shot.

Paul

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

They are legal Paul;) Gun season and they're fair game. Nice for those "Bow only" properties.

Also legal if you have a disability.

What kind ya gonna get??:D:D[8D]

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

Like I said Kelly, I like to use what I think works best for the season. A crossbow is not my best choice for gun season. I use an inline ML druing gun season. I used to own a crossbow when I was younger though. Didn't hunt with it or anything, just a toy, Barnett 150lb compound. I actually think my new bow shoots better than it did and handles better. I don't see why people are so afriad of them. They are not "that" great.

And if I were to get one, I don't know what I would get. Since I don't have a job right now, probably nothing at all. I would like to get a parker, but I don't see me ever affording the one I want. I saw this cool little 100 pounder on ebay though that I thought about getting for my girlfriend to play with. She has no desire to hunt, just wants to plink with me in my back yard.

Might have to move anyway, so I won't need any of them. I will not have a place to shoot anymore.

Paul

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

Along with Art's statement that some shooter's are fair-weather "wimps," and I have known some, you also have to factor in that for many "sideliners," bowhunting to them is just to play with toys and brag about their new toys. I doubt many spend much time in the field. For the "gadgeteer," aficionados, the time they might spend hunting is simply a live animal testing ground for their "gadgets."

Said types quickly tire of just punching holes in Styrofoam with gear that cost them mega bucks and also know that to be in the "in crowd" of serious bowhunters, they have to be able to talk the talk beyond shooting at targets and constantly talking about and changing their rig. However, such types cannot hack the demands of real bowhunting, so they want gear that makes everything easy and will almost "autopilot" the hunt for them.

The sad fact, the industry has been catering to these people and that is why the bowhunting market is filled with unnecessary junk that has a higher rate of failure than in the past. Some of the stuff is very cute, though.

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

I remember when only gun hunters said stuff like that. :eek:

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

I've put over 50,000 shots through mine, and there's no problem with the axle at all. What keeps someone from hanging the bow while it's at full draw? Commen sense man, a small breeze would send that thing shooting up causing possible injury.

It's hard to explain...it's not like you are only holding .3 lbs at full draw...If feels like a normal 80% letoff...it's just that the notched axle allows just a hair more cam rollover...the string isn't limp, there's lots of tension on it, and the bow is very accurate and shoot greats. Letting the bow down is no problem at all. The first time is kinda scary...just like all firsts, but after that you'll find it lets down just like any other bow.

I shoot a backtension release, so I reef back on any bow I own...and this bow is no different. Won the 2004 Michigan IBO state championship with it this year...and showed it off a little bit to the Oneida boys in Marion at a 3d shoot there as well;).

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

Don't try and make me look bad because I am honest about what I do. I don't try to make excuses to myself or make it look like I am doing something other than what I am doing. Don't tell me when you hunt your not there to take game. If that were the case why take a weapon at all.

I didn't say I don't enjoy what I'm doing. If I didn't enjoy it why would I bother. But I'm not going to put this much effort into something and make it harder to succeed. The state issues tags because they want the deer taken. Why buy the tags if you don't intend on actually taking the game?

And I am getting freakin' sick to death of this elitist attitude some bowhunters have. Like no one is as good as they are and if you do anything other than what they do you are a lazy piece of crap slob hunter. Get off it for a while already. A hunter is a hunter, no matter what weapon they choose to use. And a slob hunter is a slob no matter what they use, be it a bow, crossbow, or 30-06. Don't just say that anyone that doesn't bow hunt or only bow hunts is a lazy person that shouldn't be in the woods. That's pretty offensive. Maybe some people like to hunt smarter, not harder.

Sometimes it sounds like if I don't use a recurve with woden arrows I should be ashamed of myself and feel like I am poaching deer or something. Sorry, I don't.

Oh, and the little snyde comment about you remembered when only gun hunters said stuff like that. Well, I do gun hunt, so you were partially right.[:'(]

And It's not like I am out slaughtering the deer heard either. I take one deer a year usually. If I don't get one in bow season, I take it in gun season.

Paul

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

Hm, Maybe we all should go back to stick bows then.

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

I agree with Paul. I have went 50 yards into the woods and have killed some very nice deer. I have back packed in and not seen a thing. Which is harder, which is smarter? Both were successful though because I was in the woods doing what I love when I love to do it. It is BS that it needs to be demanding to enjoy it. I think if you really are into tough hunts, then get your scuba gear, spend days at the bottom of the river with 0 ft visability with a 100# stick bow, cedar arrows, flint tipped with a squireel hide on to keep you warm in the 34 degree water with out food and wait for a 28 point buck to swim by. I haven't seen many people do it and be successful but you would deffinetly get my attention if you did do it. Do you wear flip flops in snow to hunt deer? We can make deer hunting as tough as one can imagine. I think if we did though, that would be the true death of bow hunting because people would not want to do it.

As a bow, cross bow, black powder, and gun hunter, I think it is better for people to be in the woods enjoying what they are doing. Not agonizing over how tough the hunt is. We as a group need more pople to join in and enjoy hunting. The more you have the bigger the voice you have to make change.

Sorry if anyones feeling got hurt but, lets just enjoy the hunt with a stick bow or 150% let off

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

Paul, I am not trying to make you look bad. You are expressing a point of view that is all too common. All I did was make a comment about that point of view and I was not particularly aiming it at you, personally.

I do find your reaction very interesting, though.

Consider this... The NBA is the elite of the basketball world. NHL is the elite of the hockey world. Now, say Joe from the hockey team decides he wants to play basketball. He goes over to the NBA, finds out he can't jump. Basketball is too much of a challenge for him. So, he decides the goal needs to be dropped from 10' to 8', so he can slam dunk too.

The basketball guys like their sport just fine the way it is and start raising hell about his rule change. Ol' Joe retorts that they're a bunch of freakin' elitists. He says his only goal is to slam dunk, and he doesn't feel he should have to work on his vertical leap and develop the skill when all he has to do is lower the basket. In other words, lower the challenge. Then all he has to do is get a bunch of his hockey playing guys to come over and back him up. Of course, a few of the less intelligent basketball players would think it's wonderful that their sport - even though it has been fundamentally changed and is not what it once was - is growing so well with the rules change. And then there are the basketball players who see the opportunity to make a buttload of money from the hockey players and put far more importance on their bank accounts instead of what they know is bad for the sport.

Who has the right to make up the rules for basketball? The guys who eat, sleep and breathe basketball and will do anything to preserve it? Or the hockey players who really don't love the game, but want to spend a little of their time playing it? Or the money grubbers who sell products to appeal to the part timers? To me, the answer is obvious.

So... Why is bowhunting any different?

But you, Paul, are entirely correct on one point. I AM an elitist when it comes to bowhunting. Not only do I admit it, I am quite proud of the fact. When I came into bowhunting, the bowhunters I knew EXPECTED bowhunters to be the cream of the crop - the elite - of all hunters. We EXPECTED new bowhunters to adopt and live by the highest ideals of ethics and fair chase. We EXPECTED all bowhunters to invest time and effort into developing their shooting and hunting skills. We EXPECTED all bowhunters to be good ambassadors for the sport among the non-hunting community.

And now 'elitist' is flung around like a dirty word.[&o]

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

Glen:

Your conclusion that someone is saying that bowhunting MUST be difficult and your description of how difficult someone is saying bowhunting should be, is quite an exaggeration.

I believe the underlying message is that some of the bowhunting gear that is available is responsible for inviting "slob" bowhunters to join the sport, and responsible for putting "slob" bowhunters in the field. I am in a position that enables me to keep these types away from me and out of my hunting areas. Not everyone has the same advantage. If you have not run into these types yet, you will.

Do I consider myself an "elitist?" You can bet your life on it! And proud to admit it! Am I stuck in yesteryear? Only in the minds of those that believe that you gauge expertise and "with the times" on how costly the person's gear is, how recent the person's gear is, and how many "gimmicks" the person uses.

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

Bad comparison Arthur. You are comparing competitive sports to hunting, it's just not the same thing. The whole goal of those games are to see who is better, it is a competition. It also supports team work, but anymore it's not like that. It's usually one or two guys carrying the team and hogging all the glory. Of course this is to be expected of competitive people. And I don't consider hunting to be a sport either.

I don't go out into the woods and hunt to prove I am better than you are, or I can take more or bigger deer than someone else. It's not a competition between hunters. It might be a competition with yourself at some level, but it shouldn't be between hunters. That's why pope and young and stuff like that have rules, to help make it more even between those that want to enter animals. I could care less about that stuff, so it doesn't matter to me. I hunt for me, not to prove a point or be noticed. And if I want to do it as hard as I can, or as easy as is legally possible is up to me, not another individule.

And if you think looking down upon and ragging on those that don't do things exactly the way you do is being a good embassador you should look the word up. And who says those that hunt all season don't invest time and effort into it , or practice and have good ethics. I know you didn't mean any of this personally at me, but it effects me, so I take it personally. I fit in the group you are saying are lazy and don't have any ethics. That's a pretty big insult to me. I practice year round and study. And I am also very concerned with the game I hunt and the repercusions of going about it half ass.

And I do take short cuts at times. Like use a range finder and a more effecient bow. That's because I'm little and I don't think I judge yardarge that well yet. Would it be more ethical for me to go out in the woods and guess about whether I can hit a deer at a certain range and pray if I hit it that I can kill it with my weak set up. I don't think so. I think it's better that I do what needs to be done to get the job done right and ensure a clean kill on what I am hunting. Like knowing what my equipment will do at what range and making sure I don't shoot beyond that limit. I do the same with my gun. I shoot rifles year round as well and know where my bullet will hit at what range. Not what a ballistics chart says it will do, but where it will actually hit. If I don't have the room or capabilities to test it, I don't shoot at game that way.

I could argue that hunting with traditional equipment is unethical because it's harder to take game and easier to miss and wound animals. How about all the new lazy hunters get together and make it so you can't use that arcane outdated stuff because it's not humane? And the people that use them are too ignorant and stubborn to change with the times and use something that works better. You don't think other sports have employed more technical things into thier game? Like better shoes, bats, balls and training techniques.

Doesn't sound very good does it. And where would that get us in the long run? That's not personally how I feel by the way, but that's what it makes me feel like when I hear the stuff you are saying. Like there is no room in hunting for people like me and we should just sell our stuff and quit because we are lazy and suck.

And don't take any of this personal Arthur, I like you. You just happened to bring up something that hits a nerve with me on a day when I didn't feel like listening to it anymore.

I do know what you are talking about and how you feel though. I have the same feelings, though not the the same degree, about DVD players. I am very into home theatre and have had a DVD player since around the time they came out to the general public. Then the players cost a bit of money and required some set up and learning to use them correctly. Aslo that you had the proper equipment to hook them up to. I was thrilled when they first started renting DVD's. Not many people had the players and it was easy to get a movie I wanted when it came out. And because those that had the players were adults that had spent the time and money to aquire the technology respected it and took care of the discs. Now with the dvd players as low as 50 bucks and that freakin play station II that plays them came out every dumb ass and 12 year old kid has one! When the disc you do want is in, it's either scratched or covered with fingerprints and peanut butter so bad it won't play, or you don't want to put it in your player. However without the interest in it the technology wouldn't be as good as it is right now.

You feel the same way about hunting. Now that it has been made easier and is more popular there a more idiots doing it. Life sucks I guess. Some people in golf don't care for Tiger Woods either because he is bringing a different crowd to the sport and they feel it will be ruined for them.

And this will be the last post I make on it. Before someone says something they don't mean or a moderator has to step in. I have sort of taken this post off course and I apologize for it.

Paul

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

Art was generalizing. He did not name you nor did he specify that he was talking about you. Therefore, if you believe you fit the "group" he described…as he gave his opinion, you put yourself in the "group" not Art.

Maybe you don't have the bowhunting history that Art does, and are not yet able to understand the big picture that is unfolding.

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

Come on now , everyone knows "slob" is used to describe a trophy buck!:D

Sorry fellas , I figured this thread needed a little humor.


Hunting season is approaching fast!:)

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

He doesn't have to name me, a generalization is good enough. And he quoted me, thats pretty specific I would think. I'm not gay either, but if you came on here bashing them I would still be offended.

That's exactly my point by the way, I am in the group he is describing, but I am not the type of person he is refering to. Maybe he should be more specific. Like I said bad hunters are bad hunters, I don't care what weapon they use. I have seen some pretty crappy unethical bow hunters as well. They just think they are better is all because they don't gun hunt.

I probably should have said all that in a Private Messege I suppose. Because I really wasn't talking to you and wasn't looking for your comments. Of course like always I got them anyway didn't I. And I don't think Arthur needs you to stick up for him either.

Ok, now I'm done.

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

I must be PMSing or something?[:o]

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

You'll get your period pretty soon! In the woods that is.;)

RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!
 

Paul:

FYI: Don't become paranoid whenever football players huddle; they are not talking about you! ;)