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Concept archer 99% letoff!

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Concept archer 99% letoff!

Old 09-11-2004, 09:24 AM
  #31  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Default RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!

I agree with Paul. I have went 50 yards into the woods and have killed some very nice deer. I have back packed in and not seen a thing. Which is harder, which is smarter? Both were successful though because I was in the woods doing what I love when I love to do it. It is BS that it needs to be demanding to enjoy it. I think if you really are into tough hunts, then get your scuba gear, spend days at the bottom of the river with 0 ft visability with a 100# stick bow, cedar arrows, flint tipped with a squireel hide on to keep you warm in the 34 degree water with out food and wait for a 28 point buck to swim by. I haven't seen many people do it and be successful but you would deffinetly get my attention if you did do it. Do you wear flip flops in snow to hunt deer? We can make deer hunting as tough as one can imagine. I think if we did though, that would be the true death of bow hunting because people would not want to do it.

As a bow, cross bow, black powder, and gun hunter, I think it is better for people to be in the woods enjoying what they are doing. Not agonizing over how tough the hunt is. We as a group need more pople to join in and enjoy hunting. The more you have the bigger the voice you have to make change.

Sorry if anyones feeling got hurt but, lets just enjoy the hunt with a stick bow or 150% let off
Glen In Marland is offline  
Old 09-11-2004, 09:47 AM
  #32  
Giant Nontypical
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Default RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!

Paul, I am not trying to make you look bad. You are expressing a point of view that is all too common. All I did was make a comment about that point of view and I was not particularly aiming it at you, personally.

I do find your reaction very interesting, though.

Consider this... The NBA is the elite of the basketball world. NHL is the elite of the hockey world. Now, say Joe from the hockey team decides he wants to play basketball. He goes over to the NBA, finds out he can't jump. Basketball is too much of a challenge for him. So, he decides the goal needs to be dropped from 10' to 8', so he can slam dunk too.

The basketball guys like their sport just fine the way it is and start raising hell about his rule change. Ol' Joe retorts that they're a bunch of freakin' elitists. He says his only goal is to slam dunk, and he doesn't feel he should have to work on his vertical leap and develop the skill when all he has to do is lower the basket. In other words, lower the challenge. Then all he has to do is get a bunch of his hockey playing guys to come over and back him up. Of course, a few of the less intelligent basketball players would think it's wonderful that their sport - even though it has been fundamentally changed and is not what it once was - is growing so well with the rules change. And then there are the basketball players who see the opportunity to make a buttload of money from the hockey players and put far more importance on their bank accounts instead of what they know is bad for the sport.

Who has the right to make up the rules for basketball? The guys who eat, sleep and breathe basketball and will do anything to preserve it? Or the hockey players who really don't love the game, but want to spend a little of their time playing it? Or the money grubbers who sell products to appeal to the part timers? To me, the answer is obvious.

So... Why is bowhunting any different?

But you, Paul, are entirely correct on one point. I AM an elitist when it comes to bowhunting. Not only do I admit it, I am quite proud of the fact. When I came into bowhunting, the bowhunters I knew EXPECTED bowhunters to be the cream of the crop - the elite - of all hunters. We EXPECTED new bowhunters to adopt and live by the highest ideals of ethics and fair chase. We EXPECTED all bowhunters to invest time and effort into developing their shooting and hunting skills. We EXPECTED all bowhunters to be good ambassadors for the sport among the non-hunting community.

And now 'elitist' is flung around like a dirty word.[&o]
Arthur P is offline  
Old 09-11-2004, 10:36 AM
  #33  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Illinois
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Default RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!

Glen:

Your conclusion that someone is saying that bowhunting MUST be difficult and your description of how difficult someone is saying bowhunting should be, is quite an exaggeration.

I believe the underlying message is that some of the bowhunting gear that is available is responsible for inviting "slob" bowhunters to join the sport, and responsible for putting "slob" bowhunters in the field. I am in a position that enables me to keep these types away from me and out of my hunting areas. Not everyone has the same advantage. If you have not run into these types yet, you will.

Do I consider myself an "elitist?" You can bet your life on it! And proud to admit it! Am I stuck in yesteryear? Only in the minds of those that believe that you gauge expertise and "with the times" on how costly the person's gear is, how recent the person's gear is, and how many "gimmicks" the person uses.
c903 is offline  
Old 09-11-2004, 12:24 PM
  #34  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blissfield MI USA
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Default RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!

Bad comparison Arthur. You are comparing competitive sports to hunting, it's just not the same thing. The whole goal of those games are to see who is better, it is a competition. It also supports team work, but anymore it's not like that. It's usually one or two guys carrying the team and hogging all the glory. Of course this is to be expected of competitive people. And I don't consider hunting to be a sport either.

I don't go out into the woods and hunt to prove I am better than you are, or I can take more or bigger deer than someone else. It's not a competition between hunters. It might be a competition with yourself at some level, but it shouldn't be between hunters. That's why pope and young and stuff like that have rules, to help make it more even between those that want to enter animals. I could care less about that stuff, so it doesn't matter to me. I hunt for me, not to prove a point or be noticed. And if I want to do it as hard as I can, or as easy as is legally possible is up to me, not another individule.

And if you think looking down upon and ragging on those that don't do things exactly the way you do is being a good embassador you should look the word up. And who says those that hunt all season don't invest time and effort into it , or practice and have good ethics. I know you didn't mean any of this personally at me, but it effects me, so I take it personally. I fit in the group you are saying are lazy and don't have any ethics. That's a pretty big insult to me. I practice year round and study. And I am also very concerned with the game I hunt and the repercusions of going about it half ass.

And I do take short cuts at times. Like use a range finder and a more effecient bow. That's because I'm little and I don't think I judge yardarge that well yet. Would it be more ethical for me to go out in the woods and guess about whether I can hit a deer at a certain range and pray if I hit it that I can kill it with my weak set up. I don't think so. I think it's better that I do what needs to be done to get the job done right and ensure a clean kill on what I am hunting. Like knowing what my equipment will do at what range and making sure I don't shoot beyond that limit. I do the same with my gun. I shoot rifles year round as well and know where my bullet will hit at what range. Not what a ballistics chart says it will do, but where it will actually hit. If I don't have the room or capabilities to test it, I don't shoot at game that way.

I could argue that hunting with traditional equipment is unethical because it's harder to take game and easier to miss and wound animals. How about all the new lazy hunters get together and make it so you can't use that arcane outdated stuff because it's not humane? And the people that use them are too ignorant and stubborn to change with the times and use something that works better. You don't think other sports have employed more technical things into thier game? Like better shoes, bats, balls and training techniques.

Doesn't sound very good does it. And where would that get us in the long run? That's not personally how I feel by the way, but that's what it makes me feel like when I hear the stuff you are saying. Like there is no room in hunting for people like me and we should just sell our stuff and quit because we are lazy and suck.

And don't take any of this personal Arthur, I like you. You just happened to bring up something that hits a nerve with me on a day when I didn't feel like listening to it anymore.

I do know what you are talking about and how you feel though. I have the same feelings, though not the the same degree, about DVD players. I am very into home theatre and have had a DVD player since around the time they came out to the general public. Then the players cost a bit of money and required some set up and learning to use them correctly. Aslo that you had the proper equipment to hook them up to. I was thrilled when they first started renting DVD's. Not many people had the players and it was easy to get a movie I wanted when it came out. And because those that had the players were adults that had spent the time and money to aquire the technology respected it and took care of the discs. Now with the dvd players as low as 50 bucks and that freakin play station II that plays them came out every dumb ass and 12 year old kid has one! When the disc you do want is in, it's either scratched or covered with fingerprints and peanut butter so bad it won't play, or you don't want to put it in your player. However without the interest in it the technology wouldn't be as good as it is right now.

You feel the same way about hunting. Now that it has been made easier and is more popular there a more idiots doing it. Life sucks I guess. Some people in golf don't care for Tiger Woods either because he is bringing a different crowd to the sport and they feel it will be ruined for them.

And this will be the last post I make on it. Before someone says something they don't mean or a moderator has to step in. I have sort of taken this post off course and I apologize for it.

Paul
Paul L Mohr is offline  
Old 09-11-2004, 02:12 PM
  #35  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Default RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!

Art was generalizing. He did not name you nor did he specify that he was talking about you. Therefore, if you believe you fit the "group" he described…as he gave his opinion, you put yourself in the "group" not Art.

Maybe you don't have the bowhunting history that Art does, and are not yet able to understand the big picture that is unfolding.
c903 is offline  
Old 09-11-2004, 03:05 PM
  #36  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!

I believe the underlying message is that some of the bowhunting gear that is available is responsible for inviting "slob" bowhunters to join the sport, and responsible for putting "slob" bowhunters in the field.
Come on now , everyone knows "slob" is used to describe a trophy buck!

Sorry fellas , I figured this thread needed a little humor.


Hunting season is approaching fast!
BOWFANATIC is offline  
Old 09-11-2004, 03:09 PM
  #37  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blissfield MI USA
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Default RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!

He doesn't have to name me, a generalization is good enough. And he quoted me, thats pretty specific I would think. I'm not gay either, but if you came on here bashing them I would still be offended.

That's exactly my point by the way, I am in the group he is describing, but I am not the type of person he is refering to. Maybe he should be more specific. Like I said bad hunters are bad hunters, I don't care what weapon they use. I have seen some pretty crappy unethical bow hunters as well. They just think they are better is all because they don't gun hunt.

I probably should have said all that in a Private Messege I suppose. Because I really wasn't talking to you and wasn't looking for your comments. Of course like always I got them anyway didn't I. And I don't think Arthur needs you to stick up for him either.

Ok, now I'm done.
Paul L Mohr is offline  
Old 09-11-2004, 03:12 PM
  #38  
 
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Default RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!

I must be PMSing or something?[]
Paul L Mohr is offline  
Old 09-11-2004, 03:56 PM
  #39  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!

I must be PMSing or something?
You'll get your period pretty soon! In the woods that is.
BOWFANATIC is offline  
Old 09-11-2004, 10:10 PM
  #40  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Illinois
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Default RE: Concept archer 99% letoff!

Paul:

FYI: Don't become paranoid whenever football players huddle; they are not talking about you!
c903 is offline  
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