Questions Re: Quik Spin vanes?
 

I've read several posts of people that were successful and happy with these vanes. Those of you that have tried them, how did you fletch them, straight, right offset, or right helical? What spin rate will these vanes give if fletched straight and would it still be enough to stabilize a broadhead? Thanks for responses and info.:)

RE: Questions Re: Quik Spin vanes?
 

Haven't done them completely straight, but they fly great with about 1 degree offset. I tried helical and they didn't seem to perform as well.

RE: Questions Re: Quik Spin vanes?
 

I have only fletched them with offset for 1 - 3 degrees. I couldn't notice much difference within that range. I have not tried helical as it is not recommended with these vanes. I did get very good broad head flight with the Quickspins. Although they aren't the most durable vane on the market I think they are a great vane for a hunting arrow.

RE: Questions Re: Quik Spin vanes?
 

Correct me if I am wrong.

Doesn't the manufacturer of the "Quikspin" and the retailers of the vane advertise and express that one of the main features of the vane, is that the vane can be fletched either straight, right offset, or right helical, and obtain the same accuracy and groups with either setting, and do so better than any other vane?

Has not the same feature of fletching straight, offset, or helical been expressed here on these forums by some shooters who use the vane and/or have tested the vane?

If the vane does not do any better than some other vanes at certain ranges, does not do so well with broadheads for some shooters, should not be fletched helical, and are not very durable; how can the vane be a great vane for a hunting arrow? That implies that accuracy in the field is acceptable when accuracy and durability is just so-so.

RE: Questions Re: Quik Spin vanes?
 

http://www.broadheadtests.com/FEATURES2.html here is my review of them, it should help answer your questions

RE: Questions Re: Quik Spin vanes?
 

Some say the vane is durable, many have said the vane is not durable. :eek:

What makes me wince each time I read it, is when someone says that an arrow that is mounted with the "Quikspin" will fly very good when shot off a bow that is not tuned well or not tuned at all.

What does that mean? That an arrow shot from a bow that is not well tuned or not tuned at all will correct itself in flight as long as the shaft is mounted with "Quikspin" vanes? Hogwash! Hype is hype, but that hype takes the cake.

RE: Questions Re: Quik Spin vanes?
 

You know C903, for someone who have never tried these vanes, you sure have lots to say about them. Nothing worth reading, but lots to say none the less. As I recall you are qualified to talk about them because "I know something about archery!" Kind of like a butcher know something about animals. However, I wouldn't take my dog to him if he was sick. You crack me up.:D

RE: Questions Re: Quik Spin vanes?
 

c903 - HOLY COW! Here we/you go again. Haven't you beat this to death yet? I'm about to go out in the back yard, kill my horse and start shooting it again and again with my QuikSpins. I want to know the feeling of killing a dead horse with them vs my normal vanes. Figure I can compare accuracy, arrow flight and penetration on my dead horse. I wonder if my QuikSpins are better than feathers when shooting at my dead horse. Wonder if they are noisier and my dead horse will hear them coming?

WOW..

Now on a serious note.. I posted my personal tests here and mine are fletched at 1 degree offset:
http://forum.hunting.net/asppg/tm.asp?m=713501

RE: Questions Re: Quik Spin vanes?
 

If you have personally had success with a bow or a certain piece of gear, that is great. However, just because something worked for you does not make your success or your willingness to accept a lower degree of performance and satisfaction a universal one-size-fits-all.

It is quite simple. If you are satisfied with the performance of certain gear, then ignore it when something you like is not liked by others or is picked apart by someone. There may be others that want to hear all the opinions they can before they make a choice. Not everyone bites on just the hype.

As for the age-old and tiring defense that someone must have personally used or tested something to evaluate a design and its intended and claimed performance, the defense and belief is ludicrous. However, such a weak defense is understandable if the person does not have the necessary experience to evaluate and compare beyond the embellishments.

I take the "Holy Cow....have you not beat this to death..." to mean, "Why don't you shut up and let others hear just my opinion, and the opinions of others that agree with me and think like I do?"

NorthernMn:

Go back an grab the quote that refers to your paraphrase, "As I recall you are qualified to talk about them because "I know something about archery!" When you copy it in its actual context, what I said is not as you insuate. :eek:

RE: Questions Re: Quik Spin vanes?
 

c903 - I have alot of experience in archery and as you should know from my other posts I'm usually hesitant to change. Another thing I am is an engineer. Plain and simple, to fully test any theory you need to test that theory. These are the basic principles of the scientific method, things we learn in grade school. Have you done this, NO, yet you are an expert on the subject?!?

Yes, you can question design, basic principles, blah.. blah, but you still need to perform that test. I personally was skeptical, curious, the works. I bought some, tried some and have based my opinions on those tests. I see you as the perfect candidate to try them. You have your theory, so go prove or disprove it. What's the worse thing that could happen? You might prove yourself correct or you might end up with a new vane!

You complain about hype, yet live by it. Your opinion is based on nothing but your personal opinion about performance and design. You have your opinion and you are entitled to it. I respect that fact you have an opinion, but it almost amazes me how you question these things so stubbornly without trying them.

RE: Questions Re: Quik Spin vanes?
 

Thank You, to Roland, NorthernMN, 5shot, and BowElkFreak for your opinions and write ups, I read them and they were informative and helpful. Looks like anywhere from straight to 1-3 degrees of offset is the best. C903 I value contrasting opinions as well but theres weigh more because they have actually used the QuikSpin vanes. Thank you though as well.:)

RE: Questions Re: Quik Spin vanes?
 

BowElkFreak:

You need to peruse all that I have said regarding the "claims," and show me where I have indicated that I know for a fact that the "claims" are erroneous, based on personal use. I do not recall having said that no person should use the product because the "claims" are indisputably false. I do not recall having directly criticized anyone whom uses the product or intends to purchase and use the product.

Being an engineer, you should know that not everyone involved in the innovation, the design, the speculative level of evaluation of proposed performance, the fabrication, etc, are ALL involved in the final testing. Therefore, I would assume that you would NOT totally discount the applied theories and input from all those NOT involved in the testing. However, conversely, you are saying that I must be involved in the testing in order for my dispute of some of the claims vs. cost to have any credibility.

As an engineer, are you willing to state that the short-term and undocumented tests by an individual, including your short-term experience with the product, satisfies all the requirements of "regressive and conformance testing?" That you, or any other person or retailer can say with certainty that the Quikspin vane does "Maximize accuracy and produces tighter arrow groups like you’ve never thought possible," and that the "Quikspin" vane does have a "Flatter trajectory compared to conventional vanes," and therefore the cost and the use are absolutely justified?

According to your synopsis of your test, you are not ready to say with certainty that the product lives or does not live up to all claims and that the vane is superior. Therefore, if you have not yet performed all the aspects of proper testing, and are yet convinced that your test results validate or invalidate all or some of the performance claims, how can you already discredit any reasonable hypothesis?

So far, it appears that the "Quikspin" simply falls within the category as many other products do; that the product does, so far, seem to perform reasonably well, but not so superior as to make all other similar products inferior or outmoded, and that the product might work sufficiently well for some people, but cannot be guaranteed to work the same for all?

As I said previously, if a person has the money and wants to try the product, and is not concerned about being disappointed for having spent $20.00 for 36 "Quikspin" vanes when it costs about $10.00 for 100 vanes of a different but popular brand, that is the person's right of choice. However, I still have not seen any long-term evidence that indisputably justifies the cost or demonstrates that the performance is so greatly superior that a person should sell some family heirlooms and purchase the vanes for bowhunting purpose.

I will pass on the testing of the vane, because my fletch has performed exceptionally well for 40 years and I have yet to read anything that convinces me that the "Quikspin" is superior. If I ever was convinced, then I might give them a try.

RE: Questions Re: Quik Spin vanes?
 

c903 - I'm fully aware of the process and who is involved from an engineering standpoint, etc. Bottom line, when it's all said and done, what report are we all reading at the end of the project? Performance tests on that product. I want to see if my suggestions or theories were right or wrong and so does about everyone else on the team. Plain and simple, tests need to be ran.

What bothers me is simple, you make it sound like we are touting these as the "golden vane". If you read my posts in the other threads you will know this is not true. Personally, I can't say anything about grouping yet and I haven't tried to! I agree that my testing isn't complete. I SAY this in my thread. I can say that get 1 - 1 1/2" inches deeper penetration into a block target. I hunt Elk alot, so that makes them worth it to me.

It boils down to really one thing, with all do respect, your posts are 90% awesome. It's just that little extra flare and twisting of the words to make us all sound like we are touting the greatest archery innovation since the arrow... when we are not.

RE: Questions Re: Quik Spin vanes?
 

BowElkFreak:

I am assuming that "we" means that already there is some type of gathering of the aficionados of the vane. As for the touting of the greatest invention to come down the pike; maybe not, but the insinuation has been presented by some as a result of "backyard" testing. The reporting of personal testing has obviously had an influence, since some readers have stated that he or she is going to run right out and purchase the vanes.

Take for instance, your reporting that you experienced an overall greater penetration. Just that statement of one individual's experience and evaluation would lead some to believe that the vane alone generates greater penetration (no doubt, penetration is a very valid consideration.) However, a more thorough testing of the vanes revealed just the opposite. The testing determined that the velocity and KE of shafts mounted with "Quikspins" was less than the shaft mounted with other popular brand vane(s); to the extent that apparently NAP has come out with a broadhead that spins so that penetration is HOPEFULLY not greatly affected. Catch 22!!

All I am saying to the many new shooters is, before he or she succumbs to hype and just the personal experience of a few, read and listen to all the opinions before you decide. Then maybe, he or she might not end up wasting money, having too many disappointments, and having a tackle-box full of useless stuff.

A recent thread titled "Where does it end," was a very valid question and contained some posts that expressed some valid points regarding the rush to judgement and purchase of many of the "gadgets" on the market.

RE: Questions Re: Quik Spin vanes?
 

I'm sick of arguing opinions, testing procedures, where to to test or not to test, etc.. Time for more important stuff.

Just curious... where did you get this information (quote above)? With my setup I've only experienced deeper penetration and my groups with QuikSpins are consistanty higher than those without, even at a distance (about 2 inches at 40 yards). I would be curious about all the variables in their test. With my setup, I have only experienced deeper penetration. I have yet to have a single QuikSpin arrow be "shallower" than a normal vane. I've been shooting them every night for about a week.

One other note. Please be aware that the extra weight they provide is good for my setup. I can't shoot feathers. They are too light and just flat ruin my FOC (13.79%). With normal GoldTip vanes I'm sitting around 12.55% and with QuikSpins 11.17%. With my setup, these vanes are worth it. Others will have to judge for themselves.

RE: Questions Re: Quik Spin vanes?
 

Correct! And that is what an exchange of opinions is all about.

RE: Questions Re: Quik Spin vanes?
 

c903 - Any links on that other test about penetration? I'm still anxious to learn more about these as I continue to shoot them and take notes, etc.

RE: Questions Re: Quik Spin vanes?
 

Quikspin Test and Review:

Also notice the greater loss of speed (shedding of KE) downrange, and the change of FOC.

http://www.technology-for-hunting.co...nes_review.htm

Even with the pros and cons determined by the test, the vane appears to perform well enough to use, but maybe not greater enough for your average shooter to want to spend $20.00 for 36 vanes, when 36 vanes of another good type and brand can be purchased for $6.00, or $10.00 for 100 vanes.

RE: Questions Re: Quik Spin vanes?
 

Good stuff. They help my FOC as stated above and my KE is so high I have nothing to worry about. My KE is 72. If I lose a little here, I'm still doing just fine. Thanks for the link! :) One thing that stands out to me is they may be questionable for "whitetail" setups. I know most whitetail hunters don't pull alot of weight, have different setups, usually only use 100 gr broadheads and don't shoot long distances. This seems to be the general trend that I see in here. I'm an Elk and Mulie hunter that will shoot to 50 yards in a blink of an eye. They work with my setup, so I'm a fan on them and will pay for them. They are still cheap to me when you consider the overall cash spent on bow hunting in general.

Hopefully you can see why I like them? They have benefits for me and they give my setup some improved performance -- thus, I'm a believer in them.

RE: Questions Re: Quik Spin vanes?
 

I do not have to see (understand) why you like them. Your choices and your reasons for your choices are your prerogative. However, I have to ask; at the distance you are shooting and the bulk of the animal you are hunting, do you (already) truly believe that the vane provides such an advantage as to give up downrange velocity and penetration energy?

Not challenging your choice, I would say, in general; I know that I would not give up velocity and KE for a product that does not (yet) appear to afford greater advantages than what can be had for a lesser price.

If future tests were to eventually show that the "Quikspin" can undoubtedly and consistently tighten groups much greater than other fletching could at greater yardage, and undoubtedly improves accuracy, then maybe to give up velocity and penetrative energy makes sense.

However, the vanes are heavier, the vanes appear to cause a decrease in shaft speed, appear to cause a decrease in penetration energy to the point that a special broadhead might be required to offset the penetration loss, are not yet proven to be greatly durable, some say they are noisy, etc; all for a slight group improvement for some shooters, and at a cost approximately 4 times greater that a vane or fletch that does just as well and does not cause as great of loss of velocity and KE.

RE: Questions Re: Quik Spin vanes?
 

I may have been a little vague in my above post. What I'm trying to say is that with my setup and under my testing I'm seeing better penetration and slightly flatter arrow flight (my groups are a little higher with QuikSpins consistently, even at distance). I haven't seem major improvement with my groups, but some are better. I have to admit that my tightest groups have been with QuikSpins though. I would like to think alot of it is just me and added practice too. [8D]

I don't have all the toys to test speed all the time and all I can do is calculate KE and all that, etc. I can go shoot these things a bunch and go from there. Using that info, I don't know that I'm losing any KE. Maybe I'm missing something here, but my experience with penetration into a target should allow me to determine KE loss/gain (assuming that target is the same for all tests, etc.) I can say after a week of testing, I'm getting deeper penetration with them.

Again, heavier is good for me. No complaints there. Like I mentioned above, my FOC gets back under 12% using these. My bow is very well tuned, so maybe that slight difference is giving me slightly better arrow flight, thus increasing my penetration and "flatness". I don't have anyway of really testing that other than shooting over and over. Who knows, the only thing about the QuikSpins that could really be helping my setup is the added weight. I would like to test this theory down the road too. I can fix that cheaper than this! :)

Hunting season starts in a week for me. These other tests will have to wait until next year. It's time to go huntin'!

RE: Questions Re: Quik Spin vanes?
 

I don't want to get involved in the difference of opinion here but I can see where there may be another factor involved here other than KE which can help increase penetration. An arrow that is going in straighter will have better penetration than an arrow that is going in at an angle. Yes the quick spins may slow the arrow down thus reducing KE, however if the arrow is straighter, it could therefore allow the arrow to penetrate deeper. There I said it, now you can have the thread back. By the way, I switched to quick spins and love them.