Absolutely, Straightarrow, and I agree 100%. But that doesn't mean everyone should go around trying to give full "reports" on a product that could be misinterpreted or carry mis-information, or be conducted by a hugely biased individual that could either promote said product with false information to make it look good, or ultimately hurt the individual product without just cause. New and upcoming archers not knowing who wrote the report and what their credentials or objectives are could quickly become either confused with conflicting info, or worse yet, become also totally biased based on this mis-information. That is why I truly believe that we should keep comments and opinions limited to regular posting on the boards as individuals, and leave the full "reports" to those that have the least amount of biasm, with credentials and experience to back it up. Just my own thoughts, Pinwheel 12

Edited by - Pinwheel 12 on 03/03/2002 15:42:27

Frank, You better keep writting these reports! You, Jeff, and Matt are the first few that come to mind that actualy shoot and handle enough bows every year to make good comparisons, and not have to worry about feeding your faimly if someone doesn't like what you say.

TAKE YOUR KIDS HUNTING AND YOU WON'T BE HUNTING FOR YOUR KIDS

Frank:

If you are no longer going to post reports for the board, could you still e-mail them to those of us who are really interested in what you have to say?

I understand and appreciate both points of view, which makes it even more confusing. Anyone with the experience of Pinwheel or Len has my complete attention and respect when they have something to say. I just also enjoy reading about all of the "toys" that you more "agressive" bow buyers have acquired. Heck, you guys seemed to be having so much fun, that you convinced me to spend a few bucks and try the MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
(still can't say it) bow.

I agree that filling this forum with bow reports by almost everyone would not be for the best, but I would hate to see them end completely. I hope short, boring, humorous comments are still taken as intended though.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Avoid the inevitable until it is absolutely unavoidable!

At least untill such time that the technical experts post their reports on on this or other boards and STICK AROUND to answer questions and explain their technical info/opinions I for one hope they keep on coming from the ones that have been doin such a good job on them. I LIKE UM. Keep them coming guys.

Why do people buy bow's? Friends, advertisment's, Pro staff? I am 21 years old, and I read alot of the reports on here. They don't confuse me very much, they also don't affect me enough to buy a certain bow because of it. The only thing to get confused about with archery, is your own skill level, and perception of equipment. Local pro shop's can say what they want to sell a person a bow, or arrow's. If you go outside of the system, like to this BBS forum, this is where the enlightenment happen's. You can buy the best bow in the world, and beleive that you will shoot at a world class level. You could indeed do it, with supreme amounts of effort. Alot of people have to be realistic when they are looking for a bow though, the only way to be realistic is to understand what equipment you are putting in your hand's, and knowing how to use it affectively. I've seen people with alot of money, or an archery shop, buy bow after bow after bow. They will praise it up and down, then when it comes time to put the chips down on the table, it's the bow's, companies fault when they can't compete. Most every bow is as good as any other, with the acception of a few higher end companies. Not every archer is as good as every other archer.
I watch listen sometimes, to my co-worker trying to sell a bow, he will say anything to sell it. For example a person wanting to get into archery, comes into the store, he is an older gentlemin, I watch and listen as he is shown a Champion stratus, and then a mirage 33. Almost different end's of the spectrum, but delt with as though they are the same type of bow. Not knowing the brace heights, I check them out, Mirage 7&quot; from the book, who know's what it is really. Stratus I beleive was 7 1/2&quot;. Also looking at the extreme reflex in the riser, the Mirage 33 is not a begginers bow, Im sure I would get agreement on this. But I am only a worker @ this place, I can not step in the way and say jeez man what the heck are you doing. A person with 2years experience, that sell's equipment like he has 10. Now that is confusing. I would much rather get my info on here thank you very much. I trust people on here, that I don't even know, more then people I work with. This has to tell you something. I send people to this site, to read up. You see, Jeffs reports are informative, no BULL. He say's what he likes about it and what he dislikes and thats it. Same with you Pinwheel, you tell it how it is, you see we all have seperate opinions on here, and that's the only true way, to not be blinded by lies and deception about equipment suitabliliy, and to know whats going on in the archery world today. I bought a riser because of your opinion Pinwheel, and many others about Merlin quality, and Ben has also proved to be a very good person to do business with. After all this babbling, I think the point I am trying to get at here is, this place needs the reports, the opinon's, the arguments for sake of. For all of the posts, and threads and topics, we are doing just fine, and alot less confusion on here, then I know of in the pro shops and large sports stores. Thats my thoughts, Good shooting.
Dylan

>>>>--------o-->

Since we are giving our opinions here, I will give a small portion of mine.
First off, there was a time when I would buy the magazines to read bow reports by Emery and Norb. But, after I had shot 50 different bows, set up 1000 different bows, and shot in hundreds of 3-d and 600 rd. tourneys, it became very apparent to my feeble mind that draw force curves, hysteresis, and measuring tolerances were absolutely meaningless to me! And it was obvious to me that these things were basically meaningless to others, as well.
How many reports of Norb and Emery can you find that say a certain bow tested very high in their testing, yet not one top shooter in any type of archery competition could get them to perform to a desired level.
You need look no farther than the early days of really competitive 3-d, when high country dominated. Burly, Ulmer, Chappel, and some others shot those bows fairly well, I would say. If you would have checked tolerances on those bows(and I did) you would have sworn that they would not shoot two arrows into the same target, let alone the same 12 ring.
Some bow company`s had tolerances that were infinately better, yet if they were capable of shooting any better, I never saw it done at the IBO or ASA on a pro level. Nor at the state target rds.
Don`t get me wrong, I really enjoyed reading those indepth reports from those guys, and it seemed that both of them were really interested in bringing forth the facts. But again, IMHO those facts, as accurate as they may be, were basically meaningless when it comes to a human being toeing the line, and firing at whatever target tickled their fancy.
My personal opinion, I get way more enjoyment reading the reports put out here by Frank, JeffB, Matt, and some others.
These are guys doing it because they live it! They do it for nothing more than the enjoyment of possibly helping some fellow archers.
Hey, that`s just my opinion.