Some thoughts on the whisker buscuit
08-08-2004, 07:12 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Penhook Virginia
Posts: 446
Some thoughts on the whisker buscuit
I bought some Carbon Express 300 and a whisker buscuit today. I have been shooting CX 200 at 25.5 inches out my Outback at 64 lbs.- 28" with a Muzzy zero effect. I fletched the CX 300 with Duravanes with a little right helical and cut them to 27.5 inches. Installed the whisker buscuit. Shot it through paper at 5 steps and got a bullet hole. Moved back to 10 yards, then 15 yards and 20 yards. Got a bullet hole. Moved backed to about 10 steps just to check. I got a 3/8" left tear several times. This is kind of puzzling. I am not sure whats happening but will shoot some more tomorrow. I noticed the buscuit was a little noisey on the draw and seemed to have a little noise on the shot. The jury is still out on this rest. It seems to shoot well but I will need several more outings in the yard till I take the stud that holds the Muzzy off the bow
. This is the new buscuit with the adjustments and the brown and black whiskers. If anyone has some ideas on the left tear and noise, I'm all ears
. Don
. This is the new buscuit with the adjustments and the brown and black whiskers. If anyone has some ideas on the left tear and noise, I'm all ears. Don
08-08-2004, 08:44 PM
#3
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Albemarle, NC
Posts: 149
RE: Some thoughts on the whisker buscuit
I just recently went with a drop away rest but I use to use the WB. I got great groups using it though. I had the same results as you did DoninVa. However, I moved my rest to get bullet holes at 3, 6 and 10ft. I then had perfect arrow flight. I did have to make some minor adjustments when I tuned my broadheads but it was very close indeed. I shot Gold tips with right helical feathers. The WB is pretty tough on feathers!
08-09-2004, 01:11 AM
#5
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Penhook Virginia
Posts: 446
RE: Some thoughts on the whisker buscuit
Oneball61, I have 2 of the original Muzzy's (one on a Parker and one on a Bowtech) and the one for the Outback roller cam. They are very good rests but induce a small amount of hand shock at the shot. Not a lot but enough to be a concern. I am trying the buscuit due to all the good things I've heard on this forum and from people I know and due to my nature to tinker more than I should sometimes[&:]. Len in Maryland, Could you give a little input on how to reconize a 'false' tune and how you 'properly' tune the buscuit. Don
08-09-2004, 06:36 AM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Baltimore Maryland USA
Posts: 1,385
RE: Some thoughts on the whisker buscuit
Don:
Paper tuning at various distances, as you appear to have done, is one way to check. Another is to modify a WB to a very extreme way to check for such things as incorrect spine. This would require several extra 'disks'.
As far as the MZEs' causing vibration, that's a new one on me. We and our customers have never experienced this phenomenon. Could it be that your installation methods are incorrect; or, are your bows/hands THAT sensitive?
Paper tuning at various distances, as you appear to have done, is one way to check. Another is to modify a WB to a very extreme way to check for such things as incorrect spine. This would require several extra 'disks'.
As far as the MZEs' causing vibration, that's a new one on me. We and our customers have never experienced this phenomenon. Could it be that your installation methods are incorrect; or, are your bows/hands THAT sensitive?
08-09-2004, 09:02 AM
#7
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: .. NH USA
Posts: 970
RE: Some thoughts on the whisker buscuit
Whisker Biskits are great hunting rests, and far better than any drop away IMHO. With full containment, you never, ever, have to take your eyes off of the intended target to make sure your arrow is where it is supposed to be. Plus, it is simple and rugged. I do not find that with extra moving parts, lanyards, slides, this, that, and whatever.
You can get a false tune with ANY rest, much as Len stated. I find the WB no harder to tune than any other rest and far easier than some dropaways... As far as accuracy goes, ask Jim Despart about the WB---he shot a 440-something on a 450 Vegas round last spring, and shot higher than he had with other rests too in the process. They work, and work well.
It took me a long time to come around on the WB, but they are awesome for their intended use and my hunting bows all now have them installed. Now that they came out with the B2 biskit, they are even better than they were last year. Drop-aways have their place just like anything else, but when hunting it is best to keep things simple and sturdy IMHO. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
You can get a false tune with ANY rest, much as Len stated. I find the WB no harder to tune than any other rest and far easier than some dropaways... As far as accuracy goes, ask Jim Despart about the WB---he shot a 440-something on a 450 Vegas round last spring, and shot higher than he had with other rests too in the process. They work, and work well.
It took me a long time to come around on the WB, but they are awesome for their intended use and my hunting bows all now have them installed. Now that they came out with the B2 biskit, they are even better than they were last year. Drop-aways have their place just like anything else, but when hunting it is best to keep things simple and sturdy IMHO. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
08-09-2004, 06:42 PM
#8
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Penhook Virginia
Posts: 446
RE: Some thoughts on the whisker buscuit
Len, I'm not sure about how sensitive my hands are . I should have said , I noticed the shock on the Muzzy for the roller cam bow, my Outback. To prove it was the rest, I took the Muzzy off and installed a trophy Taker and the shock went away. As I stated, it wasn't much but with the Outback, which has near zero shock, it was noticeable. When the bow is shot, the Muzzy is driven down fairly hard. If you want to prove this theory, just stick your thumb out when the bow is shot and it will become VERY clear, OUCH. I still feel the Muzzy is a good rest. The one for the cable guard, IMO, is a better design. There are three things I found to be a design error in the roller cam model.
1) The arm is two close to your thumb and will whack you if you let it wander.
2) When you draw the bow, the cable that pulls the arm doesn't pull straight down. It pulls at an angle which puts side torque on the arm. This may not be an issue but it doesn't look like a good thing.
3) The cable attachment on recoil contacts the other cable that goes thru the roller.
I feel I set this rest up properly. I followed the instructions in the tape and was able to get good tune with the first shot, except for a slight nock high adjustment. I will not hesitate to put the Muzzy back on if the buscuit acts unruley. I still have the stud for the Muzzy, and the cord served for the Trophy Taker on my bow . Don
. I should have said , I noticed the shock on the Muzzy for the roller cam bow, my Outback. To prove it was the rest, I took the Muzzy off and installed a trophy Taker and the shock went away. As I stated, it wasn't much but with the Outback, which has near zero shock, it was noticeable. When the bow is shot, the Muzzy is driven down fairly hard. If you want to prove this theory, just stick your thumb out when the bow is shot and it will become VERY clear, OUCH. I still feel the Muzzy is a good rest. The one for the cable guard, IMO, is a better design. There are three things I found to be a design error in the roller cam model. 1) The arm is two close to your thumb and will whack you if you let it wander.
2) When you draw the bow, the cable that pulls the arm doesn't pull straight down. It pulls at an angle which puts side torque on the arm. This may not be an issue but it doesn't look like a good thing.
3) The cable attachment on recoil contacts the other cable that goes thru the roller.
I feel I set this rest up properly. I followed the instructions in the tape and was able to get good tune with the first shot, except for a slight nock high adjustment. I will not hesitate to put the Muzzy back on if the buscuit acts unruley. I still have the stud for the Muzzy, and the cord served for the Trophy Taker on my bow . Don
08-09-2004, 10:10 PM
#9
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Baltimore Maryland USA
Posts: 1,385
RE: Some thoughts on the whisker buscuit
Don:
What anyone uses on their bow is entirely a personal matter. The degree of positive and negative reaction is usually dependent on the quality of assembly and tuning. I've seen a lot of negative reaction on the MZE and can tell you that 90%+ of the problems were assembly oriented. Many PRO Shops throughout the country won't even fool with the MZE, while many who do fool with them wind up screwing them up. Yes, there are many who can do the job right and many individuals do an effective job as well. What we usually see come into the shop are faulty installations. The owners come to us because they know we are quite capable with this particular rest. We even built a machine/tools to enable us to properly set up this rest and many others.
We have learned how to correctly install them to the point that they outsell every other drop-away or WB in my shop by about 100 to 1. I even bought a few of about every drop-away and WB known and feel that I'll get stuck with most of them at the end of the year.
The WB is valued by many as somewhat of a 'no brainer' and is the reason a lot of shops like them. At least most think of it as a 'no brainer'. Does it hold the arrow in place? Yes. Does it give most a false sense of tune? Yes. Does it have an affect on fletchings? Yes. Does it slow the arrow down? Yes. Can it come out of adjustment? Yes. Can it freeze up? Yes. Will many contest these statements? Yes.
After all, anyone who willfully selects any form of archery equipment always thinks it is the BEST. I try my best to NOT promote any particular product in my shop and am regularly called down for doing this. It is my contention that any customer should be given all the facts about all competing products so that an intelligent selection can be made based on the customer's needs/requirements. The fact that I have 10+ different drop-away rests and all the forms of WB lends credence to this statement. The fact that my customers keep preferring the MZE 100 to 1 over all the rest has to mean something.
Have I noticed your concerns about the MZE? Yes. Number 1 is a real concern and, IMPO, the others have not posed a real problem from what I've seen.
I'd still like to see your bow with the MZE installed. We've installed a lot of them on Outbacks and have not experienced any problems such as what you describe. Good luck with your WB.
What anyone uses on their bow is entirely a personal matter. The degree of positive and negative reaction is usually dependent on the quality of assembly and tuning. I've seen a lot of negative reaction on the MZE and can tell you that 90%+ of the problems were assembly oriented. Many PRO Shops throughout the country won't even fool with the MZE, while many who do fool with them wind up screwing them up. Yes, there are many who can do the job right and many individuals do an effective job as well. What we usually see come into the shop are faulty installations. The owners come to us because they know we are quite capable with this particular rest. We even built a machine/tools to enable us to properly set up this rest and many others.
We have learned how to correctly install them to the point that they outsell every other drop-away or WB in my shop by about 100 to 1. I even bought a few of about every drop-away and WB known and feel that I'll get stuck with most of them at the end of the year.
The WB is valued by many as somewhat of a 'no brainer' and is the reason a lot of shops like them. At least most think of it as a 'no brainer'. Does it hold the arrow in place? Yes. Does it give most a false sense of tune? Yes. Does it have an affect on fletchings? Yes. Does it slow the arrow down? Yes. Can it come out of adjustment? Yes. Can it freeze up? Yes. Will many contest these statements? Yes.
After all, anyone who willfully selects any form of archery equipment always thinks it is the BEST. I try my best to NOT promote any particular product in my shop and am regularly called down for doing this. It is my contention that any customer should be given all the facts about all competing products so that an intelligent selection can be made based on the customer's needs/requirements. The fact that I have 10+ different drop-away rests and all the forms of WB lends credence to this statement. The fact that my customers keep preferring the MZE 100 to 1 over all the rest has to mean something.
Have I noticed your concerns about the MZE? Yes. Number 1 is a real concern and, IMPO, the others have not posed a real problem from what I've seen.
I'd still like to see your bow with the MZE installed. We've installed a lot of them on Outbacks and have not experienced any problems such as what you describe. Good luck with your WB.
08-10-2004, 03:07 AM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903
RE: Some thoughts on the whisker buscuit
I try my best to NOT promote any particular product in my shop and am regularly called down for doing this. It is my contention that any customer should be given all the facts about all competing products so that an intelligent selection can be made based on the customer's needs/requirements. The fact that I have 10+ different drop-away rests and all the forms of WB lends credence to this statement. The fact that my customers keep preferring the MZE 100 to 1 over all the rest has to mean something.
If your going to carry CAP's product then give it a honest chance with the customers. Set it up for them , tune it , let them shoot it awhile , then let them decide which rest they want. Without any influence I know which one they'll choose. I have a MZE for my Icon , it's a nice rest but it's back in the tackle box now until after hunting season.
I'm at the shop everyday and I dont see any of the problems you describe with the WB.[&:] It out sells all other archery product (not just rest) big time , we've gone through two cases of just the new B2 replacement biscuit since July 27th.