Is my arrow too heavy?
 

Ok a little background. I have a PSE FireFlite, 60lb draw, 28" I am shooting carbon express terminator hunters 4560, 125 grain broadhead (total wt = 477 grains)

I was doing a little practicing tonight. at 20 yards i was dead on, i tried 30 yards with the same pin - over 12" of drop. Is that excessive or average? I dont know my exact arrow speed, havent had time to get to a shop with a chrono to test it but that seemed like a lot of drop to me.

I have read several posts where the recommended weight for hunting arrows is 400+. If i switch to a 100 grain head i would be right around 450 grains but my FOC would change from 10% to 8%, should i be concerned about that?


and finally, i am probably going to a 70# bow next year, i am thinking of picking up some of the terminator hunters this year in the 6075 size to use this year and next. is this too much arrow for my setup?



Sorry about the dissertation, any help will be appreciated

thanks

RE: Is my arrow too heavy?
 

Krotalus! this is just my opinion ,but I would say that your arrow is too heavy ,I've been told the same and I'm shooting a 04 BowTech dually at #60 and 28" draw .But I seriously think that you don't need to shoot 125gr heads 100gr should be sufficient .I'd definetly go to a lighter arrow and broadhead for your setup you would have no problems at all.I shoot the gold Tip3D pro's and they wiegh 356 including my 75 gr field point,so with my broadhead my total wieght is 381gr and I plan on using them for moose and deer without batting an eye. But if your dropping 12" in 10yrds that's telling me your over arrowed. I shoot my Gold Tips 10 to 30 yrds with a single pin.
I have a set of 6075 terminator hunters and I've been told that for my setup that they are too heavy and to expect close range shot's.

nubo

RE: Is my arrow too heavy?
 

If you went with 100 gr bh's and 4" feathers you would be at 434gr arrow and 10.3 foc. 5" feathers would be 437 and 10 foc. Take a look at Jacksons Archery website the foc tool is kinda cool.

RE: Is my arrow too heavy?
 

Your arrow is probably too heavy. If your a yard off you could wound the deer.
I also have the PSE Fire-Flite. Good bow isn't it?:)

RE: Is my arrow too heavy?
 

i might have to look into the Gold Tips, they seem pretty reasonably priced too

using the 5575, with 125 grain head and 4" vanes gives me 418 grains and an FOC of 10.2


these would also remove the problem of replacing all my arrows when i go to a 70lber next season.

RE: Is my arrow too heavy?
 

there you go ,i think you've found your answer. good luck and hope thing's work out .
I would still consider going to a 100gr Broadhead though for this season and wwhen you move to #70 then go to the 125gr head.

nubo

RE: Is my arrow too heavy?
 

I am shooting a 449 grain arrow at 63lb at 230ft/sec do you think thats to heavy? I'm going to crank it up to 70 soon so I should gain almost 20 ft/sec.

RE: Is my arrow too heavy?
 

The only problem i saw with the 100 grain head is that it drops me to 7.9% FOC, to get back over 10% i would need to use 3" feathers.

I use a Drop Zone so i have been contemplating trying a helical fletch, maybe a 3" helical feather is the way to go.


i can see where i am going to have to start making my own arrows :)

RE: Is my arrow too heavy?
 

Your arrow is not too heavy , I shoot 28" and 60 lbs . Last year I shot terminators 6075s with 100 grain tips , with feathers they weighed around 480 grains , I killed 2 deer with them . This year Im switching to beman matrix around 400 grains , because thy fly better for me .

RE: Is my arrow too heavy?
 

Does the arrow hit where it's supposed to when you aim at the 30 yard target with your 30 yard pin? Then your arrow is not too flippin' heavy!!

Can you tell the difference between 20, 25 and 30 yards when you're shooting 3D? Can you judge the distance and choose the correct sight pin and aiming point so as to keep the arrow in the kill zone? Then your SKILLS are good enough that your arrow arrow is not too heavy.

One chooses Terminators for POWER AND PENETRATION, not for speed and ultra-flat trajectory. The lighter you go, the more speed and flatter trajectory you get, but the less power and penetration. If you've got power to burn, then you can safely use it to gain speed and still get good penetration on the animal. If you've got a low energy setup (light draw weight, short draw length low efficiency bow, or any combination of such), then you have to maximize your arrow's power.

If you want to use one pin out to 30 yards, set the pin to hit dead on at 27 yards, then learn where to hold a tad low for shootin' at stuff inside 20 yards. That applies to any arrow weight. Lighter, faster arrows will reduce the amount of hold-under you have to use under 20 yards and MIGHT give you a couple extra yards of effective range on the tail end. As long as they've got the power to do the job.

Every time I hear the argument that light, fast arrows and flat trajectories reduce the need for precise distance judgement, I cringe. It's true, to a certain extent, but the implication is that people will be taking shots when they are unsure of the distance. Is that deer 32 yards out or 40 yards? If you don't know, that is a no-shoot situation.

RE: Is my arrow too heavy?
 

Let me reiterate qwhat Art and ijimmy have said, your arrows are not too heavy. Put on another pin and site it in for 30 yards.

RE: Is my arrow too heavy?
 

I dont mind using a different pin at 30 yrds, what has me concerned is if that amount of drop is translating into an excessive loss of energy.


My first course of action is to try 100 grain points, i want to see how much of an improvement they are over the 125s.


Thanks for the input guys, i am still learning and sometimes there are too many variables to consider.

RE: Is my arrow too heavy?
 

Quite the opposite! Heavier arrows start off with more energy and momentum at the bow and they RETAIN their energy far better than light arrows downrange. Assuming they're shot from the same bow, a 500 gn arrow will hit harder at 30 yards than a much lighter and faster 350 gn arrow will.

RE: Is my arrow too heavy?
 

I was poking around Gold Tips site and found that they have thier own FOC and weight calculator which gave me different results than bowjackson.com I think i will pick up some of the Gold Tips and test them along side the terminators with both 125 and 100 grain tips.


Thanks again to everyone for thier input, it is greatly appreciated

RE: Is my arrow too heavy?
 

The amount of drop does not equate to loss of engery. Matter of fact just the opposite. the heavier arrow will have more momentum at 30 yards than a ligher arrow. More Momentum is a good thing. More momemtum means the arrow will impact the target more aggressively than a lighter arrow with less momentum. When hunting an aggressive impact is a good thing.

Just learn to shoot what ya got. Learn to judge yardage and your on your way to being a complete hunter.

Websites are full of people trying to take short cuts buying faster and flatter so they don't have to jude yardage.
I suppose if they could go out and buy, aim, they would.
(My humble Opion)
Seems everyone thinks they can go out and buy equipment that will elimate the need to work at the fundematals of bow hunting. Well not true. slow heavy arrows were killing white tail deer for many years before there was even a fast light rig on the planet.
Guess what your 477( which is not really heavy by the way) grain arrow shot from your bow will kill a deer just fine. All you have to learn to do, is tune the bow and arrow combination, learn to hit what you are aiming at up to your maximum range (which only you can know.) then after you have learned, all you have to do is put the arrow where it is suppose to go when the time comes.
Some of us have worked many years to accomplish this.

good luck.

RE: Is my arrow too heavy?
 

thanks Bees, i am still in the infancy of my bowhunting career and still looking for the right combinations of things. not necessarily looking for a shortcut, just trying to figure out what works and what doesnt.




that statement is what has me questioning all of the arrow related issues. How do i know when my "proficiency" extends beyond my bow's effective range. Sure I could practice everyday and be able to lob arrows into the bull at 100 yards, but what good is that if the arrow isnt carrying enough energy to drop the deer.

my arrow carries X ft-lbs of energy at launch, how do i estimate how much it is carrying at different ranges? do i need to set a chrono up in front of the target at each yardage and take speed measurements?

my engineering background is starting to show through, am i completely overanalyzing this?


thanks again, i think i need to give my brain a rest and just go shoot :)

RE: Is my arrow too heavy?
 

I don't know what your KE would be downrange, there are several different programs that will calculate that for you fairly accurately. In my own humble opinion, any modern compound, which you have, will kill a deer just fine if you hit him. Your arrow weight with a good, quality broadhead will be incredibly effective, if you hit the boiler room. Your penetration will be measured in inches of dirt on the other side. My arrows are currently about 440 grain (which I consider on the light side). I am currently pulling about 65#'s. I thought about going heavier, but maybe next year, as I have spent enough money this year already (new bow). I do have to be careful with yardage, but I know my limits. I use a Magnus Stinger 125 and I can't wait to get after elk and muley's in 5 weeks. I am not worried about the energy, just the accuracy at the moment of truth. I know if I do my job, my equipment will do its job. Get comfortable with what you shoot and get after 'em!!

JMAC

PS As an engineer as well, I do find myself going WAY overboard with my equipment, to the point that I sometimes think more than shoot. I have since seen the light..:D

RE: Is my arrow too heavy?
 

I think more people should be asking "are my arrows to light".The AMO standard everyone used for years was 9 gp#.Your arrows are 8 gp#.When the IBO speed craze hit everyone started shooting 5-6 gp#.Your arrows are fine.The 6075 will be too stiff at 60#



CB