Poluke

ArthurP - Thank you for responding - I don't even know what the weight of these arrows are. Right now "spine" is a term I have not quite figured out. I'm into shooting arrows, I thought a guy would just go and get some and shoot em, but now I am finding out there are a lot of things to consider. The Vapors are ACC (aluminum carbon ?).

Our next shoot is in June, outdoor range, I'm not sure of how many targets are out there. One shot only at each target. Our indoor setup is actually 20 lanes wide with two go rounds at different targets from each lane (huh?). I'm having a great time learning to judge distances, only shot one no score target, a buffalo at 45 yds don'tcha know[8D], I missed the whole thing, a life sized target!. Anyway my concern is whether my arrows are getting weak and I need to replace them or can I get by for now before hunting season.

Arthur P

Poluke, 'spine', as applied to arrows, is really a misnomer. Spine actually refers to the orientation of the arrow where the arrow is stiffer than at any other place around the shaft. That still applies to wood and carbon arrows, because they do have a spine. So do aluminum and fiberglass, but to a much lesser extent. You often can't even find the spine on an aluminum arrow.

What we really mean when we say spine is the stiffness of the arrow. We place the arrow across a pair of supports, suspend a 2-pound weight in the center of the arrow and measure deflection - how much it bends - in thousandths of an inch. Obviously, the less the arrow bends, the stiffer it is. We got the term 'spine' from the old days of wood arrows when you oriented the arrow to check it's stiffness across the spine of the shaft.

The things that affect how stiff the arrow needs to be are: draw weight, draw length, cam type (round wheels, medium cam, hard cam), release method (release or fingers) arrow length and tip weight. You have to take all those things into account to determine what size arrow you need for your bow.

Most arrow charts are set up with draw weight on one side and arrow length across the top. You find your draw weight and follow that line across to your arrow length and Bingo! that's your arrow. Problem with that is, you have to know what tip weight and cam type they used to set up that chart. If they set it up using a mild cam and 75 grain tips, and you shoot a hard cam and 125 gn tips, you'll likely need to go at least 15 pounds heavier on the chart to get the arrow you need.

Easton and Beman have very good interactive arrow selection programs where you plug in your information and it spits out suggested arrow spines. You can then look up the deflection for those arrows and maybe correlate that info to other brands. Say you need an arrow with .340" deflection, you can find out which arrows from other manufacturers have .340" deflection and you should be close.

Hope that helps.

Black Frog

All this spine talk here and over on A.T. has pushed me over the top. I cranked up the milling machine at work and am in the process of putting together a nice spine tester w/ .0005" resolution. I'll post some pics in week or so when done.

Rangeball

Poluke, I can't speak highly enough about the ACCs, but when was the last time you checked your bow tune? I got the impression from your post that you got your bow 3 months ago and have been shooting a bunch since. Perhaps your problem is as simple as your string/cable settling in and stretching, and your tune job needs a good tweeking? Something to check into...

Arthur P

Yeah... That too. I got so wrapped up in the topic that I forgot about that part of the equation. [&:]

Poluke

ARTHUR P - I will go search somemore - I have access to a good pro shop and good guys to boot, I wanted to do it on my own but it looks like trial and error is just not the way to go with todays standards.

Rangeball - I just got (last week) new cables and string for the thing from my pro guys, I really didn't even think about it until now but I did notice yesterday that it seems the "wall" is moving back or my release is stretching and just about the time my arrows started wandering. Man I feel like such a putz . plus my loop has almost made a full 360 degree turn around the string. The clues are there but the shooter isn't paying too much good attention.

SO MUCH TO LEARN SO LITTLE TIME! I've got a shoot coming up, outdoor 3D, I wan't to be ready.

Thanks for the info guys I'll check back witcha later.

PS: "The Thing" my PSE Stingray has a single cam "NRG" letoff is at 80%.

Poluke

Arthur and Rangeball - I did some reading today (4/8/04), from the internet and the from the Easton charts. I found that the way my arrows are set up, according to the Easton charts and the arrow weight calculator (from the internet). The Blackhawk Vapor ACA 3490and Easton Superlite ACC spine siz 3-60, are one grain in difference.

It was snowing here today and couldn't get away from work early enough to visit my Pro guys. I suspect the string is stretching some and I probably need a quick twist or two to fix (?) the problem. Thanks again for your direction.

pinesap

Just how precise are we getting here. If I shoot maybe 20 to 30 yrds what am I going to see different with aluminum to carbon? I know for a fact that I have shot my goldtips through the garage door and into a metal chair, no damage to golgtip. also hit a rototiller made a hole in the metal no damage to the goldtip. I have hit the top of targets, deflected no damage to the goldtip. I can't see the advantage to aluminum. I know the goldtips have saved me alot of money over the years. It's like anything else you either like them or you don't. I would like to see someone straightin a bent aluminum arrow I know you mean the spline but once there bent good luck. Maybe I'm not looking at this right, but I'm shooting goldtips or some carbon arrow. JMO.

tuffy54

For me I've been using easton carbon evolutions for shooting and hunting, supposely. The beman treebark/evolution and the easton c2 are the same arrows. But I've been doing some checking around and I found that gold tips make probably. The best carbon arrows out there right now, but it's all what you prefer, and willing to spend. They are up there in price, they have some cheapies too. For me I'am happy using easton arrows and I'll probably keep using them. In fact they are not going to manufacture the evolutions anymore. Which is the arrow I like but I don't know why. I'am not sure, I guess they were not selling to well, but like I said it's all what you prefer. Some like alluminum because you don't have to worry about particles. Like in carbon arrows if it breaks in what ever animal you are hunting. But alluminum do break and bend very easy, trust me it sucks. But I'am happy with carbon arrows they are definately tuff... take care.

Tuffy
Sgt/U.S.M.C.

Poluke

I just got a product flyer today from NAP. I went ahead and ordered the QuickSpin vanes at 8.99 a dozen!!! got a hat too 'cause I am going to use the Spitfires for hunting, real tree camo. I am going to stick with the Blackhawk Vapor 3490's as the Easton ACC's 3-60's are quite a bit more expensive, about 30 bucks more a doz. Oh well I'm retired and what is a poor boy to do?