The difference between Cam & 1/2 and 1 cam
 

What is the difference between the cam & 1/2 system and the 1 cam bows? What are the advantages/disadvangtages of each?

RE: The difference between Cam & 1/2 and 1 cam
 

The cam and a half system has roughly symmetrical cams which tends to balance out the system more so than the original small round idler and larger single cam design.

With the cam and a half you have the top cam "slaved" to the bottom cam so whatever happens to the top cam happens to the bottom cam as well.

Nock travel on the cam and a half is reported to be better but then I guess that depends on who you talk to and how they set up the test...;).

The cam and a half is reported to be more forgiving and more tuneable.

That is all I can think of off the top of my head this early on a Monday so forgive me....;)

RE: The difference between Cam & 1/2 and 1 cam
 

I just started shooting a Cam 1/2 bow this winter and so far, I think the reports may be correct. It does seem easier to tune, but then again, I really never had too much difficulty tuning a single either. This of course may just be my particular setup that I don't have as much trouble getting a good tune.

One thing I will say about the Cam 1/2 of Hoyt's. I dont think the solid wall is as good on them as it is on a solo. Its not bad at all, but I like the solid wall feeling of the singles a little better in that regard.

RE: The difference between Cam & 1/2 and 1 cam
 

I am in agreement with you on that one MM. There is definitely a separate feel between the two styles of cams in question. I wonder why they do not install more positive draw stops on the Cam and a Half eccentrics.

RE: The difference between Cam & 1/2 and 1 cam
 

Frank, it would be nice if they did. I haven't shot another brand of Hybrid, so I have nothing to compare it to.

Maybe because since the eccentrics are tied together in a somewhat dual cam fashion, if one comes slightly out of whack you need to make up for it somehow. That somehow is stopping it with the cables and creating a slight sponge effect to compensate. I don't know, just a thought. If both eccentrics where using the limb, like the Bowtechs do their solos, it would be kind of a weird situation.

Make any sense?

RE: The difference between Cam & 1/2 and 1 cam
 

Sure it makes sense. Both cams would need to be timed correctly and in synch. with one another (like a dual cam) in order for a double draw stop peg to work effectively.

RE: The difference between Cam & 1/2 and 1 cam
 

For those only drawing/shooting a cam.5 system and making their observations on hybrids simply from that one system, I suggest you draw others such as a Merlin Omega hybrid system. Rock solid wall that can easily compare to the solos, plus it offers straight and level nock travel to boot, making it very easy to tune a variety of arrow spines in minutes.

Unlike the cam.5 which everyone is using as a benchmark of hybrids and really shouldn't be because the cam.5 is IMO more like a pure twin than it is a hybrid with it's eliptical cabletrack, the Merlin Omega and Darton CPS, (along with a few other"true" hybrids) offer a round cable track on the top idler/cam that allows true straight and level nock travel at all drawlengths and a smoother transfer of energy to boot.(more comfortable) I really thought Hoyt was going to update to this type of system in 2004 but they opted not to...I suspect they will change it up next year to be more in line with the "true" hybrid design because of it's additional attributes.

OK, back to original question---

Difference between hybrids and solos is that "true" hybrids effectively combine the best attributes of both solos and twins all into one system. They do not exhibit poor dynamic balance as solos do due to differing size/weight cams/idlers and thus differing rates of rotation and limbtip travel. True Hybrids have symmetrical cam and string profiles much like twins but without the timing issues associated with them because they are slaved-- therefore they exhibit "set and forget" tuning. They do not have super long strings that stretch easily, they're very smooth on the draw also much like a twin . They are simply a better mousetrap IMHO---evolution continues.

More and more manufacturers and archers themselves are figuring this out too----eventually I believe we will see the hybrid take over as the #1 system simply due to it's attributes over both twins and solos. Next year there will be even more companies adding hybrids to their lineups, and others will be refining theirs even more........as stated, evolution continues.;) Good shooting, Pinwheel 12

RE: The difference between Cam & 1/2 and 1 cam
 

I disagree with the first part of this statement. Although not as bad as older twins, the Omega cams are definitely not "rock solid" in my opinion. They are not equal to many solos out there, if a hard wall that absolutely won't move, is what you want. Fortunately for myself, I prefer the slightly mushy wall.

RE: The difference between Cam & 1/2 and 1 cam
 

SA-

What bow are you drawing and holding, the Max-Xtreme? I respect your opinion but this bow is as solid as most anything I have ever drawn to date this side of a rapid cam twin with two wallbanger modules. The Omega has a built-in wallbanger on the lower module, and is easily as solid as any solo made because it works on basically the same principle in this respect and even moreso because it has the tabs on the module where most solos do not.

I couldn't believe what I read so I went over and just drew a Merlin Max Xtreme hard into the stop, along with a Merlin Hunters' Quest 35, Diamond Undertaker, Parker Hunter Mag, Kodiak BL32, and Mathews LX, and the Max-Xtreme was as solid at full draw as any of them and in fact better than some of them? When they are setup to specs they're superb, nothing remotely "mushy" about them IMHO.;) Good shooting, Pinwheel 12

RE: The difference between Cam & 1/2 and 1 cam
 

Dead on , I compleatly agree with this statement , have owned both systems , I can attest to what Pinwheel is saying here , it is VERY true , not a product endorsment . Allmost every other company that offers a hybreed , is configured in this way , hoyt is the BIG exception . Last count at about 7 or 8 companies that have " seen the light" .

RE: The difference between Cam & 1/2 and 1 cam
 

Hmmm, sounds like someones a little partial...;)

I don't have any problems with my Hoyt Cam 1/2 wall, as you can definitly tell there is a wall there, but I am still undecided as to whether I like it better or worse than the feel of the solo's or not.

I am beginning to learn to shoot back tension.. fun fun!! One thing I seem to like about a slight mushy wall with this bow is that I can hit the draw stop at anchor and use the slight mush to pull through the shot. Of course right now with me just learning BT, its quite an adventure for me.:D Lets just say its hit and miss.

RE: The difference between Cam & 1/2 and 1 cam
 

I've shot all their models with the omega cam with the exception of the Super Nova. When the stop on the lower cam module hits the string, I can easily pull another 1/2" or a bit more. If you have a draw stop that hits the limb, there is no pulling through it without moving the limb, which is very difficult to do. When using back tension and pulling, this becomes very obvious to me. Several of the guys shooting Merlins at the local shop have said the exact same thing to me. Don't get me wrong. I don't see this as a negative. I don't like the super hard walls I've felt on some single cams. In fact, I sold my Diamond because the wall was simply too hard for my liking. The other night when the six of us were shooting the Max Extreme, the 3 that preferred the Machete, specifically liked the harder wall.

I suggest you take do this test (I have) Get somone to pull the max extreme until the string hits the draw stop. Then have them pull into the stop with about 10-15 over the holding weight. Notice the movement on the lower cam. It's quite easy to make it move more an inch or so. I'm surprised you haven't noticed this. It caught my attention on the very first Merlin I ever shot (I've only shot the Omega cams). For me, this makes a back tension release easier and it just feels better to me.

RE: The difference between Cam & 1/2 and 1 cam
 

Straightarrow , I agree with you on the wall . The bow with the most "solid " back wall I've ever shot was a pse single cam . Of the hybred's out there that I have shot , the darton's seem to have a slightly more "solid" wall than some of the others . I do not shoot backtension , and the wall is not a critical factor for me .

RE: The difference between Cam & 1/2 and 1 cam
 

I don't see it guys---I just went back and did exactly as you said SA, and I can get virtually identical "extra" movement from both hybrids and solos when hitting the stops on each and then putting more force into each. Yes, they all get between 3/8"-1/2" extra movement, they are hitting the cables to stop, and the ones with the longest "tab" are the ones that are the most solid---hybrid or solo--same principle..

Nothing "partial", just stating what I personally feel. No biggie.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one guys, that's all..;) Good shooting, Pinwheel 12

RE: The difference between Cam & 1/2 and 1 cam
 

It's so unfortunate we have NO Merlin Dealers here in Southern Ontario. The Max-Extreme is definitely a bow I would want to shoot one day soon.
I've even written to the guys in England, had a few correspondence with Chris & Claire and was happy to learn that they're working on setting something up in Canada.
In the meanwhile, I'm shooting the new Champion Scoprion (ETS)--C/P/S cam plus. This bow has a rock solid wall, when it stop, it STOPS!!!
The only qualm I have is there's almost no valley, there's no room to wince as the arrow takes off almost on its own!!!
I can honestly add, that the 80% let off as advertised, is not really what it is, you're looking at about 5% less--but that's fine (for me).
I think as Pinwheel has mentioned the cam.5/hybrid bows will again revolutionize the industry in the right direction. IMO.