pinesap

I think you on the right track taking pictures of yourself. That can show you things your doing right and wrong. you may be able to help someone else shoot but can't tell what your doing wrong yourself. The pictures should help with your form. Keep with it and keep asking questions it's the only way to learn.

Elkcrazy8

Woah!!! Get an arrow on that bow. If you hit the release, Better to fix a hole in the wall and not your bow......

Buckfevr

Looks like an inch long.

Len in Maryland

Now I see why I try to stay out of these types of threads. You're wrong no matter what you say.

I think PW12 has given more to this forum than many others. His benevolence has been more than should be expected of someone in his position. What is his position? It is that of a PROfessional in this industry. How much did he pay for his knowledge? How many hours of schooling and OJT did he have to endure? What did the 'tools' of his trade cost him? What will he gain by giving all of his PRO knowledge to everyone in the world? Can he feed his family on what the internet doesn't pay? How will he hurt other PRO Shops in the industry by giving away free information on the 'net'? How much would I hurt PW12's sales if I taught his customers how to fix their bow so that they don't need him? Contrary, how will he hurt my business? If we hurt each other's business and the businesses of hundreds of other PRO Shops across the country, who really benefits and who looses? The ones who don't have to pay the cost for PROfessional knowledge gain and the PRO Shops starve - one by one!

Consider other PROfessions. Would a Doctor diagnose your illness on the 'net' or even over the phone? Heck no, they want you to visit their office. Would a plumber or electrician teach you how to fix your household problems over the 'net' or the phone? I doubt it very much unless he's your personal friend. This list could go on and on.

I will admit, however, that there are certain teaching programs conducted by large manufacturers. But, the instructors are getting PAID by those large manufacturers. Do you think that these manufacturers don't 'manipulate' their payment out of the classes? They will find ways to PAY for this service. I could go into a hundred 'hidden agenda' examples.

What can you do to get PROfessional archery service in your community? After all, that seems to be the basis for demanding PROfessional service on these forums. Ask your Dealer if he/she has ever attended an ATA Show and attended one or more of their seminars. These seminars are FREE to Dealers and the information is given by PROfessional Dealers. I know because I freely give my time to give seminars every year. If your Dealer doesn't take advantage of this service, blame them - not PW12 or any other Dealer on this forum who is trying to make a basic living for his/her family. The long hours and small profits have long been hard to swallow. If we, as PRO Shop owners, continue to give away everything we've ever paid for, we'll all soon be looking for a job in your PROfession.

Now let's consider the question of this thread. An archer/hunter puts his picture on the screen. It is a poor picture, only from one angle and at a distance. He expects/hopes to get PROfessional answers. I, as a PROfessional, would be foolish to attempt to analyze everything about him from one still photograph. Is he cheating on his foot position? Is he compensating his arm, head, back, wrist, waist, shoulder angle, hip angle, etc.? Is the guy even putting his release on properly? I could go on and on about critique issues? This would take a lot of my time on this and other forums and I may never hit on his real problem. I might fix one problem that causes another problem that is not visible. What would be gained? I just took valuable time to work with ONE person in a possible endless circle. I might confuse this guy to a point where he gets totally frustrated. Then again, I might fix his problem and it didn't cost him a cent! Man, that really helped my bottom line and put food on my table.How many others would I have to help to keep certain forum members happy?

What I'm saying is that too many expect too much out of certain people. I give my time freely and willingly. It is up to me to decide when and where I must draw the line. If I am ridiculed by not wanting to share all that I know, then it will only cause me to ignore most requests for information. I used to give out more information than I do now and it was NEVER enough. If anyone tries to flame me for this philosophy/thinking/way of doing business, it will only cost others on this and other forums from information that I freely give.

Discussions about arrow technology, bow technology, broadhead technology, release technology, string technology, etc., will all cease where I'm concerned. I would become like many others on this and other forums and just disappear into the realm of 'lurkers'.

If you haven't got someone in your area with inherent/educated knowledge about archery equipment and form, what can you do about it? Maybe you contact someone at ATA about this subject and see if they can come up with a solution. Maybe PW12 and I should take our knowledge 'on the road' and see the world while we earn a living fixing archery problems. Would you be willing to pay if we brought our talents to your neighborhood? PSE has something like this in their traveling trucks. They, however, have reduced the number of trucks because they were not profitable!

I'm tired of typing, so some can now bust on me and PW12.

Dubbya

alright well..... where do i start. First of all yes the release is a little long and there is a hunting/ fishing show this weekend so maybe i will pick one up. As for everything else, I appreciate everyone's info.

I started playing golf, when i was about 5 never had a lesson in my life and i'm now a solid 4 handicap. As for bowhunting I have just a few seasons under my belt, but many with guns. Maybe it's stubborness but this is how i look at it: someone had to start shooting the "right" way without any lessons. I don't know why I can't do the same thing. With all the combined knowledge on this site, there is no reason that I shouldn't be able to improve every aspect of my archery hunting skills (Double Creek is with me here).

I didn't change anything on the bow from one set of pics to the next, same draw same everything, just bent my left arm a little more. I took a pic tonight with my arm at a (happy medium) and everything seems to be pretty good (as far as draw length). I truly do appreciate all the thoughts and constructive criticisms you have offered.

As for those that feel seeing a PROfessional is the only way to go, then I would be extremely happy if you wanted to send me a check to pay for these PROfessional lessons. Don't forget that nobody is forcing you to sit down and read the thread and respond. If you have a problem offering advice, simply don't do it and save all of us the time replying. Len I have an incredible amount of respect fo you and your opinion. I'm not ridiculing you for not wanting to share your knowledge. But don't threaten the users of this site with the absence of your information. If you want to make a living by giving advice on websites, maybe you should start a "pay by the sentence" website. I'm sorry you felt that your given information was NEVER enough, but i have never personally requested your opinion on anything. How do you know that I don't have a lot of family in maryland that could be recommended to you? Maybe you just shot yourself in the foot because you aren't willing to give any info for free. Would you tell someone "yeah, go to home depot and ask them how to install a window...but they might charge you for their information"? of course you wouldn't.

So I pose this question to you... If you aren't willing to offer any information, is there really anyone that wants to listen? If you don't want to, don't do it. if you want to complain about people asking questions, then start your own post.

As for everyone else, I do appreciate your PROfessional opinion and opinions as experienced archers.

Len in Maryland

Quote:

So I pose this question to you... If you aren't willing to offer any information, is there really anyone that wants to listen? If you don't want to, don't do it. if you want to complain about people asking questions, then start your own post.

Your question has already been answered and this is the problem. Many don't realize why their questions can't be answered. I DIDN'T say that I wasn't willing to give any information. All you have to do is go to the last thread you made and you'll see that I responded by saying "Based on the limited pictural format, your bow is the correct draw length. It's your form that is too long. Listen to some of the points made about body position before you start making your bow conform to poor form.". There are many on this and other forums who have a good grasp on form. I've had some visit my shop and I can attest to the fact that they've got it together. If they're willing to take stabs at helping you, great. Can they lead you in the wrong direction? Yes, because they, like me or PW12, would be guessing because they can't see you.

Now you admit that you didn't change the bow but changed your form. Now you're going to run out and buy another release because someone mentioned something about it. Who do you listen to and how are you going to react to any other information on this forum? Your reactions could be totally adverse to what a true PROfessional might be trying to relate.

I'm not "complain(ing) about people asking questions". First, why would I "complain about people asking questions". It's a free world and this is an open forum. Ask any questions you want. I could care less. It's the chastising of people like PW12 and myself that I find appaulling. If you'd check my response list, it's limited because I don't have the desire or time to get involved in every post. Yes, I do have to 'pick and choose' which threads where I can/should participate. Sir, all you have to do is post a thread asking about how many PMs I've answered. I get a lot of these on this and quite a few other forums. You're questioning my right/desire/will to participate and help. I find this ludicrous.

Ask the 'industry' what I do for the sake of archery. You'd have to contact the ATA, local archery organizations, Boy Scouts of America, local businesses, church groups, and even international groups. Yes, international groups because I recently helped a man from Greece set up an archery team. He came to visit me back in October. How about you asking the question of those on this forum who have gleaned a lot of technical information over the MANY YEARS that I have been posting here. The number of phone calls that I take in a week from some who have gotten my phone number is astonishing. I try to take time for these FREE calls, but again I have to limit the time I spend doing this. After all, I do have customers standing there waiting for me to help them.

The number of customers who come into my store who get FREE information about their form would bogle your mind. Yes, I will give free form information, but only if I have all the 'facts' in front of me. Otherwise I find that there are TOO many unknowns to give any PROfessional advise.

You want to learn more and I commend you for that. PW12, like myself, has learned that he can waste a lot of time answering questions on a subject that is too open-ended with limited facts. He has also searched his sole about the true impact he has on the PROfession that he loves so much. Is it all about money? No, but it is about sustenance and the future of the PROfession and properly servicing those customers who take the time and trouble to visit our shops.

Thank you for wanting to find out more about this sport. I certainly hope you learn to enjoy it. I feel sorry that you can't afford lessons and I feel sorry for those who live far away from PROfessional services. I will continue to offer what advice that I can and YOU can choose to listen or ignore ME. I am just trying to make some aware that there is a limit that some of us have to maintain. I just hope that the majority understand our dilemma.

Good shooting to all.

Double Creek

Len and Pinwheel,

I respect what both you guys do and you definitely give ALOT to this board. But, when I post questions such as the one in this thread, I do not expect either of you to give me a "FREE" answer, I wouldn't if I were in your shoes.

I'm expecting answers from fellow bowhunters that know more about archery than I do, such as Arthur, Rack, PA, etc. Just b/c a guy asks a question about tuning, form, etc does not mean he expecting to get PRO advice, teaching, guidance. He may just be looking for opinions for guys who have more experience in such matters.

nub

Double Creek

You're screen must me too small!!!


I'll work on getting it smaller

silentassassin

I don't advocate that anybody give their information away. If you want to, that is great and if you don't that is great too. It's appreciated when you do but not expected. However, my problem is when the PROs come into a thread, where us average Joes are trying to be benevolent, and insult those people for trying to help. If you don't want to spread your knowledge then don't. No one is going to blame you for that. But, the last time I checked no one inquired for the PROs to come in and comment. After the fact, I merely said that rather than come in and critcize others for trying to help, since it's going to take the same amount of time that was spent on negative posting, that it would be easier to just offer help. Also, there is another thread going on that some people should answer. If you are not coming to the tech forum to help and share knowledge, what are you here for? Some of the guys here, though knowledgeable, don't have the equipment necessary to do most of their own work. All the passing of knowledge is going to do is to help them have a better understanding of the sport and to know what to expect from their own personal proshop. I understand that you are trying to protect your industry, basically by trying to keep people in the dark so they will need to come to you or another proshop for service. That is understandable. However, when those same people start preaching about furthering the sport or archery, when what they really mean is that they want to further the sport of archery, so long as it's on their terms and puts more money in their pockets. I can't help but wonder. If you truely wanted to further the sport wouldn't you want to help people come into the sport or stay in the sport in anyway possible? I don't have a problem with taking one stance or the other, it's when people try to do both that the contradiction comes in. At least in my eyes. JMHO