The Problem with Archery?!
 

Let me first admit, I am still what I consider a newbie in regards to archery but have been a gun hunter for about 40 years. Please don't throw me out - yes I still hunt with a gun.

Now to the subject matter. I just have not taken the time to read much in the last three months, much less think of posting. But a little history first.

I decided in 2002 to go into Archery in hopes of going on an archery Elk hunt in MT. So I read all the reveiws I could, tried a few bows and purchased a 2002 Cybertec. Nice bow, took a wild hawg with it. Then the 2003's come out, new and improved. Read all the reviews and tried a bowtech. Had to have one, so I sold the Cybertec (don't ask how much money I lost) and bought a Pro 40 DC. Actually shot better. I do think the bow had some to do with it but agreed I now have shot for a year, at that time.

More to the point, so having about had it with taxes I decided to read a few reviews ---- and whoa all the new bows with great reviews. But wait what is going on!!! In rifles, we essentially are using the same bolt actions for over 100 years with some modifications. Heck, the 30-06 will celebrate its 100 year anniversary in two years. The 1911 semi-auto pistol is now nearly 100 years old. Yea, I know the new WSM and WSSM but really no major changes. Sure bullets change, but this is an archery forum.

So back to my subject " The Problem with Archery?!" I can't keep up with the changes ---- that's what's the problem. I can't afford the Divorce, I mean the new bow each year. If a person is going to change bows each year why don't they just lease them to us. You know lease not buy. If you don't intend to keep something you rent it. So maybe I should have placed this on eders or somewhere. Hey, new business venture. Bow rental!!

Please don't flame me too bad. I say all the above with tongue in cheek. I just would love to go try some of the new bows but I think I'll stay with my old antique 2003 BowTech Pro 40 DC.

Now that I have ranted, think I'll do a few more tax returns.

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

Hang on a CPA that can't afford a new bow each year that just dont add up:D

But yes I know what you are saying but in all honesty do what I do instead of throwing out all those pennies that seem to appear in your pocket out save them;)
By the years end there will be enough to buy 2 or 3 bows:D plus a bunch of arrows:D

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

cpa, I hear ya. I have had the same browning A-bolt 30-06 for about 12 years. I could care less if I don't get another one for another 12 years. I could not go out today and find a better rifle (for me). But every few years, I just have to get a new bow. I think that is part of what makes archery so much fun for me. All the tinkering, etc. I think if you buy quality equipment, you should not lose that much money when you go to sell. IMO, it needs to be a Bowtech, Matthews, Hoyt, or something similiar that has a good resale value. I see used Bowtechs and Matthews selling on ebay for $400-500 all day long. Buy quality accessories as well and hang on to them. That will save a little! I bought a Liberty a few months ago and am already getting the fever to buy a Pat DC! Good luck. ;)

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

Cpahunter
I feel your pain I also have just gotten into archery after many years of rifle hunting and after buying a Parker Hunter mag and shooting it for a while I made the mistake of trying a Bowtech patriot and ended up with it too. Not unlike yourself I cannot afford a divorce, but unlike you I live in Montana so if you are really looking for an elk hunt let me know i have a few friends who guide. Anyway back to the subject of archery I think I have found the right bow for me ad am going to try and stay out of the bow shops and turn a deaf ear to all this new high tech stuff in order to stay married.

I think it is important to remember guys have killed elk with two sticks and a string of buffalo hide so all of this junk is probably unessesary. I hope to get my brain back in the mail soon and maybe I will sell out on technology and go traditional? But it is fun to watch an arrow fly(you can't really see it with a compound)and smack the target hard.

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

Guys, you don't have to update ever year, heck my 2001 Bowtech Extreme Solo is still the fastest 60 lbs bow I have had in my hand, and I'll be hunting with it for years to come if I can stay alive and healthy, my 2004 Bowtech Justice VFT is nice too but just because you see a new bow doesn't mean run out and buy it, just buy as you feel the need and have the $$$ hid away from the wife.

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

I'll try to answer your question. Guns have improved over the last 100 years, but the old ones still work well. Least I say better production of ammunition, improved sighting systems, muzzle breaks, light-weight stocks, etc.

Likewise, bows have improved. The difference, however, is the the demand for archery, while stagnant for the first 3/4 of this century, is increasing every year. The access to hunting around heavily populated areas, in part, has prompted the demand. The desire to improve the 'bow', especially prior to 1990, was impaired by the demand. The demand has produced the need to grasp the latest technology and materials available to give the consumers something more attractive. Since there is so much available in the two categories mentioned, releasing it over a period of time is beneficial to the manufacturers.

There are many new designs in progress right now that may or may not be introduced next year. It's the way most industries operate. My two year old truck does not have all the nice features of the current model. My computer was outdated when I bought it. My two year old television is now much cheaper and new technology makes it look 'old'.

I think you get the point.

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

cpahunter,

Keep in mind, there are many hunters still hunting with a stick they carved from a tree and homemade arrows with flint broadheads. You don't need a new bow every year to kill animals. Your current bow or your last one, will be efficient weapons for at least a couple decades. There is far more to be gained by working on form and practicing a lot, then there is by supposedly upgrading equipment. Of course, many of us like new toys, and there's nothing wrong with that. It helps with the economy, and makes sure there are no holes burning in our pockets, but there isn't much to be gained by upgrading frequently.

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

Very well said Len.

Cpahunter,

Other than what Len stated I would also add that this year's bows are not leaps and bounds "better" in terms of design and construction than bows from five years ago. There is a noticeable improvement for those of us who "go through alot of bows" but to the normal person I do not think they would really see a significant change from a 1999 Hoyt Magnatec and a 2004 Hoyt Ultramag. That is just my opinion though.

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

Buying new gear every year keeps it exciting for me. Sure, my 1996 Jennings Apex shot just as good as my 2003 Protec does, but the new gear gets me off my can and out in the yard shooting.

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

Before I got my ProTec a couple of years ago, I was shooting an old Hoyt Superslam Legacy from around 92-93(?) and shooting it plenty good enough to win a few tournaments. The look on them Mathews shooters' faces was SO gratifying. LOL :D

I look at things way different than Len does. The industry was NOT stagnate through the first 3/4 of the last century. We started off with English style longbows backed with fiber or baleen. Doug Easton started making aluminum arrows in the 30's. Developements in WWII brought us fiberglass backings and made reliable recurves at a price people could afford and longbows nearly went extinct. Recurves went through a LOT of refinements and designs. Fiberglass arrows made an impact. Compounds came along and recurves darn near went extinct. And they've been upgraded every year. Multiple wheels with heavy cam hangars finally gave way to dual wheel bows with axle holes drilled through the limb tips. That was a major innovation at the time, not even 25 years ago.

But all those innovations came about while NFAA field archery was cock of the walk. We had some unmarked distance 'animal shoots' around hunting season to get the old eyeballs accustomed to judging yardage. That was it. And, frankly, I think the average shooter in those days was at least twice as good as the average shooter today. Most guys I've shot with lately, I doubt they could finish half a field archery round. And hardly any of them know how to stack pins for a shot at 70 or 80 yards. Poor little maroons... [&o]

Then along comes IBO and 3D in the mid-80's. The arms race began right then. The guys that couldn't judge yardage decided a faster arrow would help them beat out the guys that could. Beman introduced pultruded carbon arrows. All of a sudden, speed became more important than accuracy, consistency, quietness or shooting comfort, and it just got worse every year since.

Speed put money into the industry, for sure, but it flat ruined field archery. Suddenly, the byword was "I don't like shooting at spots". Bull! What the heck is that 12-ring? A SPOT, dipwad! Truth of the matter was they couldn't match the scores they shot with their old bows, the draw cycles were so horrid they were getting worn out after about 40 arrows, and they knew there were another 72 arrows to shoot, so they quit shooting field archery. 3D shooters are Wusses!;)

Now, finally, manufacturers are starting to bring those old time shooting qualities back into their bows while maintaining most of their speed gains. I hope they continue in that direction. We've got plenty of speed already. And, about 15 years ago, traditional archery was reborn with a whole variety of recurves and longbows. Then folks began rediscovering primitive archery, whittling bows out of trees, making arrows out of rivercane, knapping flint heads...

No. Archery has definitely NOT been stagnate, especially since the end of WWII.

Now the manufacturers have worked themselves into a corner. They HAVE to come up with some new wrinkle every year or folks feel betrayed and jump ship to another brandname that does have a new wrinkle. The archery industry is the perfect epitomy of the free market economy at work. Ain't nothing wrong with archery. It's the American way. LOL

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

Arthur- you have brought a tear to my eye by mentioning the "old" animal shoots. That was one of my favorites, even more-so than 3D.Wish they'd go back to them. Stacking pins yesssss, even made sure there was a gap on top of the peep for those reallllyyy long shots. I better shut-up I'll give away my age.

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

Weren't those old animal shoots fun, Big John? :)

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

Yes they were, never missed one. Even the night coon shoots. They used to leave the targets out and during the week we'd go out and practise. We knew the distance from every rock, stick, and tree on the course.Butttttttt- now we have an 16 lane indoor heated clubhouse, with distance to 60yds. Warm-no rain-no snow-food-drinks-bathroom facilitys. Of course Davidmil can use the tree out back if he wishes.

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

ArthurP:

While I remember those days and agree with some of what you posted, I still contend that the industry has grown in leaps and bounds over the past 25 years. While I read in your post more about recreational archery, my post tends to encompass both the recreational and hunting aspect of our sport.

The deer population explosion that we have witnessed in the past two decades has attracted a lot of NEW hunters to our sport. The increase of deer, coupled with the increase of property development, has caused some really unique situations that we never faced in the past. I can't tell you how many gun hunters come into the shop each year because they can't hunt the 'good' spots with guns. They are also trying to get into the longer archery season and want to enjoy a bigger 'challenge'.;)

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

You would shoot and probably hunt better if you bought a new bow every ten years. While there are lots of changes, I wouldn't feel the least bit at a tactical disadvantage with my original Mathews 3d Hunter in hand. The only thing worth anything in deer pie terms that has happened since are the quieter bows we now have. Have I owned 10 or more new bows over that period, sure it cost me about 2-300 a year to trade "up".

Is Jeff Hopkins still campaigning his conquest pro (can't even remember what they called it back then).

Don't get me wrong, compounds have gradualy improved, and most of the changes aren't hype, but they aren't must-haves unless you a gearhead.

Learn to hunt with a real longbow, and you're never out of style.

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

Len, I agree that bowhunting has grown by leaps and bounds over the past 25 years (actually I'd give it an extra 5-10 years, do to the legalization of the compound along that time frame) but sporting archery has been in decline for the past 10-15 years.

The decline of sporting archery is something I'd think the industry would be VERY concerned about. Especially when it comes to the near extinction of women and children shooters. The recreational/target archer is what keeps sales flowing year round. Surely the industry doesn't want to become strictly a seasonal/male oriented business!??! Think what would happen to your annual sales figures if only half of those 'bowhunter' customers you see each September would get their entire families involved in field archery or 3D.

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

Yes, there is a definite decline in recreational archery. For a while there, 3D archery was really growing. Part of the problem, as I see it, was the development of cliques in all formats of recreational archery. We spend too much time infighting and that makes many just hate to get involved.

I just signed a contract with the Boys Scouts of America to help promote the sport. I try many ways to get youth involved; but, what about getting those adults back? I wish I had the answers.[:o]

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

My first answer would be to kick the open class out of 3D. Turn it back into a bowhunters' game instead of cutthroat competition. It'd go a long way toward getting recreational shooters back.

Not many people - especially kids and older folks with infirmities, have the staying power to spend all stinkin' day to shoot a measely 30 arrows. 3D has gotten flat boring to most people because of all the standing around and waiting. That's not simply my opinion. That's the main complaint I've heard from shooters in my capacity as a club officer and tournament director.

I'm sure all the open class shooters will put on their wings and halos, then chew my arse over saying something like that. But what they SAY on these forums hardly ever works out true in real life.

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

Great points Art and Len. We have all seen the decline in most target formats in recent years, and yes, it is mostly due to the cliques of individual formats and infighting.

However, I also see a growing interest developing where the parents are getting their youth involved in this wholesome (if addressed correctly;) ) sport again. Local JOAD programs are working well and growing in our area, we just all need to further solidify this interest by stopping the bashing within the different formats and look at the sport of Archery as a whole instead of segregated formats. Once we can all embrace the entire sport for what it is no matter what our prefered format or style or even type of bow, it will then be much easier to grow the sport to what it deserves to be.

I personally believe that we need to eliminate all of the hubub about cash and only focusing on the elite Pros or top 3 in a given format, especially when it comes to getting the children involved. With them, if it isn't fun, they will not be doing it for long... If we were to say embrace the top 20 in a given round no matter the format, then this gives more incentive to "average" shooters to come out and play the game, along with making it a much more relaxed atmosphere. If we continue on only praising those who have already mastered the game, it leaves little incentive IMHO, especially when we create tougher and tougher scoring zones to separate those elite shooters each year. Most average archers soon realize that it would take simply too much time, trouble, and effort to compete at that high of a level, and drives them away to do something else that is easier and more fun. This is not the way we need to go, at least IMO. I'd like to see everyone make this sport what it used to be--fun camaraderie for all, with emphasis on trying to improve your own game, not "winning is everything". Being a former Champion myself I know all about the time, commitment, and dedication that it takes to reach the top, and the sport itself does not necessarily have to be like that for everyone, because the "fun" dwindles at that point and it turns into a "job" -- there is alot that one can get out of it without all of that. JMHO, Pinwheel 12

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

I agree with Arthur about the Pro's at a 3d event. Sure they pay more money to play, but man, 8 hours for 30 targets is just plain stupid. I don't mind waiting a couple of minutes for scoring and such, but you should never need a lawn chair to walk a course. The first time I have to do that at a 3D shoot is the last time I enter that clubs events. Unless they change the format. I am all for pro events, but maybe make them a seperate event, different day, something.

Fortunately, around here, there are a lot of clubs that still put on fun events, and I see a lot of wives and kids out with dad. I know my 4 year old daughter will be shooting this summer, at least until she says she is not having fun anymore.
JMAC

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

Maybe I should clarify my condemnation of the open class. In tournaments where there is something truly on the line, where cutthroat competition is the reason people are there, then have at it. But the little club shoots - the ones that are for the recreational shooters - LEAVE THEM ALONE, open class! That competition attitude is neither needed nor wanted.

Those shoots are for the regular folks, so they can get out and shoot their bows and enjoy a day at the range. They are not being put on for your benefit, so you can get in your 'practice time.'

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

I am right there with ya Arthur. That is exactly what I was trying to say as well, probably just made a poor attempt at saying it. :eek:

JMAC

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

I think we're all on the same page on the 3D issue. It's gotten totally out of hand and the administrators don't seem to care or understand the problem. I stopped attending 3D events when it started taking more than 3 hours to run a 20 position course.[:@]

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

They sure are! They were brought back by popular demand last year at our archery club and should remain for years to come.


Yeeehaa! We still have the coon shoots every year. And I thought that was just a backwoods Wisconsin thing.:D

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

Arthur- you see BOWFANATIC'S post!!! You swing by and pick me up, I'll buy dinner on the way.

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

No Cheerleaders! Been to several 3D shoots and haven't seen a dang one![:@]

RE: The Problem with Archery?!
 

At some of the samll local shoots, you could shoot two rounds of golf in the time it takes to get done. Also gas prices have gone up about 50% around here. all in all it got too expensive.

Also long stabs and umbrelas were so ridiculous.