Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

I have a question that has probably been asked many times. I apoligize if that's the case.
Here in Oregon were are required to hunt with no more than 65% leftoff. There are alot of bow manufactures that offer 80% let-off on their bows and shops usally have them set that way. I shot a Liberty and Pat SC and both were set at 80% let-off.
Does it make sense to have them turned down to 65% let-off and shoot them before buying. My current bow a Martin Pantera has always been set @ 65%.
What characteristics change going from 80% to 65%? Besides holding more weight, is the draw cycle the same? Does anything else change.

Thanks in advance, Camo

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

Well with 80% let off your holding less poundage back, but 80% also slows your arrowspeed out of the bow.

65% you hold more poundage back and the arrow speed is faster.

hope this helps

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

Archer18.. I'd normally agree w/ you.

But on the Bowtechs Icam... the same cam is used to go from 65-80% letoff... you just lengthen the draw stop for the higher letoff.. which means that the cam has to go past the 65% mark... so would the arrow actually fly faster due to the slightly longer power stroke?

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

A bow set at 65% letoff is a bit less inclined to torque than the same bow at higher letoff and, I think, is more consistently accurate because of that.

Frankly, I don't think it makes a bit of sense for a pro shop in a state with a legally mandated 65% letoff to be offering any bows in their shop at 80% (of course, I don't think any letoff over 65% makes a lick of sense anyway). The vast majority of their customers are going to be hunters and not strictly 3D'ers. I hope the shops inform their customers the bows are illegal for hunting until the letoff is changed?

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

Most of the shops here have the 65% cams on their bows. The ones I go to you would have to ask for the 80%. I do agree, I don't know why you would want to. When I moved to Oregon, I had to get a new cam for my bow. I always thought I had the 65, but when I really dug into it, I did not. Why would you want to have more than 65% before this year? What if you lucked out, and arrowed a buck for the book? Sure would suck to not put it in theh book because you wanted to hold a few less pounds.

JMAC

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

Here in Idaho I know they are trying to get it legal to hunt with 80% let off, haven't heard if it passed yet. I think that if it's going to help make an accurate shot on an animal verses a bad shot they should make it legal. For instance elk hunting you have got to get the bow pulled back before the bull sees you, and alot of times you are holding your bow back anywhere say from 15-30 seconds to a minute, waiting for the perfect broadside shot, and with 80% let off I feel will help on more accurately placed shots on game and less wounded game.;)

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

I don't know how many times I have walked into a pro shop and the owners "pushed" a bow at me set at 80% letoff. I almost got into an argument at one shop when I told the owner I wanted to pull a Hoyt set at 65%. He told me I would like the higher letoff better. I said no, I've shot bows for many years and if its not 65% I am not interested. Needless to say, he finally found one on his rack that was set at 65%. I didn't buy the bow, but he was almost astounded that I preferred 65%. Same thing happened in another shop with a Matthews LX. It was set at 30"/80% so I pulled it. Although it felt nice I told the shop I needed it adjusted to the 29.5"/65% mode. Too busy at the time with other customers I never got to feel it or shoot it at my normal draw length and letoff. But this is another story about Matthews I will bring up in another topic.

Take a new bow in the rack, a guy already looking to buy or trade, set it at 80% and the hook is set![>:]

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

Just be aware, the greater the 'let offs' the 'easier' it is to distort the bow string and the 'easier' to torque the bow left or right.

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

Robinhood, I disagree with the entire premise of your post. 80% letoff makes a bow more critical to shoot, more sensitive to form errors and that makes it less accurate in hunting conditions, in my estimation. You do NOT have to have the bow predrawn to shoot an elk, or any other animal. You do not HAVE to wait at full draw 15 seconds to one minute to get a broadside shot. You can wait until that broadside shot is there and then draw and shoot. A great many traditional shooters get their elk each year doing exactly that.

And having high letoff that you can hold forever means you can get tired holding that draw wich can cause you to have an increased chance of making a bad shot. Or you can get the old buck fever anxiety, sweats and shakes while waiting and wind up punching the trigger at the first glimmer of a shot. Another good chance for a bad shot.

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

Thanks for the response guys.
I am headed out right now to shoot the Liberty & Pat S/C again. I will find out for sure what they are set at and if they will set them up @ 65% let-off. When I get back I may be the proud owner of a new bow:D:D:D

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

Arthur P, I have been bowhunting elk since I was 14, In the last 8yrs. I have harvested 7 bulls taken with compound bow, 65% let off. I know from many set ups on elk that when you see them coming in you better get the bow back and wait for your shot. Bull elk when calling them in they will come in and if they do not see another elk, they will leave if they already hav'nt winded you. Bull elk are not going to stand there and let you pull your bow back and let you shoot, 90% of the time when they see any movement, they will bolt! They're not curious as the muley deer.
I have held my bow back on big bulls as close as 5 yrds. waiting for a perfect broadside shot. I am very particular where I shoot a bull elk, as I will only take a broadside shot. I have held on bulls, and I admit there has been times I just had to let up and spooked them off because they just would not give me a good broadside shot. With 80% let off I figure yes it would thus allow you to hold back more comfortably 15% less more weight, thus being less shaky if and when you do hold back for a while on bulls.
As with hunting with recurves, yes I do hunt with a Damon Howat 55# bow. The last 2years I have hunted the first 2 wks with recurve, and follwed up the rest of the season with my compound. I can get an arrow off pretty fast and accurate out to 20yrds. So I say with a recurve you probably don't need to pull back and hold, and it also has to do with your shooting style, and at the time the situation. I hav'nt as of yet had a chance at bull elk with my recurve. Just curious, have you hunted ELK.:)
And by the way if I did't get excited when a elk came in, and shake a little bit, I would'nt be bowhunting.

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

EXACTLY!!

And, like ampahunter said:
So, why would you want a bow that forces you to be dead on with your very best form and control - in order to make an accurate shot - at the very moment when your heart is pounding in your dry throat, palms sweating, knees shaking and your concentration scattered to the winds? It doesn't matter whether the animal is an elk or a ground squirrel, a poor choice in gear is a poor choice period.

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

Well, I checked and most of the bows are set up for 65% at the shop.
I'm sorry maybe I misunderstood him when he told me before. I thought he said they were set-up @80%. Anyway I shot them again at 65% and loved the Liberty.:D Thanks for everyones input.

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

ArthurP
Yes, there are many traditional shooters out there that get their elk every year, you are correct. However a guy like myself who has the occasional flyer and cannot be sure that he will hit an elk hard every time with a recurve or barebow, would be unethical if he hunted with a bow he was not proficient with and should use sights even(Ah! theres that word again). I would much rather hold back at 80% than 65%. I have killed many elk over the years and have taken a few hunters on their first bow kill. Yes you do need to hold back for longer periods of time while hunting elk with a sighted compound. I actually practice this way at the range. An elk can pinpoint your exact location from several hundred yards. It is now second nature to load up when the bull is commited to coming in. When I was a field editor I spoke with many people on this topic and many have agreed. The number one reason that an elk within bow range is not killed is because the hunter has waited too long to draw, I have seen it time and time again ,first hand. Robinhood is valid in his point. The elk I took last year waited about 45 seconds to give me the perfect shot. And when it did, the arrow hit home and punched both lungs. Hunting open lodgepole is a different environment. With a bull in front of you there is never usaully the opportune moment to draw. Yes a recurve is a good bow to hunt with if you are a decent shot and wait for the close shot. And I beleive that they are effective, the best in some cases, In the right hands. But for those that aren't proficient enough they too can be the poor choice. As for the 80% being harder to shoot I would say for some yes , but then again recurves are hard to shoot for some also. I know that I can shoot an 80% as well as a 65%. So why woudn't I want a bow that would give me the edge in these situations. The 80% rule for Idaho has my vote. Hey Arthur, maybe we can get rich off an over and under bow? Without sights of course.[8D]

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

I've tried several 80% letoff cams with a module to change letoff to 65%. I hate the 65% letoff modules. All they do is shorten the valley. Nothing else changes on the bow's draw cycle, but the valley becomes non-existant. Just a dropoff to 65% in a very short distance. I think I would love a 65% letoff on a cam with a nice valley, but I hate the method they appear to be using to acheive a 65% letoff on cams that are designed for 75-80% letoff. Until I can get a 65% letoff cam that is designed with a valley, I won't use them.

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

[/quote]
Arthur P,[>:][>:][>:]

Sounds to me like you have never hunted elk before if you can wait until there 15 yards in front of you and you can just pull your bow back without them seeing AND hearing you. I am in COMPLETE agreeance with RobinHood36. Every elk ive killed ive pulled my bow back just before they come tearing out of the timber or are in sight. Elk are NOT mule deer, they are not as curious. Sure traditional bowhunters can harvest that way, but we are talking about COMPOUNDS here, not stickbows. As far as im concerned you need to apologize to Robinhood36 becuase his point is VALID![:@]

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

[/quote]

By the way Arthur, i found this quote you made. So are you just undecided on if you like letoff or not. or maybe you just like to start arguments for the heck of it. [:@][:@][>:][>:][X(][X(]

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

Ok, so if you ever get hold of a 90% bow....that makes it better? When does a bow no longer become a bow?

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

when they start putting gun barrels on them. [X(]

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

Archer 18,

I don't think Arthur is trying to argue, just giving an alternate point of view. No need to get upset, just take what you can use and leave the rest.

By the way, I've drawn on several elk and none have ever seen me draw. Maybe it's because I'm careful about my setup and where I'm hiding. I'm use to hunting whitetails and I've learned to draw on them and release within a couple seconds. I'm usually in a tree, behind a tree or bushes or in a blind. I'm very aware that I want to hide my draw. However, I don't want to draw way in advance and hope I get an opportunity. Just my method, and it works well for me. There is more then one way to skin a cat. :)

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

There's more than one way to skid a cat too...;):D

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

No, I don't want to argue about this crap AGAIN. The fact is that high letoff bows are more demanding of good form and that makes them more critical to use in hunting situations than lower letoff. Sorry if you guys don't like dealing with facts, but you simply cannot escape it.

Archer18, the quote you came up with is taken w-a-a-a-y out of context. Just to clear the air and set matters straight... The proper context of that statement is comparing traditional bows to compounds. Even further, it's comparing shooting a compound fingers and barebow to shooting traditional bows. It is not applicable to differentiating between 65% and 80% letoff.

And NO, I have not hunted elk. But I have hunted these skittish Texas whitetails from the ground for many years. With recurves and longbows and selfbows and compounds... And YES, it darn sure IS a challenge to draw and shoot without getting busted.

Drawing and getting a shot off when the shot is presented without getting busted is the second greatest challenge in bowhunting. It is integral to bowhunting. You use equipment to eliminate that challenge, then you are doing something other than bowhunting. IMO, you might as well be using a crossbow and I do lump high letoff compounds right in there with crossbows.

Now, there's you something to argue about. Like I said though, I don't intend to get into again. I won't change my opinion and I doubt I ever have changed anyone else's opinion in the several hundred times I've wallowed around in the muck with this issue.

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

Some guys don't care if it goes in the book or not. Putting a Pope in the "book" in no way makes it any better of a trophy.

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

Although I am a proponent of 65% and less......Rack Attack's statement is accurate.

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

I agree with Arthur that a 65% letoff is a more accurate setup but there are some that can't shoot them as well as 80%.IMO the reason is they just don't give them a chance.They pull the 65% back after shooting 80% and automatically don't like the feel and the few shots they take with it,they are complaining about the feel.If most would get passed that and give the bow an honest chance at 65% letoff and let their muscles get used to the hold,they would, in most cases find that they shoot better than they ever had.



It is also true that a bow will shoot slightly faster at 65% than at 80% unless you are moving a peg back to achieve 80% ,then yes,the 80% will shoot about the same speed because the draw is slightly longer.



Here is what I did to shoot 65% for hunting and not have to hold a bunch of weight.Back the poundage down.I have shot up to 64#'s with 75% letoff(on 1 bow) but I shoot 58#'s now with 65% letoff(on different bow) and I shoot better because of it.It actually takes more poundage to hold as steady with higher letoff and higher poundage(very slightly more) to achieve the same speed,unless stop pegs are used as stated above.



I don't like the pulling back early and waiting philosophy but to each their own.I believe you are setting yourself up for bad shots when you are shooting tired.

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

Im gonna say one more thing,

Here's an idea: IF IT WORKS FOR YOU, DON'T CHANGE IT!!!

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

Yep! Who cares about the book

RE: Difference between 65/80% letoff?
 

I agree if it works then don't change but also be open minded to change.I am not telling anyone there way is wrong.I just want to put out there the pros and cons of both for the newer, less experienced to make an informed decission for themselves.That was the question asked.



I also agree,who cares about the book but I would still like to kill big enough animals that would qualify but I wouldn't put them in.I shoot 65% strictly for accuracy reasons and nothing else.