Not ironic - Fully intentional. The fact the WB is the cheap rest which usually comes with packaged ready-to-shoot bows doesn't escape me, and is the very reason I noted I would take the extra effort to remove the WB before leaving the store and leave it behind, should I ever purchase such a package.

Thanks guys
 

Thanks to all of ya for the input.Champlain Islander,your above post is exactly what i was thinking.I've been into archery for well over 30 yrs but didn't have any experience with the whisker biscuit and was wondering if my way of thinking was same as some experienced with this rest.After thinking about it,i personally wouldn't recommend it for a beginner either.Yes it works and does come on some ready to shoot bows such as my son's Bear,but I'm going to be replacing his because i don't think it teaches proper form.I tossed mine to the side and replaced it with a NAP Quicktune 360 and LOVE it so much better.Mere 30 bucks very well spent.

A WB is far better than a NAP Quiktune 360....and I like NAP.

WB does not teach bad form either.

No, it accentuates bad form. In other words, ANY mistake in follow-through will be transferred into the arrow. Whereas with pretty much all other rests that aren't continuous contact, you can get away with SOME little hiccups but not all of them :D

As far as the NAP quicktune goes, you are still trying to use a full arrow release stroke contacting rest. Capture releases just don't get my vote. ANY of them. It's a design basically made for a problem that is so easily curable with simply paying attention to what you are doing when moving your bow around. Simply keep your finger on the arrow till you draw. Problem solved. No need for all this gimiky stuff that manufacturers are trying to tell hunters and new archers they absolutely can't do the job without! I come from traditional off the shelf archery so keeping my finger over the arrow when moving the bow is 100% second nature to me. It should be second nature to anyone.

How tall are you?

Some would argue that its things that mask bad form that enable bad form.....not the other way around.

I'm 6'5". And yes that argument has merit with most things, but with archery, the human body is FAR from a perfect design and very few are the same. In other words...folks goof! To have a design that requires perfect follow-through is stupid. Very few can accomplish it even with tons of practice. At my age, achieving excellent follow-though is difficult at best, dang near impossible for usual. Hence part of the reason I switched to drop away rests. Once you get one dialed in, it can improve your performance level quite a bit if you are having follow-through difficulties.

I was getting to where I could barely score a 465 on a 50 target shoot. Had a couple friends video me shooting. Took a long close look at the whole thing and discovered some pretty big differences from earlier films. My bow arm was dropping a bit early on release, my wrist positioning was nowhere near as flexed as it used to be, my stance had closed in some, my string arm wasn't dropping straight back as it used to, just all kinds of tiny things that most wouldn't notice but when added together was making me shoot a good percentage worse than in times before. My first drop away solved about 85% of the problems. The other 15% I just had to get my dang mind right and make my body work in unison with the bow.

1. Just to be clear I agree 100% a good drop away is much better

2. Now, At 6' 5" you reckon its a little more natural for you to have your foot long finger around that arrow than say a guy that is 5'9" with a 3.5" finger with a compound bow?

3. I will probably never hold another arrow on with my finger ever again. Its not bad form to stop doing something that is no longer functional with a compound bow.

4. I would venture to guess most bow hunters really have no business shooting deer with any rest out past distances the WB can handle.

5. He is what I do to correct my own poor form that I develop. I take my bow and I walk right up to the target and I shoot from about 2 feet away, focus 100% on my form without worrying about where my arrow goes and I retrain myself to shoot the damn thing right.

6. I'm not arguing against going to a dropaway because it mask bad form. Just pointing out a WB does not teach bad form....if anything its the other way around.

It would be pretty cool to have one of the bow "experts" to conduct a little test similar to how the BP guys are always messing around with loads and bullets. Shoot 2 bows one with a WB and another with just a prong rest through a chrony and check pattern.

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/...hisker-biscuit

Ive shot all 4 my self. Ive found the drop away is better slightly in performance with less maintenance, the WB is a very decent rest, and the NAP 360 is junk and the only of the 3 I'd choose a prong rest over for hunting.

Ive shot all 4 extensively

It basically is a design that is built to fail MUCH faster than any other design. Even among the other capture type rests. Now, to be fair, I know they re-designed the bristles and angle and they are supposed to be less damaging to fletching than they were previously, but with those lighter bristles comes faster wear. So, back to my original objections to the things, they in NO way can be accurate over long shooting times because of the wear and POI shift. That's my major complaint. If you can't keep practicing with your equipment, how do you plan on being the best you can be? You can't plain and simple.

Ive already have more than enough bolts and screws holding me together...I'll be done drawing bows long before 70. I certainly don't object to you using the better rest to accommodate these problems or just using them because they are better and you can.

I simply think you are exaggerating the problems with WB.

Eh - lots of guys kill game every season with tupperware stocked Ruger Americans, Savage Axis's, Rem 700 ADL's, or with Tasco, Barska, NcStar scopes, or with Remington Cor-lokt or Winchester Guys make it to work in Geo Metros and Ford Focus's.

Guys kill deer with whisker biscuits every season, guys get to work in Geo Metros.

"Working well enough" doesn't change the fact a Lexus is a better car than a Metro, a Leupold is a better scope than a Tasco, a QAD Ultra is a better rest than a Whisker Biscuit. Better is better - and "well enough" varies dependent upon the shooter's expectations. A WB doesn't meet my expectations for performance. Can I kill deer with one? Yes - can and have. Won't again though, because I won't hunt one ever again.

I would say that post pretty well says what a few of us are thinking. Well presented and simply stated.

Question for you to ponder. Since each person is voicing their own opinion based upon their own experience, do you think it's likely that each person's experience can be a little different? You might buy a different vehicle, pistol or arrow rest than I simply because of your own personal experience and what you have found works best for you.

Using rifle calibers as an example--I don't mind recoil and am happy shooting a 270 and 338 (my elk rifle). Another guy might be more recoil sensitive and stick with a 243 or 25-06. Are either of us wrong? The deer we shoot are still going to be dead. But maybe each of us has a different experience with all of these calibers and has figured out what works best for us. YMMV even more and you could be a 300WM kind of guy.

I haven't archery hunted yet (someday) but have shot some with a bow. I can see where different guys could end up with different equipment that works best for them due to experience and both would be right. The WB obviously works pretty well for you but maybe it didn't work so well for SH. Both of you providing the OP with your experience assists him in learning more about the WB and making a better informed decision. Food for thought.

We all seem to agree that certain rests are better (qad ultra/ripcord code red)

I don't use a WB and certainly wouldn't argue its in the top tier.

I simply think its a decent affordable simple hunting rest and haven't seen these problems at least to the degree others claim. The problems do exist but I think they are quite exaggerated.

I think more relative advice is needed.... when the criticism of the WB is based on comparing it to a much higher end rest it would be wise to be more specific so people don't get the impression that a NAP quicktune etc. is a better option.

A simple WB is quite good within its class and I think its important to acknowledge that so people don't end up with worse (like what happened here)

That's a fair statement.

I completely missed this post you put up with that F&S link. Now for my conclusions on their tests. All 4 guys testing it are accomplished archers. Your occasional Joe hunter out there doesn't practice like these guys do on a daily or every other day basis. So Joe hunter is not going to get that repeatable accuracy from ANY capture rest because without good practice you won't have the excellent to near perfect form required for the use of a capture rest. And again I'll state this, they didn't do a LONGEVITY test which will bring about POI shift. I also noted in the comments section where one fella actually saw his buddies WB all frozen up. That actually never crossed my feeble mind but that would be a VERY bad day if you got on an Elk and had frozen bristles to contend with.

As far as the Quick tune, I've never shot with one so I have no personal knowledge of them, but I lump ALL capture rests in the same category, Junk file! I'm a perfectionist in most things. I expect my equipment to meet the unforgiving standards that I put upon myself. If I miss that 170+ class buck of a lifetime, or that fat Doe for the dinner table, you can damn sure bet I wont be blaming my equipment. I'll be too busy kicking my own rear! I know everyone can't afford to put the best equipment on their bows. In this economy people are lucky to even have a bow! But to spend money on a piece of equipment that simply just isn't up to snuff just isn't good economics in my little ole humble opinion. Especially when they can spend a few more bucks on equipment that is 100% better over the long haul.

It seems as though there are different opinions regarding the WB.

For us, it turns out to be very appropriate. We stalk-still hunt, whatever it's called. So as one gets close to where you might have a shot, the WB enables one to nock an arrow and be ready, even though you may have to get down on your hands and knees to get close.

It may be that some people who use the WB only take a few shots a year. But there are a lot of people who use other rests who also take only a few shots a year. We try, unless the weather is pretty nasty, to take six shots every day. We do that in our backyard. It may not be legal in town here, for all I know. But we have trees and shrubbery to screen us, so nobody knows. We have almost 30 yards to the target. That's more than adequate, since I never take a shot more than about 10-15 yards max.

Does the WB wear out? Yes, but it's replaceable. Does it wear the fletchings? Yes, but arrows are replaceable. So for us, the way we hunt, the WB is a great thing. But, obviously, it's not for everyone.

I was reassured by the comparison tests which showed that the WB doesn't really affect arrow speed or accuracy by an appreciable amount.

I think your post shows the WB is actually a good enough rest for some people. Your last statement about affecting the speed is what SH was getting to. A small deviation in either speed or POI for a highly skilled archer seeking perfection is a game changer. If Olympic type perfection is the goal then the WB isn't the right tool to accomplish that along with other low end equipment. All bows and rests can and do kill deer when used properly. Dead is dead whether it is with a bow that costs in excess of $1300 with all the best of equipment and arrows or a factory packaged low end bow. The level of performance goes up with better equipment and practice along with the ability of the shooter to improve.

Love my whisker biscuit. It fits my hunting style and does the job. I stopped chasing the latest and greatest archery equipment years ago. Keep it minimal and simple is my motto now. As I get older, my shots are limited to 30 yards and I've found WB's, inexpensive carbon arrows, and simple broad heads work just fine. Spending more money on the best technology is wasted on me.

I applaud those who seek the best and think a WB is like driving a Geo. I just think one size does not fit all and the WB fits the needs of many.

Sachi, on your bow especially it is a detriment to you. At your low poundage draw weight and slow speeds, you need absolutely EVERY FPS you can get. And you can take those figures and near triple the speed loss you are getting BECAUSE of the lower poundage. Simple formula to figure that is : Same resistance + lower force = more loss due to resistance. Those guys testing were using state of the art 70# draw bows with more than 28 inch draw length for the force cycle. You on the other hand, are shooting 35 pounds, around 24 inch draw if I remember correctly, and a moderate cam.

Now, this puppy right here would serve your hunting style with perfection. Best of both worlds, containment for the arrow for your still hunting style without the full shot contact of the arrow. Giving you all the FPS your bow can produce at it's given draw length.

Archery hunters or target shooters always can step up to something better and more expensive. There is no such thing as the perfect equipment since new and technologically improved stuff is always coming out. To many the equipment they have is more than adequate for their needs and they wouldn't feel compelled to change anything. Everything kind of goes on personal preference and the satisfaction one has.

Thats just it CI, that rest I put up there is $10 CHEAPER for a much better rest. Yet another reason I just don't get the love for the WB. $60 bucks for a WB vs $50 for the Ultra rest Hunter seems like an absolute no brainer to me. http://www.midwayusa.com/s?targetLoc...3D1%26Ntpr%3D1 I just can't wrap my tiny little brain around why anyone would use lessor equipment and pay MORE for it. I'm an extremely strong advocate for people to get out there and practice as much as they possibly can and use the best tools they can afford for the job. Our game animals deserve our best. I might be big and ornery but when it comes to animals I am a big ole softy at heart. I don't typically get a "thrill" from the actual kill. I know it's something I HAVE to do as a conservationist and a hunter. So I want to make absolutely certain that I can deliver the quickest and cleanest kill I can. I've been driven my entire life towards the goal of perfection even though I know it's unattainable. I try to drive every student I've ever had in archery and firearms to that same unattainable goal.

The point is SH that not everyone is a perfectionist. People who ended up with a WB such as Sachiko like it and aren't looking to upgrade. They already have it and like it regardless of what other people feel. Case in point. I have owned about 6 compound bows each one a little better and more technologically advanced than the last. There was a time when I shot a lot more and was a member of leagues during the off season. Now in my later years I am shooting a Mathews that is certainly a better bow than the Martin I had before that. There are newer bows out there now that would be a couple of steps up from the one I have. I am satisfied with what I now own and feel quite confident that I should be able to easily kill a deer if given the opportunity. I have a gun safe full of guns and feel confident that any of the deer caliber guns would certainly be capable of accurately killing a deer if I choose to use them. None of my guns are bad shooters. If I wanted to drop some serious coin I could buy a custom gun but there is nothing wrong with the factory guns that I own even though a custom might be slightly more accurate. I drive an F150 as does a middle brother and another brother drives a GMC while the youngest one drives a Ram. We all like what we have even though the Fords might be better:biggrin:....the rests are the same deal. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder..regardless of what others think.

We appreciate the advice Super Hunt, but our thought is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." I've been hunting since I was 16 and have never missed a shot or lost a deer. We're not much into equipment. My husband retired a beautiful antique wooden compound bow in favor of a Browning that he got at half-price from Gander Mountain. Some one bought it, didn't like it, and returned it. We bought my bow at a yard sale for $20. It's supposed to be 30 lbs., which is just about right for little sachiko.

It's really no big deal, but sachi is like half a name. East Asians don't name kids by how it sounds. The names actually mean something depending on the kanji used. Sachi can mean different things, but the kanji my mother used means "of happiness." The ko means "child," so I am "child of happiness." It reflects my mother's feelings. But, like I said, no big deal. Just thought I would let you know. :)

Don't feel too bad, people shorten names on forums all of the time.

For example, my name is Nomercy448. It means "doesn't like people." People shorten that online all of the time to "Mercy," which I understand means something completely different.

:party0005:

<<< Lazy typist most times. Or sometimes I'm on the tablet which is a severe pain to type on for us older farts. And I always call him "mercy" because as much as he likes to deny it, he shows mercy to a LOT of folks needing help with one thing or another. :D

Well yeah but I think you found the highest price for a WB and the lowest for the qad

The basic WB is 39.99 shipped from Midway and the basic qad is $55 , $15 cheaper not $10 more......nobody should ever pay $60 for a WB IMO

I personally think the qad is well worth the extra $15 but its probably not to some people.

Its pretty easy to find a WB for less than $30

The qad is better but it is not cheaper.

As I pointed out earlier the criticism of the WB didn't lead to the OP getting a higher end rest.......it led to the op replacing the WB with a different $30 rest that carries all the down sides of the WB plus the added bonus of being prone too sudden one shot catastrophic failure.

This whole issue really is personal preference. It covers everything about archery...bows, rests, sights, stabilizers, arrows, broad heads and quivers plus all the other equipment like releases, peeps, string loops .... on and on. There are lots of people who buy really low end equipment because it matches their needs and budgets. To compare one brand or design as better is purely subjective. My first compound bow in the "early years" was a bear whitetail with cheap mismatched aluminum arrows and I killed a few deer with it. My last bow is several steps higher on the technological scale and the deer aren't any deader. Admittedly I shoot better with higher grade equipment but where does it end? At some point most people are satisfied with what they have and aren't re-equipping every year or two chasing the latest and greatest which in part is just sales tactics. A 20 yd shot is still a 20 yd shot regardless of the bow I am using.

CI is right, I believe, in that it really comes down to the factors he mentioned. If you can take deer with what you have, moving up to something more expensive and more elegant, is a matter of personal choice.

My 30 pound bow is just right for me. I have heard criticism, but I'm absolutely sure no one is going to stand 30 feet of so in front of me and let me send an arrow towards his chest. Not that I would do that of course. And the WB fits our style of hunting perfectly.

My husband uses the WB also, but he hasn't shot an animal since I started hunting. Instead of taking me out and showing me how it's done, he told me what to do and let me do it.

(For Nomercy; sachiko is not just my screen name. It's what everyone has always called me, even my teachers in school. It makes me feel very warm inside knowing that I am a "child of happiness.")

I think the answer is simply this.

If you are willing to spend $50+ yes there are better rest for sure. They are not just personal preference better, they are better....they are factually functionally better and last longer.

However if you are going to spend $40 or less the WB is among the best in that class.

The personal preference is how much its worth to you to shoot with better rests.

For me the ripcords and QAD are worth the money but IF I was going to spend $40 or less the WB would be my choice but I haven't tried them all.

So who has a WB they'd mail temporarily to KS? I have an Octane Hostage off of a customer's bow, but it's not a full-surround (basically a NAP Quik-Tune). Wouldn't break my heart going through the motions to test tuning and run pins over the chronograph to compare it to a Code Red or Ultra.

Experimental design is pretty straight forward - fletching life is a hard one to test, just on number of shots to cause a failure, but speed and ease of tuning are easy enough.

Of course, this DOES fall prey to the same weakness - comparing a $50 WB to a $100-150 drop away.

I have experience with the WB, quick tune, and code red.

WB worked fine but did wear out but no tuning problems for me, the quick tune brushes started breaking plum off during shots after about a year, and the code red is flawless for me(the felt has to be replace occasionally)

Ive killed deer with all 3 but the quick tune did break while shooting a deer and I lost the meat before I was able to find him.

I'll see if I have one somewhere but I think I probably gave them away.