Carbon - Partial Retraction
 

Everyone here knows by now that I am not a fan of carbon arrows. I' ve never tried a single brand that would shoot broadheads with any degree of accuracy that I consider acceptable for a hunting arrow.

Well, JeffB sent me some arrows to try out. One ACC (which I' ve always known was an excellent arrow, but was too cheap to buy), a black Carbon Express Select and several Carbon Express Hunter Selects.

No need to say much about the ACC. Their reputation is well deserved. Excellent results all the way through my trials, as expected. It' s the CX Selects that have really gotten my attention.

First thing I noticed is they have the same fault as all other carbons I' ve tried. Inconsistent inside diameters. I tried all the inserts in all the arrows, and paired the inserts to the arrows they fit best. This is something most pro shops will not do for you. Then I checked all the arrows for straightness. These Selects are definitely the straightest ICS-type carbons I have messed with, all the way to the ends on full length shafts. Unfortunately, I was not able to get hold of a grain scale to check for weight variances, but shooting them pretty much showed me that would be a moot point anyway.

These arrows were all fletched with 4" vanes, size 6075 and the test bow was my Hoyt ProTec, LX Pro limbs, Accuwheels, set at 60 pounds and 33.5" draw, barebow and 3-under fingers release. I' ve shot this style off and on for many years and am quite good at it. My bow is tuned to shoot Easton Epic 340' s, for 3D, and I did not do any further tuning. The Hunter Selects spun true, the black CX had some wobble. Probably due to less than perfect insert fit.

I used two different heads. Bear Razorheads, 125 gns, and Magnus II 2-blade heads mounted on 35 gn adaptors for 160 gns total weight. I chose this head because it is wide and unvented. If any head in my inventory would plane off, this is the head that will do it. I wanted to make the test as tough as possible, and 160 grains on this 32.5" arrow is pushing the envelope for the spine range.

Long story short (I know... too late for that;)), at 20 yards the Razorheads flew like darts on all these arrows, straight to point of aim. With the Magnus heads, Hunter Selects shot great, but the black Select (the wobbler) flew consistently low, left.

I backed up to 45 yards. Again, the Razorheads flew great and went straight to point of aim. The Magnus also shot to point of aim on the Hunter Selects, but there was some visible fishtailing. I' m sure that is due to the 4" vanes not being enough to overcome that head' s steerage. The black Select still shot low left.

I will be refletching these arrows with 5" feathers and testing them again with the Magnus heads, but I am VERY impressed with what I learned today.

At 12 grains per inch, the Hunter Selects have enough weight to keep my heavy arrow preference happy and they' re still light enough to give me a bump in speed over the 2315' s I normally use. I' m convinced when they' re refletched with 5" feathers they will shoot straight and true, even with the biggest, nastiest head I' m likely to use. This is the first all carbon arrow I' ve run across that I would feel comfortable carrying in my hunting quiver.

Soooo.... Not ALL carbon arrows are junk. :) I promised Jeff I would make a partial retraction, and there it is.

RE: Carbon - Partial Retraction
 

Art.
Tell me its not so are we converting you away from your beloved 2315' s [:o];):D

RE: Carbon - Partial Retraction
 

Aussie, I' ve been TRYING to be converted for five years now. Looks like I might finally stand a decent chance of fulfilling that goal. :D

RE: Carbon - Partial Retraction
 

The neeeeeeeeed for speeeeeeeeeeeeeed has begun:D:D:D

In a couple months he will be buying hunting arrows from High Country[:o][:o];)

RE: Carbon - Partial Retraction
 

Now that.......my friends......was funny !!! :D I almost fell out of my chair !!!

RE: Carbon - Partial Retraction
 

[:o]

RE: Carbon - Partial Retraction
 

LOL! I knew I shouldn' t have mentioned speed. It' s only a tiny bump, Rack! My 2315' s weight 580 grains. The Hunter Selects should weigh around 540. I' ll have to do some comparison on the chrony though, because it seems like these things fly a good deal flatter than my fat shafts.

By the way, these arrows are 33" long, not 32.5" . That makes ' em even more better. I can shoot ' em out of my recurve without worrying about hacking off my forefinger with the broadhead. ;)

RE: Carbon - Partial Retraction
 

Rack.
With Art' s draw lenght he can shoot fence posts faster than I can carbons @ 28" draw[:-][:o];):D

RE: Carbon - Partial Retraction
 

Rack,

I actually got an interesting Email from Arthur just a few minutes ago. It reads:

" Jeff,

Thanx for those awesome carbon arrows. Now what I want to know is this.

Does Bowtech make anything around 34" axle to axle, 6" brace height,dual hard cams w/ bult in overdraw that will accomodate a 33" draw and 80 pounds? I figure I will be smoking these bad boys in the 340s w/ Mechs! That' ll show all those weenies @ the range!

Speed Kills,
Arthur"

[:o] I couldn' t believe it!

Of course I' m not being serious in any way shape or form!:D

I would like to point out that

A) The Carbon Express arrows in question were Terminator Selects, not the standard CX arrows.

and

B) I didn' t actually make Art put up this " partial retraction" , though I mentioned in hindsight to him, I should have made a bet with him! :D

Arthur,

Glad you like the arrows. Would you mind elaborating a bit on how each arrow ranked for straightness for the benefit of the readership? :D I want people to see I' m not just foaming at the mouth here when I get on my Arrow Shaft high-horse ;):D

RE: Carbon - Partial Retraction
 

ROTHFL, Jeff :D Truth be known, I' ve always been kinda curious to see what I could do to a chronograph with a rig like that.;)

You mean you want me to tell them the Selects were straighter than the ACC? In all honesty, they were! .002 TIR on the Selects vs .003 TIR on the ACC. Actually, I' m still in shock. Like I said, these are the straightest ICS-type arrows I' ve had in hand. Beman, GoldTip, Easton, PSE... none of them are anywhere close to these, expecially at the very ends of the shaft. The stuff most people get to cut off.

The only real beef I' ve got is inside diameter variances and insert fit. Like I said in my e-mail, I' d like to see an alignment rib on the back end of the insert to minimize the tendency for the insert to get cocked over on installation in a slightly oversize shaft. I' m almost certain that was the problem with the black Select, but the epoxy set up before I got around to checking alignment on it.

Now the question is, how how impressed am I going to be with straightness on these Selects after a couple months of use. Right now, I am liking these arrows.

RE: Carbon - Partial Retraction
 

Art:

Well, old timer, I guess I' ll be leaving you where the trail forks. Looks like you are going the way of the " zoomy" club. :)

Let me know what you want for those old faithful 2315 aluminums. I shoot a 30.75 length. According to your draw length, I' ll have room to cut them down. [:-]

Watch them splinters! :D

RE: Carbon - Partial Retraction
 

Arthur,

Yep that' s the kicker...how long will they last. :D I' m having that problem right now w/ my month and a half-old Goldtip XT' s. Arrows that were .005 to .006 TIR (over 28" ) are now approaching .010 TIR if not more. Very dissapointing. [:' (]

As far as the starightness goes, yeah I think in both cases the straightness was incredible on both The Terms and A/C/Cs, and although I knew those Terms were straight I thought they would be about double what they actually are.

A/C/C max TIR tolerance is .006 over shaft length minus 2 inches. In your case over a 30" span (32" shaft). That is a very typical for an A/C/C . You' ll see a few here and there at max tolerance, but like that one, the majority come in far below that.

The T-selects are rated .003 over a 28" span. Again, way under spec as they are 33" .

Of course, straightness is only only one factor,and within reason, the third most important factor.

Regardless, it' s refreshing to see something actually as advertised or better.

Enjoy the arrows...

I' m checking into that bow for ya ;)

RE: Carbon - Partial Retraction
 

C - No ya don' t! Those 2315' s are my safe haven. As long as I' ve got them in reserve I know I' ve got something that will ALWAYS work. I' m still in experimental mode here. Besides, I doubt very many of these guys consider a 540 grain arrow in the zoomy category, carbon or not. ;)

Jeff, you don' t mean to tell me that it' s not the gospel that " carbon is either straight or broken" ?? [:o][:o];)

RE: Carbon - Partial Retraction
 

I' m a 2315 fan myself!!! Only 29 inches though:D I don' t have that much a difference in sight marks out to 40 yards for hunting between the 540 grain 2315' s and the 460 grain carbons I also use. The aluminums are cheaper and more consistent between arrows, which for hunting gets my vote[8D]

RE: Carbon - Partial Retraction
 

Who' da thunk it. ArthurP shooting carbons. No wonder the weather has been so weird lately. :D

I think Art is a closet speed freak. :D He' s already got that 80lb Black Knight hidden somewhere and only takes it out in the middle of the night to shoot it when nobody is looking. He' s probably been shootin over 400 fps since last year.;)

RE: Carbon - Partial Retraction
 

Not at all. I shoot it in the middle of the night to watch the sparks of molten steel come flying off the field points. I need to find some field points made from depleted uranium ' cuz these mild steel points don' t hold up to the air friction. :D

The neighbors kinda raise Cain when they get rocked out of their beds by the sonic boom tho... ;)