Speed, or Weight
09-02-2003, 09:31 PM
#61
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Speed, or Weight
Understood, Jeff. And no offense taken from any of your posts. I enjoy discussing such issues with people that have actual reasoning behind the points of view they hold.
But you' re right about taking the thread way off base. My apologies, Dan!
But you' re right about taking the thread way off base. My apologies, Dan!
09-02-2003, 11:58 PM
#62
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 77
RE: Speed, or Weight
No offense taken Arthur. I find your debate quite interesting. While I do agree that the advancements in bow design have changed the sport, I don' t think it has ruined it.
Like you and many others here, I shoot year round. I can' t help but think that all the time I have spent helping teach adults new to archery and the children I have taught archery to in Hunters Education hasn' t helped further the sport in some way.
Archery is archery, you and I just enjoy it with different tools. I equally respect the traditional archer that can put a homemade arrow on meat as I do the target archer that can hit an X ring at 90 meters.
Regardless, Im going after elk in another week and a half with heavy instead of light. I have been glassing up some trophy bulls lately. I hope to have a good story to share when I get back.
Thanks to all that have posted to this thread.
Dan
Like you and many others here, I shoot year round. I can' t help but think that all the time I have spent helping teach adults new to archery and the children I have taught archery to in Hunters Education hasn' t helped further the sport in some way.
Archery is archery, you and I just enjoy it with different tools. I equally respect the traditional archer that can put a homemade arrow on meat as I do the target archer that can hit an X ring at 90 meters.
Regardless, Im going after elk in another week and a half with heavy instead of light. I have been glassing up some trophy bulls lately. I hope to have a good story to share when I get back.
Thanks to all that have posted to this thread.
Dan
09-03-2003, 01:54 AM
#63
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 174
RE: Speed, or Weight
I am still trying to figure out how
" using those bows to shoot 350 gn arrows at 525 fps. Frankly, it' s going to be the end of bowhunting when we get to that point."
I' ll bet that was said when the first compound was invented!
How does BETTER equipment " KILL BOWHUNTING" ???
We have NO lack of deer!!! and our success ratios are starting to ligitimate bowhunting as a method of population control.
Don' t like all this " excessive mechanization" ??? Get rid of that hoity toity bow and grab a pointed stick to kill your bison!!!
PERSONALLY, I LOVE shooting my bow for both hunting AND target shooting...the target guys think I' m shooting spots with my hunting bow...and others think I' m hunting with my target bow...FINE WITH ME!!! I LIKE being able to put an arrow exactly where I want (yeah...the deer might move...but I can still pick my spot to within an inch or two and KNOW the arrow with be there...I can' t do that with trad stuff)
back to the beginning...as far as the tests go. they are there to tell only one story. What happens to penetration when you compare something light and fast to something heavy and slow that have the same KE. Hell, it doesn' t even have to be arrows! The FACT remains, that a fast light arrow with the same KE as a slow heavy arrow can/will penetrate just as well or better. No matter the media (foam, water, or deer) KE is simply the best gauge for judging penetration. One can bury one' s head in the sand all he/she wants, that doesn' t change it. calling it names won' t change it, saying it will kill bowhunting won' t change it.
As for philosophy (which I rather do enjoy...though this was a scientific discussion) I' ll leave you with these.
" a hit with a pellet gun is infinatly more effective than a miss from a canon"
" perception trumps reality...but doesn' t change it"
" the future of bowhunting is not it' s past...but it' s future"
" sticks and stones may break my bones...but only if you hit me"
" don' t fear the future...or in the future you' ll be feared"
" it' s hard to see where you going when your always looking back"
Excerpted quotes by me " Speed or Weight"
[8D][8D]
" using those bows to shoot 350 gn arrows at 525 fps. Frankly, it' s going to be the end of bowhunting when we get to that point."
I' ll bet that was said when the first compound was invented!
How does BETTER equipment " KILL BOWHUNTING" ???
We have NO lack of deer!!! and our success ratios are starting to ligitimate bowhunting as a method of population control.
Don' t like all this " excessive mechanization" ??? Get rid of that hoity toity bow and grab a pointed stick to kill your bison!!!
PERSONALLY, I LOVE shooting my bow for both hunting AND target shooting...the target guys think I' m shooting spots with my hunting bow...and others think I' m hunting with my target bow...FINE WITH ME!!! I LIKE being able to put an arrow exactly where I want (yeah...the deer might move...but I can still pick my spot to within an inch or two and KNOW the arrow with be there...I can' t do that with trad stuff)
back to the beginning...as far as the tests go. they are there to tell only one story. What happens to penetration when you compare something light and fast to something heavy and slow that have the same KE. Hell, it doesn' t even have to be arrows! The FACT remains, that a fast light arrow with the same KE as a slow heavy arrow can/will penetrate just as well or better. No matter the media (foam, water, or deer) KE is simply the best gauge for judging penetration. One can bury one' s head in the sand all he/she wants, that doesn' t change it. calling it names won' t change it, saying it will kill bowhunting won' t change it.
As for philosophy (which I rather do enjoy...though this was a scientific discussion) I' ll leave you with these.
" a hit with a pellet gun is infinatly more effective than a miss from a canon"
" perception trumps reality...but doesn' t change it"
" the future of bowhunting is not it' s past...but it' s future"
" sticks and stones may break my bones...but only if you hit me"
" don' t fear the future...or in the future you' ll be feared"
" it' s hard to see where you going when your always looking back"
Excerpted quotes by me " Speed or Weight"
[8D][8D]
09-03-2003, 05:15 AM
#64
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Speed, or Weight
" perception trumps reality...but doesn' t change it"
A Cape Buff would show you the difference between perception and reality. Take your puny 350 gn arrows and go chase one of those buggers.
Oh, wait. They' re not legal for hunting heavy, dangerous game over yonder, are they. They mandate minimum arrow weights for the big boys. Wonder why that is?
As far as not being able to see where I' m going, my boy, I' ve headed up that path, taken a look up up ahead and saw where it was leading, then turned around and went the other way. Fortunately, I was born without the lemming gene and do not feel compelled to follow the herd off the cliff.
Archery may be evolving. They say that dinosaurs evolved into birds. If so, at some point they quit being dinosaurs, didn' t they. At what point in archery' s evolution will it quit being archery? Bowtech says they' re taking the arch out of archery, right there in their advertising. Maybe we need to start calling your form of shooting ' flattery' . You do realize there ain' t no such thing as flattery season.
09-03-2003, 07:41 AM
#65
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,994
RE: Speed, or Weight
But flattery will get you somewhere, won' t it?
Arthur, I guess when it boils down to it, I see a deer as being infinatley more penetratable than a block of foam, so it only makes sense to me that if the light fast arrow penetrates slightly farther than the slow heavy, it will in deer as well, especially when lubed by fluids.
As for light fast not being legal " over there" , has anyone actually tested light fast and found them to be inferior, or are they simply repeated old aged dogma? Perhaps the guy in charge are all traditionalists...
Take the FDA food pyramid for instance. It' s widely promoted as THE way to eat, but is blowing our population up faster than you can say twinkie. Just because it is accepted practice, doesn' t make it so. Same goes for a lot of things governments force on us poor stupid folk who don' t know better.
If Africans have done extensive research and testing as a basis to form their light fast no no law on, I' d sure love to read it.
Arthur, I guess when it boils down to it, I see a deer as being infinatley more penetratable than a block of foam, so it only makes sense to me that if the light fast arrow penetrates slightly farther than the slow heavy, it will in deer as well, especially when lubed by fluids.
As for light fast not being legal " over there" , has anyone actually tested light fast and found them to be inferior, or are they simply repeated old aged dogma? Perhaps the guy in charge are all traditionalists...
Take the FDA food pyramid for instance. It' s widely promoted as THE way to eat, but is blowing our population up faster than you can say twinkie. Just because it is accepted practice, doesn' t make it so. Same goes for a lot of things governments force on us poor stupid folk who don' t know better.
If Africans have done extensive research and testing as a basis to form their light fast no no law on, I' d sure love to read it.
09-03-2003, 07:57 AM
#66
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: sardis ms USA
Posts: 561
RE: Speed, or Weight
to each his own!that is what makes the world tick.the so called purist and traditionals don' t have enough followers to control the animal population by themselves.these kind of posts are what drives me away from a website for several days at a time.what drivel![&o]
09-03-2003, 08:14 AM
#67
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Speed, or Weight
I feel like I' m the only Republican at a Hillary rally!
Rangeball, I' ve done a search and can' t find any studies. May be that they base their requirments on what the PH' s say. They don' t like their hunters getting stomped to death before they tip the hired hands, ya know.
Rangeball, I' ve done a search and can' t find any studies. May be that they base their requirments on what the PH' s say. They don' t like their hunters getting stomped to death before they tip the hired hands, ya know.
