Broadhead flight
 

Forum members. There appears to be a member on this forum who is absolutely steadfast in his opinion that Broadheads cannot, because of their design, shoot to the same point of impact as field tips. No matter how many times I have tried to convince this individual otherwise he refuses to accept what I am telling him.
I have tried and tried to explain (even through video links) to this individual that you CAN fine tune your bow/rest so that your BHs and FT hit the same POI. He believes that you must sight in for your broadheads as there is no way they will impact the target the same as field tips.
Can anyone else provide their imput on this subject?

In short? Some people don' know how to tune a bow or even know that there is such a thing. These and many others would certainly know nothing about fine tuning. Then there are others that are just too lazy.

You just can't convince everybody so don't lose any sleep over it.

It can be done
 

I have done this many times, at least out to 40 yards. A few bows have been more difficult than others, but I usually can get pretty close if not right on. Some guys will yap about trying to get broadheads to hit with field tips being a "compromise tune" and not really ideal tune for either. IMO, if you are going to get them to hit together, you have to get the arrow coming straight off the bow. That minimizes/eliminates the steering effect of the broadhead on the front of the arrow. It should also make the broadhead flight as good as it can get, plus maximize penetration.

to be honest and this is just my $.02

field tips and broad heads will give you different FOC

field tips fly through the air different that fixed or mech blades and over long distances will alter your arrow path

Don't shoot just field points and screw in a hunting head to go hunting, practice with the heads you intend to shoot. Know how they fly, and adjust to using them.

field tips are perfect for target shooting
broadheads are perfect for hunting

use and practice with what you plan to shoot at.

KK - therein lies the secret to a finely tuned bow. Once you tune your bow to where the FTs and BHs are shooting to the same POI - then at reasonable bowhunting distances (out to 60 yds) there witll very little, if any change in POI. I do agree that because of the varying length between a BH and FT that the FOC will be slightly different.

Last year when it came time to practice with my broadheads, they were off from poi of field points. Spot on the year before. Took bow to shop and checked paper tune. Sure enough, a little tail kick. Adjusted rest, got perfect bullet hole, took bow back out and slick tricks shot same poi as field points out to 60 yards as they should. Proper tune equals same poi.

I agree the difference should be small between the two if you have good form and the bow is tuned correctly.

I use fieldtips all yr long but my final dial in is with a practice head, still shoot fieldtips during hunting season to practice but don't change anything.

Also don't be quick to alter your sights. Some days may just be crappy with form or your just not feeling it. Try again the next day or so.

Dang brother I misunderstood your PM and thought you were talking about tuning an arrow to broad head, as far as Field Tips and Broad shooting the same. If a bow is tuned properly they should fly the same however; depending on weather conditions a fixed blade broad fly can be greatly effected by the weather. The blades are more sensitive to wind and heat thermos, than a Field Tip. However a field tip and a mechanical should always fly the same depending if they are the same weight.
Much like an aircraf being effected by the wind; we all know that larger wings will be effected more than a smaller wing aircraft, and a lighter air craft will be effected more than a heavy aircraft.. One reason I shoot super heavy for hunting. (over 540 gn.s) total arrow weight.


I have different bows set up for various things, one for 3D in which I normally shoot an arrow with field tip weighing around the 400 grain area, also with different sights. For hunting I will use a broad head that is at least 150 more grains than my 3D bow and use different sights, stabilizer, but I can tell you that all of my bows are perfectly tuned.

Rev, I wholeheartely agree that shooting a fixed blade in windy conditions may or could cause erratic arrow flight or cause an arrow to veer off course. But Could not the same be said for wind catching the fletching?
I know there are times when we are not hunting in ideal conditions (wind, rain, excessive heat) but under normal shooting conditions at yardages 40 yds and less with no wind or slight breeze, the average shooter should find no discernable POI difference between a FT and BH out of a proberly tuned bow. Wouldn't you agree?

Your right, at 40 yards and under if tuned right it shouldn't make any difference, to me 40 yards is close anyway. If something is wondering off at 40 or less you have some issues with your bow!

I shoot out to 75 yards, just to make sure my form is consistant!

Well I only go as far as 60 cause that's all the pins I have. But I bet at 75 yds its pretty easy to find a flaw in your form. Not much room for error at that range.

Foc has nothing to do with it. Gravity doesn't know or careif where the weight is. It just pulls the arrow to the earth.

A broadhead will have more resistance due to more surface area but that doesn't come into play until way past normal hunting distances. Especially if the arrow is tuned properly and has adequate fletch.

Gravity may pull at it no matter what is there. But to have a proper tuned arrow your FOC is important.

Or go put 100gr at the middle of your arrow and shoot it and then move 100gr to the nock and shoot it. Arrow will weigh the same for gravity to pull on it but your now FOC is way off.

FOC is part of a tuned arrow.

Yes but your original post made it sound like a broadhead will have a different point of impact because of of a higher foc. This should only be true if the broadhead is actually heavier.

The 1% to 2% foc increase because of broadhead length is not going to make a broadhead impact lower.100 grain on the front of the shaft is all that matters.

I actually agree with the rest of your post.

Broadheads can be tuned to the same poi but will not have the same flight characteristics as fp's.

Normally when i get into this discussion and I'm being told its not possible I just shrug my shoulders and say

" I dont know, mine hit the same spot and I tuned it that way"

"Can you explain why mine hit the same spot?"

I agree the FOC change will be marginal but going from a blunt tip to a Grim Reaper SS You have another inch of broadhead sticking out front.

I prefer to shoot and dial in the head I plan to hunt with. Could try to dial both fieldtips and broadheads in but find it just easier to dial in the broadheads and practice still but not make any adjustments.

I say your doing pretty good. We all have our ways of dialing in. At the end of the day all that matters is you can put an ethical shot on your target be alive or paper.



!

yes it can be done but it takes some effort, a lot of guys aren't willing to do it much less learn how. I can shoot a bare shaft with field points and fixed blade broadheads together out to 80 yds.

Bare shaft at 80 yards?:confused:

I thought the same thing but.......

Bare shaft at 80 yards? I've been doing this for almost 40 years and I'm sorry, but............

Well you have to put a field point on the end of it but if the spine and bow is tuned right you sure don't need any fletch to hit the bullseye. Olympic shooters do this all the time.....

Not at 80 ;)

The slightest breeze at that distance could cost them a $70 arrow.But they do have an indoor training facility.:)

well I shoot outside and could care less about the slightest breeze, it is not an issue. Now a 30 mph cross wind is, vanes or no vanes.

You guys don't believe me... oh well, carry on :D

If it is possible, than how can it be that you can get a bow dialed in perfectly for BH, but have to adjust the rest toget it perfectly dialed in for FP? It would appears that if you can get them to have the same POI at one setting that you should not be able to have two different settings where they each fly and group well?

Side note: many of you state that it is always possible, however given some situation ie long draw, etc it may not be possible. Just what I have come to realize.

Turk - No, you don't keep adjusting your rest for ft then bh. You do it once and unless you change something like tip weight, poundage, arrow spine, draw length, you don't have to do it again. Your FTs and BH will hit the same POI.
As for the bare shafts at 80 yds, although it may be possible but I would have to see it to believe it.

Turk, if you have to use two different rest settings, one for broadheads and one for field points, the arrow spine is wrong.

that is basically what I have to do. I only shoot BH now as it just made more sense. I can shoot well out to 70 with my BH so I just leave the adjustment where it stands. I have had people chart my bow/arrow and it comes back fine?? here is my set up.


2011 carbon element, 30", 70#, QAD Ultra pro.
30" maximum hunter dual spine weight forward (the new dual spine shoots different than the original weight forward), 100gr heads.

No matter what I did with this bow or my old one I could never get them to group well for same POI. I have set up my brother and cousins bow and have had no problems getting them to have the same POI (29" and 27" set ups), but for me it just never works out.

If you have a suggestion I am all ears.

Turk, so 30" draw at 70lbs with a peep and loop on the string. You shoot the Maxima Hunter KV 350 with 100gr heads cut to 30" correct? If so, that arrow is to weak. If you went to the regular Maxima Hunter 450 you would be really close. Might have to cut a 1/4" off the shaft to be perfect though, just have to experiment and see.

Turk, why are your arrows so long?

If you cut about 2 inches off the arrow you are shooting now you should get real close to a perfect spine for your set up.

That is correct. Everything I have read and when I have asked people to plug it in the computer programs it comes back as ok, but borderline ok.

So you say that a Maximum 450 cut to 30" or 29.75" would almost be perfect? Is this ran through a program or what you think, (I am not trying to come off as rude I am just curious)?

My arrows are that long for really only two reasons.

1- My draw is 30" and so I had them cut to 30." This gives me about 2-2.5" of arrow past my rest.

2- I hunt big game and wanted weight on my arrow. an extra inch or two does that.

Sooo...You are saying if I cut the 350's to 28" at a 30" draw that should put me much closer to perfect spine? Is this your opinion or something ran through a software program, (again please don't take it the wrong way, I am just trying to learn and understand your thought process)?

Its out of a program that I find to be very close with my bows and it shows your present set up not even close to borderline. Let me ask you this, when you have your bow dialed in to shoot fieldpoints and then you switch to broadheads, which way do you move the rest? Cutting 2" is still going to be to weak but it would be an improvement.

This comes from years of experience and using software when I need to. Cutting the 2 inches will likely still not give you the perfect spine but it will be much closer than were you are now. If you can fork out the cash the 450's is where you really need to go.

An good example is my own set up. I have an Invasion set at 71 pounds and 29.5" draw length. My arrows (Easton ACC 3-71's) were initially cut to 29 inches. Broadhead flight was only decent and no matter how much fine tuning I did the broadhead tipped arrows just weren't getting it. I had cut them that length with out running though OT2 knowing I could go shorter if I needed to. After dicking around with tuning for a couple of days I ran my numbers through OT2 and the perfect spine for my set up was actually 27.5" with a 100 grain tip. Once I cut the arrows everything came together and broadhead flight was perfect as far as I cared to shoot (70 yards) at a target.

My BH hit at 20 about 2" to the right of my FP. As the distances get further the seperation increases.

So in your program what length of an arrow (say the Maxium Hunter dual spine weight forward 450's) should I be shooting?

Does your software show an optimum arrow cut to 'x' length that would be the best spinned for my setup?

Two questions (again I apprecite all your insight, I am just trying to learn from this):

1- Does 1" of draw really cause this much change in spine? My cousin shoots 29" and has his arrows cut to 29" (same as mine) and he has zero issues?

2- How come their charts and another software program (I had asked on this forum, I will try and dig up the advice I received a while back) show that I should be fine?

So in your program what length of an arrow (say the Maxium Hunter dual spine weight forward 450's) should I be shooting?

Does your software show an optimum arrow cut to 'x' length that would be the best spinned for my setup?

Two questions (again I apprecite all your insight, I am just trying to learn from this):

1- Does 1" of draw really cause this much change in spine? My cousin shoots 29" and has his arrows cut to 29" (same as mine) and he has zero issues?

2- How come their charts and another software program (I had asked on this forum, I will try and dig up the advice I received a while back) show that I should be fine?


---I know I am asking you the same questions as screamin, I really am just looking for more opinions from those with more knowledge on the subject than I.

I don't have the program on the computer here at the house but with your specs the 450's with a 100 grain tip and fletched with blazers you should cut the arrows to about 28 - 29 inches. If TFOX chimes in again I think he has OT2 on his computer. He may be able to run the numbers for you.

Yes, it absolutely can make a huge difference.

Is your cousin shooting the exact same bow with the exact same draw weight?

But right off the bat his arrows are 1" shorter and his draw length is 1" shorter. Both of these contribute to needing a less stiff arrow. If he is shooting a different bow with a different cam this would also effect the arrow needed.


The charts are only a very general guide line. For instance...... take two bows both set to 70 pounds and 30" DL. One bow has a 6" brace height, dual cams and an IBO of 350 fps. The other bow has an 8" brace height, a soft single cam and an IBO of 320 fps. These two bows would need very drastically different arrows set ups but if you just go by the numbers on the charts you will end up with very wrong arrows for one or both of the bows.

bb-

Very enlightening! Thank you for taking the time to comment on my posts, I appreciate it.




Hopefully someone who has the program could run my numbers and see just what size shaft arrow (and which arrow) would work out best for my current set up?

Bulls I no longer have OT2. I just prefer using archers advantage. Much more user friendly. However I think you have this one covered.

My AA program is on my wifes laptop and she is studying for 5 test this week so im on my phone for a while.

Broadheads hitting right of field points IS a weak arrow reaction.

Easy to check. Back poundage off 5#. See if it gets better. If it does. You know you need lower poundage, stiffer arrows or shorter arrows.