What' s going on ?
 

Last night I ran over to the club to shoot through paper, to see how things are going with my new arrows.My bow is an SQ2, 27" draw, pulling around 72 to 73,maxed out.I was thinking of hunting at this weight,because I wanted to use mech.heads again.Just to keep the tunning and shooting smooth.
Well, my 27" 2315' s are not comming out of the bow the way I thought they would.I' m useing an 85 grn.tip.No matter what I tryied, the tear remained the same.The were tearing at about 10 o' clock, maybe an inch.I tryied EVERYTHING I could think of, NO CHANGE.The fletched shafts tear better, but not a bullet hole.I have 4" helical feathers on them.The shafts weigh in @ 457, and are doing between 246 and 248 fps.
I' m pretty sick of this tunning crap !!!!!!!.My stinkin short arms don' t help much either.I messed my shoulder up on vacation, so drawing my bow at the higher weight is' nt as smooth as I' d like.I don' t know if I' m going to be able to get used to it in time for some GOOD practice.Bow season is only a few months away now.
What to do [:' (]
I tell you, it does' nt help watching tapes like PRIMETIME 7, over and over.Seeing those guys shooting carbons,FAST, with mech.heads, with regular BH, only slightly off set fletch, feathers,vanes,,,And I know low poundage too !.MECH.HEADS, with low poundage,,,DAMN my short arms :(
I would really take ANY suggestions to heart.I' m not a novice,I have taken my share of deer,but it seems I' m working too hard for a GOOD shooting rig :(

RE: What' s going on ?
 

85 grains is awful tiny for a big honkin' arrow like 2315. In fact, checking the charts, 2315' s are overspined at 72 pounds, 27" and 85 gn tip. You need to go to a 125 grain head to bring the spine in.

RE: What' s going on ?
 

I agree with Arthur and if the point weight doesn' t completely fix the problem,try another arrow that is slightly lighter on spine.


If that doesn' t fix it,you may be torquing the bow or there could be cam lean,bent axles,to much tension on your cables,under rotated cams,over rotated cams or a whole slew of problems.


A perfect bullet hole may not be the absolute best but in my experienc,a bow that punches good holes,doesn' t have to be perfect but good will give you best penetration.Worry about a clean flying arrow and one that groups well and don' t pull your hair out over paper.It is probably you causing it anyway.

RE: What' s going on ?
 

Dont beat yourself up over a high left tear! Especially bare shaft!

Look , this is my new found philosophy on paper tuning for a hunting setup. I start by matching my arrows as perfect as I can get to my current setup. With many years experience building and selling arrows it comes natural to me(remembering what shaft to shoot with what setup) but there are many excellent programs out there to get you the correct arrows to match your setup. Before I could offer you advice I' d need to know your arrow length and specs of your bow.
Anyway , I prefer to be as close to perfect center shot as I possibly can! So, when it comes to paper tuning I only use it for hunting scenarios , meaning that the majority of people paper tune at distances of 3 - 6 feet from the paper. Well , step back and shoot an arrow thru paper from your closest hunting scenario shot and see what happens. Try it at 7 - 10 yards. Unless your setup is way off you should be getting bullet holes at that distance (with fletched shafts). Let the fletching do it' s job and straighten the arrow out. The biggest part of paper tuning for bowhunters is checking to see if you have good arrow flight. Well , who the hell cares if you have a small tear at 6 feet? Are you gonna be shooting at game that close?
If having a bullet hole at 6 feet means that much to you then by all means feel free to chase the tears by moving your rest or your nock point!

RE: What' s going on ?
 

i have a question, if your hunting whitetail ,why do you need 73 lbs ?? unless your going for 50 yard shots .

RE: What' s going on ?
 

Xibowhunter, I' m shooting 73 pounds because my ARMS ARE TOOOO SHORT !!!! " Only have a 27" draw length, any REALLY WANT TO USE MECH.HEADS [:o] So, I' m looking for a pass through from my tree stand, which is always up around 24' or 25' .Mech.heads need the extra KE.Also, my bow this year is not a real power house (SQ2, 8" BH).I' m already thinking about a nice new " 2004" , with a 6 1/2" BH [:-].

RE: What' s going on ?
 

I personally don' t like the combination of aluminum and expandables.I feel the oscilation of the shaft on impact and the opening of the head,there is too much energy lost and penetration greatly suffers.That is my opinion and I don' t know how many feel the same but I would think it would be worth considering with a short draw.


If you don' t like the poundage then back it down.PERIOD.If you like it then don' t worry about it.


You can shoot a medium weight carbon with a Rocket Steel head on 65#-67# and as long as it is tuned and shooting straight,you should blow through deer.



If I were shooting 27" draw then I would most likely be shooting something like a Cybertec.Plenty of forgiveness at that draw and shoots plenty hard and also has good a-a.Not suggesting you drop your setup and go buy one but just giving an example of what I would concider a great setup.Your setup is also good but needs some slight attention.Point weight for example.

RE: What' s going on ?
 

HEY DROPTINE:

YOU DIDNT SAY BUT I,M GOIN TO GUESS YOU ARE A RIGHT HANDED SHOOTER
AND THAT YOU SHOOT A RELEASE AID. FIRST OF ALL A N 85 GRAIN HEAD ON A 2315 IS A SERIOUS MISMATCH. THIS COMBO WILL PROBABLY MAKE THE ARROW VERY UNSTABLE AND WAY TO STIFF. IF YOU DONT HAVE ENOUGH WEIGHT ON THE FRONT THE FLETCHING WILL HAVE A HARD TIME STRAIGHTENING THE ARROW FLIGHT. OTHER THINGS TO CHECK ARE FLETCH CLEARANCE AND HAND TORQUE. DONT GET TOO PICKY FOR THAT PERFECT HOLE BUT THE POINT SHOULD TEAR INSIDE THE FLETCHING.
ISHOOT A MATHEWS LEAGACY ON 62#, 28" CARBON EXPRESS 300, GT EXP 100
MECH. HEAD. 4" FLETCH, 30" DRAW------NO PROBLEM WITH PENETRATION. CARBONS AND MECH. HEADS SEEM TO GO TOGETHER.:D


>>>---DAVID-P---SILER-CITY-NC--->

RE: What' s going on ?
 

How does your F.O.C. calculate?

RE: What' s going on ?
 

Dick,I did a check on the F.O.C. when I first fletched them up.They were over 11%, so I' m not concerned with that.You guys are saying I' m a bit to " stiff" with that 85 grn. head, but my Easton catalog from last year shows a 2315 in the column for 27" and 70 plus pounds, with a hard cam.I think I' m going to go to my pro shop and get some carbons.I think it' s time to work with them.Forget how much the arrow wieghs,,build the arrow,,then set the bow to shoot it PERFECT [:-]
Sound like a plan ????.I think I might have to change rests,though.I' m useing a Quick Tune 750,from NAP right now.Might be able to use it if I fletch my shafts off set, instead of helical.I think that should work with a mech.head.
Time will tell ;)

RE: What' s going on ?
 

Totally opposite of what should be done!

Find the perfectly spined arrow first!

RE: What' s going on ?
 

From what I have read here my guess is the 2315 is on the stiff side. I shoot a
Mathews Ultra Max, 6 1/8 inch brace height, 65 lb. draw weight, 2314 28 1/4 inches
with a 100 gr. tip, or a 85 gr. thunderhead, 28 1/2 inch draw. Honestly, going
to a light carbon arrow with a mechanical broadhead is asking for trouble unless
you use weight tubes. I like to keep my total arrow weight above 450 grains or
better yet closer to 500 grains for better penetration. Try bowjackson.com to see
what the say you should be shooting. I used this for my set up and it was right on
the money spine wise.

RE: What' s going on ?
 

Either way will work, as long as you end up shooting with a properly spined arrow. I would say it' s easier to match the arrow to the bow to START...but then fine tune the bow to your arrows.
Try this for tuning...has worked EVERY time for me, and I set up ALL the guy' s bows.
Shoot a couple of arrows (after your satisfied with spine) with braodheads on (say at 10 yards.
Now...without changing ANYTHING, or moving, shoot a couple of field points of matching weight. The field points tell you where to move your rest/nock. Feilds are to the left? Move rest left. FPs too high? move rest up (or nock down)
Get so they are shooting the same group...then go back to 20 yards (fine tuning) repeat untill you get a " matched group"
ULTRA fine tuning? go back to 30-40 yards.
NOTE: SOMETIMES your rest will be SO far off, that you actually need to move it the " wrong way" (Move it right even if the feilds are saying left) I blame this on the arrow flexing too much because it is not in line with the direction of force.) You MUST be somewhat close to center to start.
PERSONALLY, I start with the rest centered, and use a nock point to set my string nock. MOST nock points are injection molded...there is a seam in the exact middle of the nock. Set the nock so the seam is DEAD SQUARE to the string....move your string nock to just touch the nock point.

RE: What' s going on ?
 

dsheally, Why is going to a carbon such a bad idea ?.SSSOOO many guys make them work.ALL MOST EVERY freakin hunting tape I own, somebody is zipping carbons through deer.Guys, gals, low poundage, mech.heads, fixed blades,,you name the combo, and I have it on film, in action, working GREAT.
I' m just getting tired of aluminums,I think.In this day and age, I have less time than ever to put into my archery.I NEED to go to a more trouble free direction,,more " set it, and forget it" ,,so I can shoot it and love it,,know what I mean :D

RE: What' s going on ?
 

Yes your a littl eover-spined but I would rather be over-spined than under. Out of the 400-500 Mathews Ive tuned in the past there is one little trick that seems to work when nothing else does.

Instead of centering the arrow in the berger button hole (arrow rest hole on riser) put the arrow through the bottom half of the hole.

Dont place a whole lot of faith in paper.

FYI - I shoot a 31" 2315 w/ 125 Thunder Heads @ 71 lbs out of a Mathews Feathermax.

RE: What' s going on ?
 

Just on the light carbon/mechanical thing.

I don' t think it' s a problem . I blew through 5 deer last year with a 350 grain arrow (total weight) and 100 grain Spitfires/100 Rocket Hammerheads. Shooting 300 fps . You may not get that speed at your draw length, but I feel like I have way overkill on mine ! Good Luck !!

RE: What' s going on ?
 

Droptines



I would check your foc again.I really don' t think you can get 11% foc on those arrows with 85 grain points.Archers Advantage shows them with an foc of 9% with feathers and 85 gr points with 36 gr inserts.Are you sure they are 27" ?Usually when pulling 27" draw the arrow will be shorter than the draw of the bow.Not always but usually.

RE: What' s going on ?
 

Yes,my draw is 27" ,and my arrows are 27" .I could have swore I check my arrows right after I fletched them with 4" feathers.The balance point was up there.When I did the math, I was surprized.Maybe I was wrong,,but thats water under the bridge for now,,on to carbons.I might try to get a small fixed blade head to fly,but thats not likely,for me anyway.Thanks for all the help guys.I just wish I could meet up with a REAL tunning " guru" ,like one of you guys.I would say," I want this bow to throw carbons into a 4" circle at 40yards" ,name your price !.My pro shop does' nt have the time to give one customer as much attention as I NEED. [X(]

RE: What' s going on ?
 

Droptines, I just had 2 bad experiences before with the light carbons and a
mechanical broadhead. Penetration was very poor on both shots which were
placed behind the shoulder blades as far as I could tell. I found the arrows on
both instances broken off not far from the insert. Some people have good success
with them, but not me. I am sticking with either aluminum arrows or weighted
carbons. Whatever you decide to use try that bowjackson.com link it' s pretty
cool.