Problems Paper Tuning
 

I' m trying to paper tune my new bow and I' m struggling. Here is my equipment:

Hoyt Razortec
64# draw weight
26.5" draw length
Bodoodle Zapper 400 rest
Beman ICS 400 camo hunter arrows. (weighs 436 grains with practice tips)

I' m new to this but I' m following the instructions in my Hoyt owners manual. I have my paper set 6 foot from my target and am shooting 6 foot back from this. By the tear in the paper the book says that my nok is too high. I moved it down 3 times for a total of about 3/8" of an inch with no improvement. According to my bow square, the nok is low now.

Did I not go far enough down?

Also the book says it could be sign of a weak arrow. Don' t really know what this means. Has anyone had any problems with this style of Beman arrows?

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks.

RE: Problems Paper Tuning
 

How much tear.A little high tear might not be a bad thing.You can group well even if the paper isn' t perfect but getting the broadheads tuned will be easier if the paper is good.Good doesn' t mean a perfect bullet hole and a slight tear is acceptable.



I don' t think your arrow is too light on spine(maybe a little stiff,depending on the shaft length)Not stiff enough to hurt anything) so I would check for fletching contact.The arrows could be hitting the rest and be getting thrown upward ,causing the nock high tear.


Lipstick or foot powder on the rest will show up on your fletching and that would indicate that your fletching is hitting.

You may also want to check tiller on the bow.And just for the heck of it,check the timing and see if the modules might be way out.Being way out would be the only way I could see it causing a bad tear but check it just to be sure.

RE: Problems Paper Tuning
 

Make sure you are not getting contact with the rest.Try raising the nock and see if the tear gets better.Or spray the arrow with foot powder or cruex(yeah the jock itch stuff)I find it works best.Sounds like you may be getting some contact.

CB

RE: Problems Paper Tuning
 

It' s a pretty good tear. I thought about the fletching having some contact with the rest so I removed the top 2 speed fins on the bodoodle and it didn' t help. So unless the bottom 2 are having some contact, that' s not it. I will try the foot spray trick tomorrow and see. The cables are withen the performance marks on the cams so I assume they are in time. I will also try raising the nok and seeing if this does anything too. Thanks for the suggestions.

RE: Problems Paper Tuning
 

Sometimes shooting broadheads and field points at the same target and adjusting the rest to make them meet will work. Shoot 2 or 3 fp and 2or3 brdhd at the same target and there will probibly be two groups. The farthest you can consistently group is best. If your brdhds hit left of the fp move the rest to the right and so on. The brdhds steer the arrow so the fp arrow will not be affected as much and eventually the two will shoot in the same spot. You of course have to use the same weight fixed blade heads. This does not work all of the time but it is a method I use often.

RE: Problems Paper Tuning
 

If your nock point is below square, it means either your tiller is off or your cam timing is off or operator error. I usually suspect tiller and operator error.

Measure from the string to where the limbs join the riser on each end of the riser. That is measuring tiller. The measurments should be the same distance for a basic tune job. Make adjustments with the limb bolts to get them equal.

And remember that paper testing is usually as much a test of your shooting form as it is of bow tune. There is an element of skill involved. If you drop your bow arm, heel the grip, torque the bow or a hundred other shooting mistakes, you' re never going to get a good tear in paper. New shooters will make a hundred different mistakes while learning.

At this stage in your development, I' d say you' d be better served by forgetting about poking holes in paper and try tuning broadheads and field points for same point of impact.

RE: Problems Paper Tuning
 

I agree with all of the above:)

I would strongly suggest you look into fletching contact, Rotate the arrows on the nock to achieve better clearance. It may take a little experementing.

Also - doesn' t the bodoodle offer two diff prong tensions?? This also sounds like a rest arm that is too stiff - it will show nock high.

How do you attach release to the string - loop, nocks, eleminator buttons or what? To much nock pinch on the string can do this also.

I agree that a little nock high may be o.k. - but there I never like to leave something that I can' t fix - there is usually a reason - and its better to find out what it is

RE: Problems Paper Tuning
 

It sounds to me like a contact problem....... especially since you have already moved the nock point so much....

Are you using a string loop ? (for your release)

You should LIGHTLY spray the vane area and shaft in that area with foot powder..... let it dry and shoot the arrow at a target. Retreave it and look for anyplace that shows the powder being scraped off..... this will show contact problems..... Another thing to try (if ya can) is remove the cock feather from one arrow - so YOU KNOW there will not be ANY vane/feather contact.... then shoot through the paper - if you see a dramatic improvement - BINGO.... you will then know you have a contact problem......
I went through the fire trying to tune my bow 2 years ago.... I did a LOT of reading on the subject so I know what you are going through !

Tom

RE: Problems Paper Tuning
 

When you say that you are new to this, do you mean to paper tuning, or new to the bow or archery in general?

If you are new to the bow or archery in general, this is what I would do, have a proshop set you up (or do it yourself if you can) at the correct centershot, both horizontally and vertically. Set the nock at about 1/4 - 3/8ths over 90 degrees. Get the correct arrows for the bow and shoot for a while. The tune should be fairly close to allow you to group pretty good. After you are grouping well, then do the final tuning.

The correct tuning can and will corelate with your shooting skills.

RE: Problems Paper Tuning
 

Alot of good suggestions...

Most of the time when I' ve seen this tear and nock adj doesn' t take care of it, it' s either been contact or the rest tension is too stiff. Check for contact first, that' s usually the culprit. You' ll get it figured out... just be patient....someone new to tuning can go plum crazy trying to figure things out. Also I' d recommend going to easton' s site and downloading the tuning guide. It' s got alot of good info, especially for someone new to tuning. :)

RE: Problems Paper Tuning
 

Arthur, I checked the tiller when I purchased the bow and set them equal. It could very well be operator error. I' m new to bowhunting and have probably only shot this between 50-75 times. I' m getting about 2-3" groups at 20 yards.

Rack-attack, as far as I know the bodoodle doesnt have different prong tensions. The model I have, the Zapper, comes in a 300 model for arrows under 399 grains and 400 for arrows over 400 grains. I purchased the 400 model because my arrows with broadheads are coming in at 436 grains. I use an metal loop on my string. It' s the Ultra Nok XL if I' m not mistaken.

eightwgt, with the bodoodle the cock vane goes up. I did remove the top 2 prongs on the bodoodle so the only contack would be the bottom 2 prongs but they could very well be having some contact yet.

BobCo, I' m new to archery. Only shot around 50-75 times. I wish I had a good proshop around but I just don' t that I know of. The place that I bought my bow from pissed me off when I bought it. I wanted them to adjust my poundage and they basically just started wrenching on the bolts and didn' t do the same # of turns. I had to reset the tiller when I got it home. They also told me that there was no way of measuring my draw length without a nok and release so I basically had to do that myself when I got home. I paid full retail for this bow, $700, and expected better service. I' m not going back to them. I used a Saunders bow square to set the nok. It has 2 lines on it where the nok should go. Do I need to go 1/4-3/8" over this mark?

Thanks for all the help guys. After work tonight I' m going to try the spray and see if I' m having contact problems. I' m also going to try a friends arrows that are a little heavier and see if I have an arrow problem. If none of this works, maybe I will just keep shooting and try it again in a month and see if it improves with my shooting form.

RE: Problems Paper Tuning
 

if you are that new to archery don' t even worry about it:D

Get it close and just shoot-shoot-shoot.

Just enjoy the sport without driving yourself crazy.

Your gonna have plenty of time later on to aggravate the heck out of yourself:D

RE: Problems Paper Tuning
 

OK, if there are no other proshops around here is a way for you to set it up yourself.

1. adjust the height of your arrow rest. Your arrow rest with an arrow on it should be set so that the middle thickness of your arrow is in a direct line with the holes that are cut out and threaded on your riser that your arrow rest screws into (try to keep your arrow at 90 degrees to you string, no matter where your nock is set).

2. Adjust your rest for the right/left adjustment. Here is a little trick you can do. Put two allen wrenches in both limb bolts (one in each bolt). Take a rubber band and attach it to the allen wrenches. The space inbetween them will be close very close to your centershot. If you have a single cam bow, chances are that your string is offset somewhat. If this is the case you may have to adjust for this slight offset, ussually a little left. Try to eyeball it looking down an arrow.

3. set your nock at 5/16 above 90 degrees.

You said that they set your tiller for you, but you may want to check it again and make sure it is set equally. I usually check it by running some serving thread between the axles, and not using the bow string at all in the measurement. Make sure that the distance between the thread is even from the thread at 90 degrees to where the limbs attach to the riser.

RE: Problems Paper Tuning
 

Since you are a true beginner, this is a great opportunity to save your sanity. Forget all about paper tuning. Even though there are many true believers in paper tuning, what kind of hole those arrows tear in a sheet of paper is really pretty meaningless. Even tuned to punch ' bullet holes,' a bow isn' t necessarily going to shoot it' s very best set like that.

If you' ve got a dozen arrows, sacrifice a couple to the cause. Strip the vanes off two of them and use the bareshaft method outlined in the Hoyt Tuning Guide. (You can download it in PDF format from the Hoyt website.) Do the rough setup that BobCo told you and then make small adjustments - VERY small adjustments, like 1/64" at a time - to get the bareshafts to hit with the fletched shafts.

RE: Problems Paper Tuning
 

Call Bodoodle. Ask for Louis. Tell him your troubles. Do what he tells you.

:)

Seriously, he' s the production manager for bodoodle and is infinitely familiar with tuning for this rest. I' m sure he' d be glad to help.

RE: Problems Paper Tuning
 

Although I do agree that it isn' t time to get too involved in the tuning process.I do think if their is fletching contact that you need to get it resolved.This may frustrate you when when your shooting and your groups just don' t get any better.


I just looked at the rest in question and I would say there is a strong possibility of contact.Maybe calling Boddodle might be a good idea.

RE: Problems Paper Tuning
 

I agree with TFOX, set the bow with the tuning I described, but don' t overlook contact.

RE: Problems Paper Tuning
 

Howdy Nebraska Bowhunter,
Where you located at? I' m actually close to the hemroid, er Omaha area but have to drive about 45 minutes to get to the good pro shop. Didn' t even buy the bow there but they set it up for me. Helped me paper tune the thing to shoot bullet holes, and now my broadheads fly to the same impact spot as my field points. If your not too far, stop by Full Draw Archery around 144th and Industrial Road. Hope this helps.

Paper Tuning Problems? This is How I Do It
 

Yes your nock point probably is too low now. When you set the bow at an even tiller you were on the right track. I usually set the bow at even tiller two or even three turns out from max so you got room to tune the tiller. Then set the nock point so that the arrow is at a 90degree angle to the bowstring. Thats probably real close to where you started and would quite predictably result in either a perfect arrow or a high tear. You would then crank down on the lower limb bolt to get the nock of the arrow to produce a level tear and a level arrow in the target. Your end result should be a tuned bow with an acceptable nockpoint position that doesn' t crash the arrow into the rest. You will note that this method does not require you to move the nockpoint up or down the string and it is still posible to add or subtract some poundage to the bow. Cranking down on the upper limb bolt has the same effect on the arrow as raiseing the nockpoint. Cranking down on the lower limb bolt has the same effect as moving the nockpoint down. Isn' t this an elegant solution? Good luck hunting!

RE: Problems Paper Tuning
 

Whats the problem? I' m sure theres some guys on this site that would die for groups like that. Lets set up an apointment for say 1000 shots. Go home, take 50 shots a day, and call us after a thousand. [:-]