Can't get a tune, please help
 

Hey guys, I have no problem paper tuning my 2 bows. I'm trying to tune my brothers 09 parker vanguard and cannot shake a high (2-3") tear and slight right. 70lbs, 29" draw, d-loop, cabelas carbon 400 arrows through a whisker biscuit.

I have tried different arrows, put a different rest, thought maybe it was fletching but shot a bare arrow and same thing. I checked tiller, made sure that the arrow(nock) is 90 to the rest and nothing.

I'm not sure what to try, paper is saying to lower nock but higher rest and they has not changed the results no matter how much I move it.

thanks for any suggestions, I wanna try to fix it before I have to bring it in.

to many pounds?...arrows are to light? maybe the arrows are crooked? i heard someone say they left them layin for a spell and they were slightly warped(different thread)

What kind of rest are you shooting? It sounds as though it is hitting the rest. If you are using a drop away try turning your nocks to a different position. I never paper tune, I have found that no 2 people grab a bow the same or with the same amount of pressure so....I don't. Walk back tune, bh tune shoot for longer distance to get my rest exact and I am done.

Check the tiller also. One limb might me weaker than the other. Just because the tiller is same doesn't mean it ok. Tiller is the distance between the back of the limb, just outside of the limb pocket, and the string. If the bow has a different sized cam and idler wheel combination, you will need to tie a thread from one axle to the other and use this as your reference when measuring tiller. In most cases, equal tiller will produce the best arrow flight and accuracy, but you can sometimes change the way the arrow comes out of the bow by adjusting the amount each limb bends when you draw the string. You do this by adding or removing turns from just one of the limb bolts, effectively making one limb softer than the other. Tiller tuning is dynamic and relies almost entirely on trial and error.

do what???

I have already adjusted tiller, tried different rests, and other arrows.

Just found this site, maybe it's the cam rotation?
http://www.mikes-archery.com/id26.html step 3, 2nd half.

Not really sure how to put twists in the cable or where exactly to, is this something I can do at home w/out a press?

As wrong as it sounds, I installed my peep by drawing back the bow on the ground while sitting and had someone then seperate the strings.

Also I always paper tune to start with and I adjust to this.

Tail high
1. Check cam timing
2. Move nock point down
3. Check fletching clearance, rotate nock

Tail low
1. Check cam timing
2. Move nock point up

Tail left
1. Arrow spine may be too weak. Try using stiffer shaft, lighter point or reduce draw weight

Tail right
1. Arrow spine may be too stiff. Try using a weaker shaft, a heavier point, or increase your draw weight.

This is to get me close before the real tuning starts.

Have you tried a new nock point? If I were having this much trouble I would strip the string and reset my nock point and put on a new D-Loop. Then put the rest on, level things, set centershot, and see how it shoots then.

I was having a similar problem using a whisker biscuit and blazers. I was hitting cable. So instead of messing around with my whole setup (which it seems like you already have) I twisted the nocks on my arrow about an 1/8 of a turn, which gave me clearance from the cable and didn't otherwise negatively impact the flight.

I wish I had the OT2 software, but I'm too ceap! Are all the arrows your shooting a 400 spine? I don't know much about that bow as far as how aggressive the cam is, but if you've already changed the rest from a WB to something else I would say your shooting an arrow that's too weak in the spine. JMO

This is what I was thinking of suggesting too. Mentioning that different arrows were tried doesn't mean different spined arrows. I have little doubt the 400 spine is too light for the setup. There's an easy way to see though. Reduce the draw weight to at least 65#. About 62# would be even better. Then see if the thing will tune. But remember, you have to attempt the same presision at a reduced weight as you are at 70#. And don't rule out tight nocks on the string. It could be several things causing the problem.

First, you're shooting too light of a spine for that set-up, unless you're shooting a 25" arrow, that .400 spine too weak. For that set-up, a 340 left at about 29-29.5" w/ a 125gr tip, and that would get the spine closer to where you need to be. From there, best thing you could do is QUIT trying to paper tune, because in many ways, it's a bit of a waste of time, and paper tuning is only as good as your release and follow through, and your BROTHER needs to be shooting that bow to get it tuned best for him, not you. If you want to use those .400 spine arrows, as BG says, you need to be down around 60-63#'s to get the spine right.

After that, zero a pin at 20yds, get consistent groups, at 20yds, do a walk-back tune, making sure the rest is centered, then try to BH tune. If you're shooting through a WB, I wouldn't shoot anything but Blazers or another very stiff vane through it as you want something that will tolerate the abuse of shooting through a WB. For me, I've found that I can generally eyeball a set-up, and make no more than 3-4 fine adjustments and have a bow BH tuned, and a STIFF arrow is always easier to try to tune to a set-up than a weak spine.

Hey, I just finished paper tuning my redhead kronik. My tears were bout three inches high left. Just moved the arrow rest over and corrected the left tear and then to fix the high tear just move your nock point down 1/16th of an inch at a time and see if it helps or your arrow rest up. Sometimes you can never get it to have a perfect pass through like in my case but got it down to a half inch high tear...good enough for me. Some people say they prefer a non-perfect pass through because the arrow is less likely to be influenced by weather conditions. But I am still shooting 3 inch groups at 30 yards. May not be perfect but I have only been shooting a bow for two weeks now. Good luck with tuning and for thoese who find me wrong feel free to correct me as I am new to bow hunting.

IMO if a bow is tuned, IE shootign straight (paper tuning, nock point and rest) anyone can shoot that bow as long as your draw length is the same with only changing the peep and sight, the other stuff will stay the same. It will not matter who is shooting it, a tuned bow is a tuned bow.

Been shooting easton epic arrows with their stock fletching through the WB for years with no rips, tears or wrinkles.

Again, I usually have no problem tunign a bow, like you I can eye balling it up and it's already shooting bullet holes.

I'll try something stuffer than the cabelas 400 arrows he is using but my bow shooting the same weight shoots them great.

Not necessarily.....

If he has slight torquing issues, then you literally need to tune it to his issues, and his hands. You can get it close by YOU shooting it, but screw on some BH's and have him shoot them at 40yds, and see how close they are to FP's....... I'd suspect they ain't gonna be close, unless the bow has been tuned with HIM shooting it. I've set up bow for a few different people, even a left handed bow, and gotten them CLOSE, but there still was enough variation in form from my hands to theirs that a small amount of tweaking needed done, surprisingly the LEFTY bow was as close as anything I'd set up.....:confused: Getting away from the 400 spine arrows definitely will help, but again, for me and for a LOT of people, paper tuning really has become a method of tuning that is getting bypassed because it's usefulness really isn't there anymore.

Probably the BEST set-up for that bow is gonna be w/ a .340 spine at 29.5" and a 125gr tip to get the spine "perfect," then at that point, tuning would be much easier. It's hitting a "tweener" spot where its just too stout to get a .400 spine to work at that DL and weight, and you need extra length and tip wt. to weaken the spine of a .340 to make tuning a bit more simplified. The tears you're getting are EXTREME, and sound like something MORE than just spine, which is another reason, I'll most of the time lean toward a STIFFER spine, and tweak the set-up, as I can almost ALWAYS get a bow to shoot ok w/ a stiff spine, but I've had set-ups that w/ a weak spine, I could drive myself crazy trying to accomplish what I needed to. Good Luck with it.