Broadhead Question
 

When I purchased my first arrows and broadheads the brand of broadheads I bought were Grim Reaper. They are suppose to open on contact with the Deer but when I found my arrow after I hit my Buck they seemed to not have spread out. Is this possible? And have any of you used this brand and had this happen? Or do they close back up once they pass through the hide?

Mechanicals can be unreliable and don't work any better, find a cut on contact head that works for you.

I have yet to use mine on a deer, but according to the target, every shot has the blades closing back up. The blades will close back up in the sudden stop. you can see where the blades were cutting on the way in and cutting on the way out. Bad thing is, I will need a new block pretty soon. I have fired way too many different broadheads through it getting my bow in tune.

I wouldn't gauge what the broadhead did by it's appearance "after" entering the deer, but by looking at the cutting done while it made contact with the deer. Hopefully you'll see a nice large entrance wound.

And YES, it is very possible for a broadhead to not open up. In fact, it's one of the most complained about feature lack of expansion... the other being lack of penetration.

All mechanicals have a weakness in my opinion. It's their possible lack of ability to open up simultaneously and are susceptible to lack of penetration on quartering shots. If blades open up individually, the blade that makes contact first will open up first. This would be the closest inside blade that makes contact first on the quartering shot. I know a guy, who matter of fact, used a very similar broadhead style, the Wasp Jackhammers, and had the worst year in his life wounding deer with them. He never knew why, but I learned years later it was due to his quartering shots that had lack of penetration. This was a common complaint from many mechanical broadhead users. To this day my favorite broadhead is a mechanical. They don't make it anymore, but I have a few left for myself. :wink:

iSnipe

I see no need for mechanical broadheads. Any well placed shot with a good fixed blade will do the job just fine. Mechanicals are just another thing that can and eventually will fail.

The only mechanical I'll use is a 2 blade rage.

I've been using Spitfires for almost 10 years now and they haven't failed me. Every deer I have shot has been a complete pass through with the exception of one, and that was my fault. There is no way they can't open.

Put a RAGE in the Cage. Dead dear no questions asked.

yup! never saw a post anywhere about a rage broadhead not penetrating or losing a deer.:)

untill last year i would of never used an expandable broadhead. i had sucess with fixed blades and the way i look at there was no reason to change. untill i found by self board one day and bought some 3 blade rage heads. i did some of my own tests. the result were great. huge entry holes and huge exit holes. i shot my very nice 10 point days after buying them and will be using rage for years now. the above mentioned 10 pointer was very slighthy quartering away, a shot that is not perfect but with the hoyt and rage combo the arrow blew right through the buck with a double lung shot. the blood trail was remarkable. he ran about 50 yards and fell over. when i field dressed the deer, it was remarkable what his lungs looked like, they were shreeded.
most of the heads on the market today will do the job, fixed heads or expandables if properly tuned. for me the most important thing is to have confidence in what you are shooting. if you have worries about your heads try some other heads untill you find something that you have no doubt in. fixed blades or expandables.
doing your own tests on heads can be a bit pricy but it is a fun and you can learn alot shooting into different materials.
good luck hunting

I've heard that rage are terrible unless perfecty placed , and I've heard they dont open right...

I bought some grim reapers to play around with just a few weeks ago. I have been using fixed blade heads with good results, just thought I might try something different.

With the grim reapers, the blades will open and very often will close after going through something and doesnt make a bit of difference. They are also better on angling shots than many other mechanicals within reason. the tip is further forward as compared to th blades when folded. That prevents the blades form "leveraging" the arrow to the side on impact due to the tip actually penetrating a little before the blades are activated. Have heard good reviews and saw some interesting film clips of shooting plywood set on an angle, steel drums etc. on the grim reaper website.

As for the angled shots, Ive seen even fixed blades glance right down along the outside of the rib cage on hard angling shots. Even did it a couple years ago myself, after shooting a buck, hitting it a bit back, took another shot at it as it slowed to a walk, a hard angling shot away. Arrow skipped down the length of the ribcage went just under the shoulderblade and exited in front on the same side. Found the deer which died from the first shot, but the second sure wouldnt have done the job. Shouldnt take extreme angle shots with any broadhead unless attempting to stop one already hit.

rage lack penetration if the shot isnt perfect

I am glad that someone asked the question about the reapers as I have been thinking about shooting them myself. For several years now I have been shooting the Crimson talons. Remarkable broadhead within ranges of 35 yards or so but a bit shaky outside. Looking for something a little more accurate at greater distances for a 2010 Elk hunt.

X100 on the rage heads not penetrating, i have not used the 3 blade, i have used the 2 blade and can tell you that those are junk. My buddy wanted to buy the rages i had left over but i did the ethical thing and threw them in the trash.

I shot my Buck with the Reaper Broadhead it did the job got my deer which bled out in less than 70 yards no lungs hit but I think the liver or a vital artery was hit because the blood trail was clear all the way to were he laid down. When I found my arrow the blades seemed to not have opened but the exit wound looked like they did open,hard to read for a rookie hunter. Thanks for all your input on my question. Good Hunting!

I've been reading these type of posts for some time. I also have seen mechanicals getting a pretty good beating about reliability and penetration. Looking at some of the designs for the consumer, It's easy to understand why. But one mechanical that I'll always have in my quiver, Rocket Sidewinder. I started using this head the second year it was offered to the consumer. After the first two seasons I used this broadhead I was blown away by the blood trails. I got my best buddy to switch to them. His son and another buddy of ours. We have taken a combined total of 59 deer with these broadheads. Not one failure to open. Big entry and exit holes no matter what angle.
The very first deer I ever shot with this head was 23 to 25 yds. angling towards me. My bow set up then was 65lbs. shooting a 540 grain arrow. I shot the buck,it went less than 40 yds. The arrow entered just behind his shoulder and came out near his junk and broke the back leg. Now with more efficient bows and carbon arrows,we have switched to the Rocket Hammer Head with a two inch cut. The buck I shot this year was spraying blood 6 feet wide. The only thing we found bad about these heads over the years. Is the tiny little screw that holds the blades. We have had very few break off,but! After a pass threw and the head drives into the ground. The threads for those tiny screws get screwed up and you can't replace the blade. In other words,the head becomes a one shot deal most of the time. But the performance and easy blood trails I get from these heads. I'll live with that!

Yeah bp, I could see where durability might be an issue with many mechanicals, If I bust one on its way through a bucks chest and into the ground, I dont mind much.

One other thing i dont care for is having to screw with the rubber bands to hold the blades shut as is the case with some of them, and with my poundage, was told Id need two!. Dont have them on the reapers.

Thought Id try the mechanicals. Little bigger cut than the thunderheads Ive been using. Shooting 80+ lbs on my bowtech & arrows on the lighter side, its near impossible to get anything over an inch and an eighth to fly in the fixed blade heads.

Havent had problems as of late with the fixed blade narrow heads, but just thinking ahead towards the potential of having unavoidable less than perfect hits.

Quote:

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"Rocket Hammer Head with a two inch cut. The buck I shot this year was spraying blood 6 feet wide. "

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lol. I can imagine. I stayed a bit on the conservative side with the reapers in the 1 3/8" cuts.

I have had two great results with Rage 2 Blades and quartering away shots this year. They were not slightly quartering away either.

The first photo below shows the 4" entrance wound on a 222 lb 8 point I shot this year at 20 yards. The Rage tipped arrow hit at the back of the ribcage slicing through ribs going in and then the arrow exited just at the front of the front shoulder on the opposite side of the deer with a complete passthru. No penetration problems at all.

The second picture shows another 8 point buck I shot this year, he was 25 yards away quartering away as well. The entrance wound measured 2.5". The arrow exited just behind the front shoulder on the opposite side and was stuck in the ground. No penetration problems at all on that one either.

lol 80lbs! You friggen gorilla! :s4: I shot years back with a guy in our archery club. He was shooting a Jennings Elephant Bow at 90lbs. Our club shot indoors. The owner finally told him,sorry but no more. Your turning my block foundation into powder.:D Corn; I know you said you don't like the gum bands. But maybe you should look at Rockets Mini Blaster. That's only if you wish for a bigger cut. That head has a 13/4 inch cut and is designed for bows like yours. Honest to god though. For deer,I'll never use anything else.

I have heard these "it didn't open" claims for years in regards to expandable broadheads and I'm sorry but I sincerely believe that almost all of them are BS. I've killed deer with at least 5 different types of expandables. And I've shot at least 5 other types of mech heads besides the ones I've used on deer into various target materials. I have never seen one not open. Unless you glue one shut; let one rust shut; or tie one shut; it almost defies the laws of physics for a fold from the front mech head to not open when shot into a deer.

As for poor penetration, I attribute that in most cases to one of the following causes. And sadly in some cases a really disasterous combination of the two.

1. People who screw on a mech head because they cannot get a field tip and a fixed head to group together. This of course does not fix the fact that their bow is still untuned. And they are therefore probably still getting poor, wobbly, energy robbing, arrow flight despite the fact that their field tips and mech heads are now hitting the same spot. It's like slapping a bandage over a sucking chest wound, the problem is still there you've just covered it up.

2. People using mech heads with insanely large cutting diameters for the power level their bow is generating. Most people have never even shot their bow through a chronograph and therefore can only guess at the speed they are getting from their bow. Guesses that in my experience are almost always "highly optimistic" to say the least. These guesses are usually based on the bows IBO rating which is worthless unless you have a 30 inch draw length; a 70 lb bow and are shooting a minimum weight arrow with absolutely nothing attached to your string. The amount of energy needed to open a mech head isn't the problem IMHO. The problem is that it's hard to push a 1 3/4 or 2 inch wide broadhead through a deer without a lot of kinetic energy and good straight arrow flight.

End result? These folks head for the woods with their 27 inch draw, 60 lb, untuned bows loaded up with a 2 inch wide mech head; whack a deer with their fishtailing under powered arrow; get terrible penetration; and then run back to the internet to loudly proclaim that all mech heads suck.

Classic case of mis-identifying the actual problem.

I think that statement right there is BS.

Matter o' fact, it's hard to read further into anything else you have to say after reading that.

How about you witnessed with your own eyes what has happened to you. Then it happens again, but this time has happened to a few of your friends and you also learn others have experienced the exact same thing.

Then I come along and say what you and your friends experienced is BS. ??? That would be ludicrous... NO, ridiculous...

...Yet that's what you just did.

iSnipe

I was using SWACKERS BH, then a friend gave me some SLICK TRICKS MAGS to try. I told him I would, but not likely I was going to change. I carry both Tricks for deer and Swackers for the super chickens. You need to try fixed and mechinal bh and which one works the best. Just a rambling thoughts of one person.

Those are all very good points todd1700 and probably an accurate assessment of why expandable heads dont penetrate for most, however the fact remains that if people would properly tune their bows they really wouldnt need mechanical heads in the 1st place. Penetration aside, I think the problem remains of mechanical heads opening prematurely, or worse, not all. whenever you have moving parts, those parts can move or fail to move when needed. those little tiny screw that hold the blades on dont inspire much confidence in me either. if someone has confidences in expandables, i say use em and love em, but I personally dont see any advantage over fixed heads, and i dont think you need poke giant holes in deer to spill alot of blood on the ground.

I recently changed to Grim Reaper Broadheads this fall and I have nothing to say about them except for the fact that they leave nasty blood trails and I watched all of the 7 deer that I harvested fall from my tree with the exception of one, which only went 50 yards. I swear by these broadheads, I have never had a problem with them. They are in the same class as rage in my opinion.

Agree with much of whats being said about the penetration issues. Just thought Id add, the reason i picked some up was not because my bow was "out of tune" or my current heads wouldnt fly, its just that I wanted to try something different, and wanted a slightly wider cut, no particular reason, just anticipating the always possible less than perfect hits. Wanted a bit wider since Id already been using some of the smaller on the market. They flew like darts. Didnt even bother trying very wide cut fixed blades because know form many years experience and quite a few "fast" bows, they dont fly well. And a "tuned bow" in most instances isnt gonna permit most to be shooting in the 300 fps or more range and using 1.5+ inch cut fixed blade heads. At least thats what Ive found from my own experimenting through the years and that of others.

The mechanicals work, or open on contact on deer and usually do a good job. Do not go on certain ranches, or certain states, they will not allow them. NONE! Many years ago when mechanicals had gruesome names the hunting pros wanted to try and find if they are worth the extra $$$ I don't remember the numbers but I think it was like 15 pigs shot, only 6 found. After that, the state of Alaska said do not use in this state. Today I still don't know why someone would pay more for bh's when todays fixed bh's are some of the best. Its been said before, if you put the bh through the boiler room, pipes will leak.

Just amazing to me that I have never had a expandable fail to open on a deer or a target. None of the 15 or more people I personally know who bowhunt have ever had one fail to open on a deer or a target. None of the hundreds of members of a local Alabama forum that I have been a member of for the past 12 years have ever reported that an expandable failed to open.

Then you come to certain websites and there are people who claim that it has happened to them over and over again. Sometimes with multiple different brands of heads. And not only that, but happened to practically every other bowhunter they personally know as well.

Hard for me to fathom that a problem so widespread that it could occur that many times in the experience of one man and his friends could on the other hand never occur even once in group of hundreds of other bowhunters.

And that is why I take any claim that a fold from the front head did not open with a huge grain of salt before I put any stock in it.

First question is "Did you find the deer?" Cause if you or they didn't then you have no way of knowing what happened.

Second question is did you check the head to see if the blades would open easily before you shot it? Because if you can easily open them by hand it defies logic that they would not open on a deer.

Third question, was it a used head or had you modified it in any way. I have tied some shut to use them on a practice target and I'm telling you not just any string would hold them shut. It generally took multiple wrappings of something like dental floss to get them to stay shut. Further reason it's hard for me to buy the "they don't open" stuff.

Tell ya what. We can have a test/bet. Lets buy 100 expandable broadheads. I'll pick the brands. We will shoot every one into a broadhead target. For every one that opens you give me 20 dollars. For every one that fails to open I'll give you 100 dollars. Deal? Hope so cause I could use the 2 grand with christmas coming up.

When a Grim Reaper pass through they snap closed when the arrow loosed inertia! It may not have been intintionally designed to do this but it is a part of it's design......

video proof

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZOnwNS_cPw

About a 1:20 into video.

Also this:

http://huntingnet.com/forum/bowhunti...-9-19-doe.html

Distance of over 45 yards. Quatering to me. Complete passthrough. Entrance and exit holes has the "Y" from the blades deploying. When arrow was found the blades were CLOSED.

The Grim Reapers are the only broadheads that I have read enough positive and vitrually no negatives about. I tried them this season after always saying I would NEVER use a mechanical. I LOVE these heads.

I've shot the Reapers at targets, no deer yet but I hope to get the chance. I have shot deer with the Rage 2 blades and they are fantastic. I can not comprehend the broadhead failing to open. If someone says they've had this happen so be it but I've shot them tons of times and never had it happen. They do have issues opening up in the quiver and since I dont want them to open until they hit something, I use orthodonic rubber bands to keep them closed. I've never had a problem with them failing to open or opening prematurely. Great head but pricey. I believe you should take this post and others lightly. Do your own research and then you'll see with your own eyes what's better for you and your set up. My 2 cents.

I've killed 9 deer with Grim Reapers, every time the blades were closed when I found the arrow. They produce massive blood trails and worked very well IMO, but I'm tired of spending $11 on 1 BH. I don't shoot them any longer.

I have had nothing but success with the 100gr Grim Reaper Razortips. I use them for deer, bear, turkey, and hog. The vast majority of them that I recover have the blades closed, but they have all went thru the animal open as evidenced by the wounds.
I would not hesitate to recommend them to anyone.

Reapers are my current broadhead of choice as well. Excellent broadhead.

I shot grim reapers for a couple of years and never had a problem with them. Shot mostly hogs which are a thicker skinned than deer.Ihad the same thought about not openning so called them they told me to shoot at paper and look at the holes if opening or not Never had one not open. The only reason I changed to the fixed Hellrazor is because the place I hunt in Indiana doesn't want you shooting mech.heads his place so I shoot fixed. Loved the Grim Reapers though

i love the reaper

Rage, Spitfires, Grim Reapers are some of the best expandables currently on the market.

IMHO an expandable does not have the toughness or the dependability of a top notch fixed blade broadhead. THe advantage in better flight a mechanical broadhead used to have is pretty much nonexistent with the quality construction of modern day fixed blade heads. Many claim that mechanicals do more damage, but have you ever seen the damage done by a 1 1/4" 4 blade head?

Most of the time the mechanicals work flawless, but the fact remains that human error out of the equation fixed blades are tougher and more dependable.

That's what I want.:s4:

Dan

I think that a lot of B.S.. I used Grim Reapers for years, and I never saw one ever snap back, regards if it was a deer, a hog or a rabbit!