Lesson Learned.....
08-24-2009, 07:46 AM
#1
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 3,058
Lesson Learned.....
It's only taken me about 20 years to do so, but here's the abbreviated version (and I will refrain from naming names)
I have Bow X- it's a phenomenally smooth drawing and incredibly accurate bow. I really have to screw up something pretty bad to get this bow to throw an arrow way off the mark. One of those bows you can pick up and everything feels right and you don't have to "work" to shoot well. In essence- the bow we ALL want to have in our arsenal.
The problem starts when I get a little "bored" with bow X. Despite it's incredible shootablity-it's not all that exciting- its pretty quick, but not blazing fast like some bows. Its quiet, but not incredibly so. It's pretty tame to shoot, but not the tamest. Not to mention, I think it's just about the ugliest bow I've owned in many years. Bad lines, bad camo, just fuggly.
So, I decide to try out Bow Y- I've had many bows from them before and liked several of them quite a bit. Bow Y is often described by marketing as well as owners as being super quick, super shootable, and tame. I've shot it at the shop, and it is very pleasant shooting-very quiet, low recoil, fast. So I order it in my fave color combo, order custom harness, etc. The bow is going to look BadA! and of course it's going to shoot well. I'm totally psyched and excited to get the bow.
Bow Y arrives- it is indeed beautiful, especially once I get the custom color harness on it. It def looks BadA.
First problem- it won't fit in my existing bow-case (this was a harbinger of things to come- I should have known right off the bat)
I knew the draw lengths ran long on this model, so I compensated by going shorter than normal. It's nearly an inch long at AMO spec but still fits pretty well-I just shortened my loop a bit more than I would normally. But, yeesh- an inch? this is not 1995 folks.
Second problem- after shooting it a couple days, the draw cycle was really starting to wear on me. Feel-wise, Bow Y seems 7 or 8 pounds heavier than bow X, and really loads up on the back end regardless. It wasn't really noticable shooing the test bow for 20 arrows, but now putting arrows though it every other day? ugh...My rotator and lats are screaming.
Third "problem"- Extrapolating #s to compare ACTUAL MEASURED draw lengths, poundage and arrow weight and then blasting through the chronograph. Bow Y totally on spec, is actually a couple FPS slower than my beloved Bow X (which is a touch under spec as far as cam position goes) And bow Y is a hell of alot harder to draw and letdown to be a couple FPS slower.
Fourth Problem- Bow Y torques hard on drawback- the design is juts an absolute torque monster. And the letdown is pretty brutal.
The Last straw- Bow Y is about as far from "forgiving" a bow as I've shot this year. Oh sure- if I do everything exactly perfect form it wil stack arrow on top of arrow. I even broke a couple of nocks. But one little mistake and it will throw an arrow out left or right way too many inches for my taste. The bow is entirely too demanding. And that's indoors- with no wind-with a comfortable temperature-on level ground. Now what am I supposed to do sitting 15 feet up in a tree with bulky clothes on, freezing my butt off, with the adrenalin rush of a deer walking by my stand???
After giving the bow a fair shake, I'm ready to throw the dang thing in a dumpster. I rarely get that feeling with most bows. I may not care for something in a general or specifi sense, but I have not had too many bows that are so maddening to shoot (though I've had TWO like that this year!).
Now I'll be the first to admit- I'm no world Class Archer. And I'll also be the first to admit that bow Y probably is the best shooting most forgiving bow someone else has ever picked up- I know we are all different. But I've had it. Bow Y got stripped and put back in it's box- and will be for sale at some point. It's back to that old "boring ugly" bow X for me.
Now the ironic thing is that after stripping bow Y and putting it back in the box, I happened to see the catalog for the company that makes Bow X and laid it on my nightstand next to the bed. Later that evening after mentally beating myself up most of the day for being so stupid, I laid down, put the heating pad on my rotator, open up to the catalog page for my beloved bow X and right there in big print it says....
wait for it.....
" NEVER, EVER MESS WITH A GOOD THING"
I have Bow X- it's a phenomenally smooth drawing and incredibly accurate bow. I really have to screw up something pretty bad to get this bow to throw an arrow way off the mark. One of those bows you can pick up and everything feels right and you don't have to "work" to shoot well. In essence- the bow we ALL want to have in our arsenal.
The problem starts when I get a little "bored" with bow X. Despite it's incredible shootablity-it's not all that exciting- its pretty quick, but not blazing fast like some bows. Its quiet, but not incredibly so. It's pretty tame to shoot, but not the tamest. Not to mention, I think it's just about the ugliest bow I've owned in many years. Bad lines, bad camo, just fuggly.
So, I decide to try out Bow Y- I've had many bows from them before and liked several of them quite a bit. Bow Y is often described by marketing as well as owners as being super quick, super shootable, and tame. I've shot it at the shop, and it is very pleasant shooting-very quiet, low recoil, fast. So I order it in my fave color combo, order custom harness, etc. The bow is going to look BadA! and of course it's going to shoot well. I'm totally psyched and excited to get the bow.
Bow Y arrives- it is indeed beautiful, especially once I get the custom color harness on it. It def looks BadA.
First problem- it won't fit in my existing bow-case (this was a harbinger of things to come- I should have known right off the bat)
I knew the draw lengths ran long on this model, so I compensated by going shorter than normal. It's nearly an inch long at AMO spec but still fits pretty well-I just shortened my loop a bit more than I would normally. But, yeesh- an inch? this is not 1995 folks.
Second problem- after shooting it a couple days, the draw cycle was really starting to wear on me. Feel-wise, Bow Y seems 7 or 8 pounds heavier than bow X, and really loads up on the back end regardless. It wasn't really noticable shooing the test bow for 20 arrows, but now putting arrows though it every other day? ugh...My rotator and lats are screaming.
Third "problem"- Extrapolating #s to compare ACTUAL MEASURED draw lengths, poundage and arrow weight and then blasting through the chronograph. Bow Y totally on spec, is actually a couple FPS slower than my beloved Bow X (which is a touch under spec as far as cam position goes) And bow Y is a hell of alot harder to draw and letdown to be a couple FPS slower.
Fourth Problem- Bow Y torques hard on drawback- the design is juts an absolute torque monster. And the letdown is pretty brutal.
The Last straw- Bow Y is about as far from "forgiving" a bow as I've shot this year. Oh sure- if I do everything exactly perfect form it wil stack arrow on top of arrow. I even broke a couple of nocks. But one little mistake and it will throw an arrow out left or right way too many inches for my taste. The bow is entirely too demanding. And that's indoors- with no wind-with a comfortable temperature-on level ground. Now what am I supposed to do sitting 15 feet up in a tree with bulky clothes on, freezing my butt off, with the adrenalin rush of a deer walking by my stand???
After giving the bow a fair shake, I'm ready to throw the dang thing in a dumpster. I rarely get that feeling with most bows. I may not care for something in a general or specifi sense, but I have not had too many bows that are so maddening to shoot (though I've had TWO like that this year!).
Now I'll be the first to admit- I'm no world Class Archer. And I'll also be the first to admit that bow Y probably is the best shooting most forgiving bow someone else has ever picked up- I know we are all different. But I've had it. Bow Y got stripped and put back in it's box- and will be for sale at some point. It's back to that old "boring ugly" bow X for me.
Now the ironic thing is that after stripping bow Y and putting it back in the box, I happened to see the catalog for the company that makes Bow X and laid it on my nightstand next to the bed. Later that evening after mentally beating myself up most of the day for being so stupid, I laid down, put the heating pad on my rotator, open up to the catalog page for my beloved bow X and right there in big print it says....
wait for it.....
" NEVER, EVER MESS WITH A GOOD THING"
Last edited by JeffB; 08-24-2009 at 07:51 AM.
08-24-2009, 08:34 AM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 3,058
I thought that may sound confusing the way I typed it up T.
Actual draw lengths between the two bows are within an 1/8". It's just that I ordered bow Y shorter than I normally would (knowing it ran long) to ensure I got the same actual draw length as I normally shoot (and that bow X is)
Am I making sense?
EDIT- in other words- Bow X is a 28.5" cam that measures 28.75" draw length. Bow Y is a 28" cam that measures 28 & 7/8" draw length. I shortened my loop a touch on bow Y to comp for that 1/8". effective draw length/anchor point is the same.
Last edited by JeffB; 08-24-2009 at 08:37 AM.
08-24-2009, 08:41 AM
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Facing the same dilemma now. I had the most forgiving, pleasant shooting, accurate bow I ever had. A bowtech commander. I went and got a guardian. Its ok. But not near as forgiving with a 30" draw, hense not as accurate, draw cycle sucks compared to the commander, and not as quiet.
Only reason I sold the commander and got the guardian was I was thinking I better unload the commander now. It was an 07 and they had no resale and price was shooting down by the day. The guardian does. Sure the guardian is 10fps faster, but at a horrible draw cycle.
Only reason I sold the commander and got the guardian was I was thinking I better unload the commander now. It was an 07 and they had no resale and price was shooting down by the day. The guardian does. Sure the guardian is 10fps faster, but at a horrible draw cycle.
08-24-2009, 08:52 AM
#5
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brockport NY
Posts: 211
Jeff,
I had a Mountaineer years ago that turned out to be just that way with me, it felt great when I first tried it but after some serious shooting time it really sucked, I shot one deer with it but never had that confidence with it. I still have the turd hanging on my basement wall.
Your post title says it all.
I had a Mountaineer years ago that turned out to be just that way with me, it felt great when I first tried it but after some serious shooting time it really sucked, I shot one deer with it but never had that confidence with it. I still have the turd hanging on my basement wall.
Your post title says it all.
08-24-2009, 09:31 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 3,058
My advice- go find your Bow- X again! perceived value and actual value ( as you can see) are two entirely different things 
Heyya Gary!! good to see you post. Hope all is well.
As for the mountaineer- you still own it?
But the thing is- we are all different- I know that what may be the nastiest POS ever designed as far as I'm concerned, just may the bow you never have shot better with. My point wasn't really about the two particular bows so much as it was about the last sentence in my initial post 
On somewhat of a tangent- The thing I'm beginning to see clearly is that since I've switched to shooting lefty (eye dominance issue) there is indeed a "totally opposite" effect going on. It's like Superman and Bizarro Superman What used to work/be comfy/be preferable for me shooting RH, now is the most godawful, worst feeling piece of equipment ever left handed. And not just bows and cams and draw cycles and grips. Even things such as the type of release aid, how a bow balances, etc-it's completely different. Likely because my form is so much better shooting lefty- I had lots of bad habits that were impossible to break shooting righty because I never had anyone to teach me good form in my formative years. Now shooting lefty, I am able to start all over again knowing what proper form is and using it.
Jeff,
I had a Mountaineer years ago that turned out to be just that way with me, it felt great when I first tried it but after some serious shooting time it really sucked, I shot one deer with it but never had that confidence with it. I still have the turd hanging on my basement wall. Your post title says it all.
I had a Mountaineer years ago that turned out to be just that way with me, it felt great when I first tried it but after some serious shooting time it really sucked, I shot one deer with it but never had that confidence with it. I still have the turd hanging on my basement wall.
Your post title says it all.As for the mountaineer- you still own it?
On somewhat of a tangent- The thing I'm beginning to see clearly is that since I've switched to shooting lefty (eye dominance issue) there is indeed a "totally opposite" effect going on. It's like Superman and Bizarro Superman
What used to work/be comfy/be preferable for me shooting RH, now is the most godawful, worst feeling piece of equipment ever left handed. And not just bows and cams and draw cycles and grips. Even things such as the type of release aid, how a bow balances, etc-it's completely different. Likely because my form is so much better shooting lefty- I had lots of bad habits that were impossible to break shooting righty because I never had anyone to teach me good form in my formative years. Now shooting lefty, I am able to start all over again knowing what proper form is and using it.
Last edited by JeffB; 08-24-2009 at 09:35 AM.
08-24-2009, 09:38 AM
#8
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brockport NY
Posts: 211
Yup still own it, I actually bought some modules from somebody here on the forum and tried shooting it a few years ago but it's a beast, I'm actually still shooting my 04 Pat Dually but I'm always looking.
Last edited by gromage1; 08-24-2009 at 12:17 PM.
08-24-2009, 05:54 PM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 3,058
Which model Mountaineer is it? Used to sell the crap out those things back in the mid 90s.
08-24-2009, 06:09 PM
#10
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brockport NY
Posts: 211
Jeff,
I think its a Challenger, its been so long since I even looked at it I'm not sure. I sure have been happy with the Dually but its about time for something new, I really like the draw on the Carnivore 34 but I didn't get a chance to shoot it and the Bowtech guy close by switched to another brand so I have to do some traveling to shoot a new one of those. I did shoot a Firecat and that was pretty impressive. Oh so many choices,only time will tell.
I think its a Challenger, its been so long since I even looked at it I'm not sure. I sure have been happy with the Dually but its about time for something new, I really like the draw on the Carnivore 34 but I didn't get a chance to shoot it and the Bowtech guy close by switched to another brand so I have to do some traveling to shoot a new one of those. I did shoot a Firecat and that was pretty impressive. Oh so many choices,only time will tell.