Not trying to be argumentative dryridge. Just doin the ol' debate and all haha! None of it really matters anyway b/c with either setup, just like you said, a sharp head will have no problem getting its way in the right spot...

I do agree with you about the efficiency of the bows though. Your input seems to be correct to me, and i would say your hypothesis is right about the gains in speed from each bow.

Derek

Hey Thanks DrockW...I appreciate the nod of confindence. BTW is
"The Bow Shop" yours? I wish you well my friend. Most of these guys don't have a clue how expensive eating last years bows for breakfast can get.

I sold PSE/Alpine/Bear,Jennings/Xi/Mountaineer/Oregon/Darton/and Hoyt. I shot PSE, Oregon and Hoyt. PSE till the SuperSlam lineup from Hoyt came out...then I switched to them. My last Hoyt sponsored bow was the Havoctec. I later got a Razortec and my son still shoots it.

I am a "Horton" man now....and while I don't really like the crossbow thing, it keeps me hunting. I just picked up an older Steelforce. Barebones Peep/Pin lightweight recurve, steel prod crossbow. Has the trajectory of a good compound setup and the peep/pin is a familiar sight picture. So I am excited for the first time since being forced to lay down my "bows".

Your Outdoors,

Dryridge

:rolleye0011: :rolleye0011: :rolleye0011: :rolleye0011: :rolleye0011:

No kidding?

But the point to the thread was if his speed at his specifications are correct and they are.

He also wanted to know how to get speed with out loosing KE. That is what the debate is about in this thread and why we are debating it.

Bows loose efficiency as arrow weight decreases. It is just a fact. There are exceptions but they are very few and far between. The KE will also eventually decrease if arrow weight increases enough.

Last year I did an experiment with an arrow that weighed over 2600 grains. The KE levels of that arrow were brought down slightly from "normal" heavy arrows to what lighter weight arrows produced. I don't remember what speed I was able to get but it wasn't much. I shot that arrow out of a Bowtech General and could barely get that arrow to the target from 60 yards. But the momentum that arrow produced was tremendous. The target would nearly roll over when that arrow hit it.


I took my bow to work today and shot a 350 grain arrow through the chrono and got 324 fps for 81 foot pounds of KE. A drop of 2 foot pounds.

I doubt we will be able to get him to shoot his bow with a 325 grain arrow since he hasn't bothered to comment once in this thread.

Calm down with your :rolleye0011::rolleye0011::rolleye0011: there buddy!!! This is the same debate that goes on year after year, and on EVERY archery site there is! I stated my peace! I put my input in! You win!!! Ill still kill my deer (and yes im saying this even though the thread didnt ask that...)

No need for:sign0004:
:arms:
We already came to the conclusion that if he dropped a bit of weight, not all the way down to ibo, but somewhere in the middle that he would be better off... We have just been arguing in circles since then...:poke:

Derek

hey bigbulls,
im interested in any input you may have. Im looking for an arrow that is will be around 375 grs. and i will be putting my draw weight up to 70#.

Sorry i havent been able to comment back. I was on a fishing trip...

I am thinking about the PSE carbon force STL hunters.
Should i go with the 300 series or the 400
300 are 8.8 gr/in. and 400 are 9.2 gr/in.

Berettaguy, which shaft depends on how short you are chopping them. Spine will be the determining factor. If you are cutting them short, the 300's should be spined enough. If not then 400's may have to be used. You can consult a chart or your local pro. Problem is if you want them that short, you can't really try before buying. If they were somewhere north of 28" then the shop owner would prob. have a few on hand to try.

I would suggest buying 3 of the 300's and see how they act. Or visa/versa with the 400's.

I think that no matter how much we tout numbers here...the answer that Dock and I discussed and BigBull was gracious enough to prove is that you won't make an appreciable difference in KE no matter what you do with your arrow. So....as stated before, why not go with the best tuning or flatest shooting arrow and get a BH you have confidence will get the job done and go hunting.

Good Luck and Let us know what you choose,

Dryridge

BigBull,

Thanks for the test. You got just what we said you would.....I just wish you would have continued my quote about doing it one more sentence. Because it read as follows:

"But I'd say you are right all around on what your bow will do based on it's being at near peak efficiency, it will gain less, and yes even lose."

We may disagree on what Berettaguys bow will do, and that's fine. He really doesn't need to do the test as the difference will be so small whoever's guess is correct, he will not notice the difference with a good BH nor will the critters.

Thanks again for your time in doing the test.

I think this has about run it's course, and I see this debate will continue between archers for some time. I know I have partaken in it for the last time. My "pat" answer from now on will be...."It won't really matter enough to worry about it"

Take Care,

Dryridge

Cool, I hope you brought back a cooler full. So many times people start threads and disappear and never comment back on the discussion that they started.

Berettaguy, I tend to stay away from the PSE line of arrows. Not that they aren't good arrows. It has to do with refletching them. With the "loose" (for lack of a better word) weaving process they use when it comes time to refletch your arrows a lot of times the carbon will break off from the outer layer of woven carbon when you scrape off the glue.

If you really want to use PSE arrows I strongly suggest buying shafts instead of prefletched arrows and using a wrap so you don't glue directly to the shaft.

Some arrows that will work great for your target weight woudl be Gold Tip 55/75 with a 100 grain tip, Carbon Express Maxima 250 or Carbon Express terminator lite 45/60 with 100 grain tips, Beman ICS 400 with a 100 grain tip, Easton Flatline 340 with a 125 grain tip.

I am assuming a 25" finished arrow length here based on your 26" draw length.




Sorry about that. I was getting to the point of the results.

Yeah, but what else are we going to talk about during the summer months.:s4:

It's not about winning anything. It is about discussing what the thread is about like adults. The problem is that no one can ever have a debate or discussion with adults on this board any more with out someones inner child coming out as your did. You didn't state your peace you reverted to mocking someone else when they didn't agree with your point of view. Just like you did in this quote as well. But if that is the way you work then so be it.

thanks definatly will look into all options