RE: Arrow Flight different with broadheads vs. field points
 

Well I surely didn' t seem to sound like that!

What I was saying(attempting to be more clear) is that by comparing the two will give you information that can help you attain better broadhead accuracy and better groups. Understanding the variables that make the groups different can be a great benifit to you. It actually takes longer to figure out the little things that effect your broadhead groups and accuracy without something to compare them to.

RE: Arrow Flight different with broadheads vs. field points
 

Are you saying that it is not possible, or extremely difficult, to accurately determine if a broadhead shaft is or is not flying well without comparing it with the flight of a different mounted arrow?

What are the " variables" between the different mounted shafts that you suggest I need to know and understand to obtain the best performance of my broadhead shafts? The variables between the two that I do know, is that one shaft does not have wings in front, and the other does. Therefore, it is highly probable that they will react differently in flight. Being I hunt with the shaft that has wings in front, I do not concern myself with how the wingless shaft will fly once I have pre-tuned.

Why be concerned about how two different mounted shafts group with each other, when I will only being using one specific type to hunt with?

RE: Arrow Flight different with broadheads vs. field points
 

c903,you are totally missing the point.

There is a forgiveness factor that goes along with this whole thing.If a BOW AND ARROW AND SHOOTER is tuned properly then it doesn' t matter if the arrow is carrying a broadhead or a field point.It will be more forgiving to a less than perfect shot.The arrows will hit VERY close to the same point.As I stated earlier,my broadheads hit the same and I didn' t tune the broadheads in at all.NEVER made an adjustment.This was a setup that I used for competition and was setup for the most accurate flight and most forgiving that I could possibly have(I did change from glue in points to screw in and from 1.75 vanes to 3" ).The vanes had a very slight offset.IF it is right on then they will be close.FOR THE MOST PART.There are some bows and broadheads that just don' t want to come in.Most of those cases can be fixed also but there is a line that we sometimes cross as to what is really necessary.

RE: Arrow Flight different with broadheads vs. field points
 

Do a search and type in " tuning process" , choose " topics and body" , and choose " within 1 year" . Then scroll down and click on the thread called " tuning process" posted in the Technical forum with Jerry/PA the author, posted 12/29/2002. Some very informative reading about field point/broadhead tuning, as well as other juicy tidbits that may help you. This will also save some of us alot of typing.;) Good shooting! Pinwheel 12

RE: Arrow Flight different with broadheads vs. field points
 

TFOX:

I do believe I heard some chest sucking gasps following this claim:

First, " it does not matter" is a claim that must be carefully used when referring to archery.

Second, When shooting a bow, there is no such animal as " forgiving." I will accept that there are aspects that might be less sensitive to a mal-adjustment or a slight mistake, but never " forgiving."

As for you not having to tune your broadheads. That is good. However, I did not say that a broadhead will never impact the same as a fieldpoint. Some do, right out of the box. What I did say, was that I do not consider it necessary to tune your broadheads to impact the same POI as your fieldpoint. However, it seems that is not something you need to consider being your broadheads already impact the same.

Last, do not ever get rid of your bow and gear, especially those shafts. Considering you were able to change the insert/point system, and the vanes from 1.75 to 3" vanes, and mounted a broadhead, and the broadhead mounted shafts did not require any tuning or any adjustments, and hit the same POI is fantastic. Do not breathe on that setup. ;)

RE: Arrow Flight different with broadheads vs. field points
 

Well when the arrows were changed over the foc remained exactly the same.This is critical to keeping the tune the same.The arrows were definately heavier but the sight was changed from a target sight to a hunting sight so I did sight the bow in,but that isn' t a part of tuning.


As a matter of fact the last 2 bows I did were right on from the first shot with the broadheads.The other bow was a PSE that was about 15 years old.It was shooting 2117 with 125gr heads and I will have to say that one surprised me.The one I did 3 bows ago was not right on at first and the person wasn' t worried about it so neither was I.I new it was very close.

And if you want to use your term.An arrow carrying a broadhead will be more sensitive ;) to a bad shot than one with a field point.That is what makes the tune more critical with broadheads.If a broadhead is as near to perfect as possible,then most likely the field points will be very close.

All I' m really saying is if they aren' t hitting real close,then the tune is probably a little off.Or maybe the shooters form is a little off,in that case the form really needs to be addressed.


Too late with the bow.I already sold it to my brother in law that never has hunted with a bow.He hit the 2" circle on the 2nd shot at 20 yards.Yeah,the bow was a shooter.But never fear,the new cam 1/2 Ultratec seems to be surpassing the old one.:D


I' m starting to feel warm and fuzzy all over.:)[8D]:D;)

RE: Arrow Flight different with broadheads vs. field points
 

Just a few excerpts from Bob Ragsdale, one of the Gurus of bow shooting and tuning, in response to questions about having your broadheads fly and group the same as your fieldpoints.

" Serious competitors and ethical hunters will either have 2 bows ready for the 2 jobs, or 2 sights for their bow, one zeroed in with the broadheads and another zeroed in for the fieldpoints."

[I]" ….. some people compare the impact of the identical arrows with fieldpoint and broadhead. I don' t. I' m not sure I know anyone who does. Who wants the misery? We are more concerned about being POSITIVE the broadheads hit exactly where they are supposed to, so it makes no sense to use or make the sight settings with an arrow we won' t even be using and then trust the accuracy to some close-enough comparison with 1 or 2 shots at 1 or 2 distances.

[I]" Why do you want the broadheads to hit exactly where the fieldpoints do anyway? I haven' t seen anyone even bother to check for that in years and years?[/b] You guessed it right, just simply having 1 set of marks or a separate sight for broadheads and another for fieldpoints is a terrific and MUCH MORE RELIABLE system.

" We get away with murder when using field points but when you add ' wings' to the front end of the arrow if everything isn' t ' as perfect as it can possibly be' then they can' t be expected to behave like the field points which easily side-slip where the ' wings' cannot. I haven' t even bothered to make such a comparison in maybe 25 years, don' t even know anyone who does, we all have better things to do than be frustrated trying to fix things that aren' t broken."

RE: Arrow Flight different with broadheads vs. field points
 

I respectfully disagree with Mr. Ragsdale. :D

Besides, he can afford to have TEN different set-ups. Most hunters can only afford one set-up and that has to do multiple jobs.

And please keep in mind that I' m not promoting anything absolute but rather an attempt to get things as close as possible. This depends on the capabilities and tools available to the archer. If the archer wants to accept using a different sight setting, that' s their call.

Look at it this way. We' re not all capable of the same tuning qualities. We' re also hunting under different conditions. If we lower our standards for the game we' re trying to take by acceptance of limited tuning which affects BH accuracy and KE, we' re not being fair to the game we seek.

Can FTs and BHs be made to hit in the same general location? Yes, and we do it all the time. The difference that seems to be disputed here is what tolerance should be allowed. Having two COMPLETELY different patterns is not acceptable, IMPO.

RE: Arrow Flight different with broadheads vs. field points
 

Len, with all respect, you' ve been around long enough to remember this. Some years ago it was totally acceptable for field points and broadheads to have different points of impact. Those of us that competed with the same bow for field archery AND broadhead tournaments, and used that same bow for hunting, simply bought dovetail mount sights and switched sights when we switched points. No muss, no fuss.

Didn' t a single one of us feel we were being disrespectful of either the game or the sport by doing that. Our arrows flew straight, were accurate and killed quickly and cleanly.

A bow that will consistently shoot a broadhead tipped arrow with pinpoint accuracy at 60-70 yards is tuned, no matter where a field point tipped arrow impacts in relation.

By the way, there is one thing that makes a HUGE impact on point of impact that hasn' t even been mentioned. I got a reminder of how important it is just yesterday in fact. Nock fit on the string. Too tight or too loose and your arrows will have different points of impact, even with the SAME kind of points. Even the same arrow will impact differently, shot to shot, if the nocks don' t fit right.

RE: Arrow Flight different with broadheads vs. field points
 

Go to the thread I listed above, I think it explains alot on this issue. If we' re talking " acceptable" tuning, then it is obvious that we are not accepting a " middle of the road" tune, right? OK--- When you try to tune broadheads and field points together, that is exactly what you get ----" middle of the road" . Due to differing ferrule lengths and sizes, drag of varying blades' thicknesses, shapes, and sizes vs fieldpoints, and differing FOCs thereof, Broadhead tipped arrows and field tipped arrows even of the same approx weight are NOT supposed to fly exactly the same! If they do, then you are not getting a " true tune" with either, and only gaining a mediocre " middle of the road" tune for both. If you run them both out of a machine like a hooter shooter, you will find that the field tipped arrows will not go into the same hole as the broadhead tipped ones when correctly tuned for one or the other. Won' t happen. So you either tune for a " middle of the road" tune which is " unacceptable" to those who are looking to get the best performance and forgiveness from their equipment, or we tune to the individual application and arrow and gain that perfection that only each individual tune can bring because we are tuning to that specific setup, instead of trying to generalize.

Based on that, I have to respectfully disagree with Len and agree with Bob on this particular aspect of tuning. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12