Arrow Flight different with broadheads vs. field points
05-06-2003, 03:53 PM
#11
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Baltimore Maryland USA
Posts: 1,385
RE: Arrow Flight different with broadheads vs. field points
All this talk about tuning the bow, and maybe the shooter; but, what about properly tuning the arrow. This means the best spine selection, the spinning of the arrows with a proper tool, and effective fletching. Without going into a lot of aerodynamic jargon, if EVERYTHING is right, they should impact VERY closely and hopefully into the same spot.
Remember; the bow, the arrow, and the shooter all have to be in ' synch' to get perfect results. What the individual is willing to settle for is their call. What results the individual is capable of getting with limited experience and tools are unknown. It' s good to strive for the absolute best performance. Accepting less than optimal is not a sin and can sometimes save your sanity and your marriage.
Remember; the bow, the arrow, and the shooter all have to be in ' synch' to get perfect results. What the individual is willing to settle for is their call. What results the individual is capable of getting with limited experience and tools are unknown. It' s good to strive for the absolute best performance. Accepting less than optimal is not a sin and can sometimes save your sanity and your marriage.
05-06-2003, 08:46 PM
#12
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,862
RE: Arrow Flight different with broadheads vs. field points
Len
However, if the broadheads do not hit exactly where the field point hits, or " ...closely" to where the field points hit, what does the difference in impact of two different heads with different aerodynamics indicate? Are you saying that the shooter is inexperienced, or unskilled, or settling for less than can be obtained.
I disagree with your following claim, because it has a sound of " ALWAYS" to it.
Maybe some do struggle to get their broadheads to fly like their field points. I never have. I only use field points to shoot a target to determine that everything is tuned and adjusted properly for the best performance of myself and the bow, Once I determine that, from that point on and until hunting season is over, I shoot and tune with broadheads only.
I have never heard a good reason given why one should or must tune their gear to get broadheads to fly like field points. If my broadheads are flying well, my accuracy with the broadheads is tight and consistent - and they are and do, why should I care where my field points NOW hit?
With the primary bow I use, my broadheads fly very well and tightly group at (about) 3" to left and 3" down from where my field point mounted shafts hit. I set my sights to bring the broadheads into the center. That simple. I know I can put my broadheads into the kill-zone at 50-yards, but restrict my shots to 30-yards maximum.
Can someone please provide a realistic and convincing answer why broadheads must or should hit where field points hit? I have not yet heard one.
However, if the broadheads do not hit exactly where the field point hits, or " ...closely" to where the field points hit, what does the difference in impact of two different heads with different aerodynamics indicate? Are you saying that the shooter is inexperienced, or unskilled, or settling for less than can be obtained.
I disagree with your following claim, because it has a sound of " ALWAYS" to it.
" ….if EVERYTHING is right, they should impact VERY closely and hopefully into the same spot."
I have never heard a good reason given why one should or must tune their gear to get broadheads to fly like field points. If my broadheads are flying well, my accuracy with the broadheads is tight and consistent - and they are and do, why should I care where my field points NOW hit?
With the primary bow I use, my broadheads fly very well and tightly group at (about) 3" to left and 3" down from where my field point mounted shafts hit. I set my sights to bring the broadheads into the center. That simple. I know I can put my broadheads into the kill-zone at 50-yards, but restrict my shots to 30-yards maximum.
Can someone please provide a realistic and convincing answer why broadheads must or should hit where field points hit? I have not yet heard one.
05-06-2003, 08:56 PM
#13
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Arrow Flight different with broadheads vs. field points
I' ve never heard a good reason for same POI, besides convenience. It' s nice to switch heads and have them shoot to the same hole, but I' ve never considered it a requirement. But then, I' m not blessed with an obsessive/compulsive disorder either.
05-06-2003, 09:06 PM
#14
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Clarendon NC USA
Posts: 216
RE: Arrow Flight different with broadheads vs. field points
ORIGINAL: Mainah77
Thanks for the responses,
I appreciate you all taking the time to look at my question. I have my bow sighted in for my broadheads at this time. When you practice do you tend to shoot old broadheads into the target? What stinks about practicing with broadheads is that you' re more apt to hit your arrows, fletchings and the other broadheads. Is that something you all run into as well? I only shoot 2 to 3 arrows at a time, but I have ruined a bunch of arrows regardless. It is getting expensive.
Thoughts?
I shoot Muzzy 100 grain 3 blades and I can' t tell much difference from my field tips. Muzzy supplies 3 practice blades (not sharp) with each 6 pack which I use a couple of weeks before the season...I keep shooting my field tips and plug the practice blade broadhead in every now and then. This practice blade doesn' t tear my target up and seems to be a replicate the real hunting blades...
W.Dale
Thanks for the responses,
I appreciate you all taking the time to look at my question. I have my bow sighted in for my broadheads at this time. When you practice do you tend to shoot old broadheads into the target? What stinks about practicing with broadheads is that you' re more apt to hit your arrows, fletchings and the other broadheads. Is that something you all run into as well? I only shoot 2 to 3 arrows at a time, but I have ruined a bunch of arrows regardless. It is getting expensive.
Thoughts?
I shoot Muzzy 100 grain 3 blades and I can' t tell much difference from my field tips. Muzzy supplies 3 practice blades (not sharp) with each 6 pack which I use a couple of weeks before the season...I keep shooting my field tips and plug the practice blade broadhead in every now and then. This practice blade doesn' t tear my target up and seems to be a replicate the real hunting blades...
W.Dale
05-06-2003, 09:28 PM
#15
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Arrow Flight different with broadheads vs. field points
Here is a good reason.those of us that shoot year round and are not able to shoot broadheads at targets in a tournament will be able to simulate as near to a hunting situation as possible.If we are confident that a broadhead is going to shoot exactly the same place as the field point,then 1 variable has been eliminated.Basically what Arthur said.Conveniance.
I am sure that Len Knows this to be true.If you tune a bow the exact way it is meant to be tuned(and shooter).If center shot is correct.If the cam or cams are in time or sinc.If the cam lean has been eliminated.If fletching contact has been eliminated.If arrow spine is perfect.Arrow is level at full draw.No torque from shooter.Top and bottom cams are in line with each other.The broadheads and field points can' t help but to hit in almost the exact place.
The only difference you should see is that at longer distances(40 yards or more)depending on the broadhead design,the broadhead may start impacting a little lower because of nothing more than drag.My last hunting setup was 1" low at 40 yards with a 100 gr Thunderhead.I didn' t even use them to hunt with but I did screw 1 on to see where it would hit.I used Rocket expandables last year.Go figure that kind of flight from a broadhead and still use an expandable.
Now all that being said.Is it NECESSARY for them to hit the exact same place?NO.But it is completely possible to have them extremely close and if everything is near PERFECT, they will be.
I also don' t think a person should pull his hair out trying to get them to hit exactly the same.It is just something that will come with time and experience tuning.Some bows are easier than others to achieve a near pefect tune.
So basically I agree with everyone.
I am sure that Len Knows this to be true.If you tune a bow the exact way it is meant to be tuned(and shooter).If center shot is correct.If the cam or cams are in time or sinc.If the cam lean has been eliminated.If fletching contact has been eliminated.If arrow spine is perfect.Arrow is level at full draw.No torque from shooter.Top and bottom cams are in line with each other.The broadheads and field points can' t help but to hit in almost the exact place.
The only difference you should see is that at longer distances(40 yards or more)depending on the broadhead design,the broadhead may start impacting a little lower because of nothing more than drag.My last hunting setup was 1" low at 40 yards with a 100 gr Thunderhead.I didn' t even use them to hunt with but I did screw 1 on to see where it would hit.I used Rocket expandables last year.Go figure that kind of flight from a broadhead and still use an expandable.
Now all that being said.Is it NECESSARY for them to hit the exact same place?NO.But it is completely possible to have them extremely close and if everything is near PERFECT, they will be.
I also don' t think a person should pull his hair out trying to get them to hit exactly the same.It is just something that will come with time and experience tuning.Some bows are easier than others to achieve a near pefect tune.
So basically I agree with everyone.
05-06-2003, 09:35 PM
#16
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Baltimore Maryland USA
Posts: 1,385
RE: Arrow Flight different with broadheads vs. field points
OK, here is " a realistic and convincing answer" that is not " blessed with an obsessive/compulsive disorder" .
Bow and arrow related efficiency which correlates into extra kinetic energy.
Bow and arrow related efficiency which correlates into extra kinetic energy.
05-06-2003, 09:45 PM
#17
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Arrow Flight different with broadheads vs. field points
Being someone that is in the 50' s with ke I know the importance and have seen the difference between good and almost perfect tune.
Someone in the 80' s may not have the same need for a near perfect tune,unless they are shooting 300 fps.[:-]
Good point Len.[&:]
Someone in the 80' s may not have the same need for a near perfect tune,unless they are shooting 300 fps.[:-]
Good point Len.[&:]
05-06-2003, 11:46 PM
#18
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,862
RE: Arrow Flight different with broadheads vs. field points
If your broadhead mounted shafts are perfectly tuned to the bow, or the bow to the shafts -whatever way you want to look at it, and your hunting shafts are flying clean and consistently flying true and accurate, meaning the shaft will obtain the best KE possible from the setup, where does the field point mounted shaft come into play? Why does the field point come into play?
If you have tuned your broadheads to the degree that flight and accuracy is consistently excellent, but the field point mounted shafts do not hit where the broadheads do, what does it matter? I still do not understand why the flight of a field point should be compared and relevant.
Convenience does not mean absolutely, supposed to, has to, or necessary. Convenience is simply an individual choice. Or, as ArthurP said, " ...an obsessive/compulsive disorder!"
Maybe I am having a difficult time understanding why the flight and POI of the two should be mated, because I do not hunt large game with field points.
If you have tuned your broadheads to the degree that flight and accuracy is consistently excellent, but the field point mounted shafts do not hit where the broadheads do, what does it matter? I still do not understand why the flight of a field point should be compared and relevant.
Convenience does not mean absolutely, supposed to, has to, or necessary. Convenience is simply an individual choice. Or, as ArthurP said, " ...an obsessive/compulsive disorder!"
Maybe I am having a difficult time understanding why the flight and POI of the two should be mated, because I do not hunt large game with field points.
05-07-2003, 05:54 AM
#19
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,413
RE: Arrow Flight different with broadheads vs. field points
It may not be necessary to have both hitting in the same spot, but I feel better about my bow' s tune, when they do. If they don' t, I know that my broadhead is planing, and most likely because the arrow is not leaving the bow in the manner that it should. I also realize that with the proper FOC and with good drag from the fletching, that the arrow will straighten out and will probably group well. However, I' ve found it relatively easy to get them to hit in the same spot if I have good FOC and experiment with different draw weights (spine adjustments without using different arrows), in combination with center shot and nock height adjustments.
05-07-2003, 06:11 AM
#20
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Good Ol\' Maine
Posts: 6
RE: Arrow Flight different with broadheads vs. field points
Hey Guys,
I guess the biggest reason I would like to see my BH arrows having the same POI as my FP arrows is for convienience. I am strictly a hunter and don' t shoot in comp' s or tourney' s so when I practice I tend to practice with FP. I guess that is just the way I was taught. So with that I have my FP sighted in and when it comes down to hunting season I have to re-adjust my sight. (Turkey Hunting this time of year). I guess it doesn' t matter like I have heard that they hit at the same POI, but it makes it that much easier to make the switch when hunting season starts.
I have been told by a guy at the local bow shop that he uses longer feather fletchings that have the fletchings twisted more. (I can' t remember the exact term he used for that)? helical?? Anyhoo, he said that his arrows come off spinning causing less drag and having his BH hitting where his FP are hitting. The draw back for this setup I think would be more drag and less speed, plus the arrows flight has some added noise to it. I am looking for performance in order to feel 100% comfortable drawing back and being able to have a clean kill shot on the game hunted.
P.S. I have been trying out two sets of arrows as of late. The Easton A/C/C carbon and the traditional Easton Aluminum arrows. I notice the Aluminum are shooting more consistant. However, I am sure that the reason why is do two tunning the bow for one style or the other. Do you prefer carbon arrows or aluminum. I just think with carbon arrows you' re less apt to ruin arrows if you happen to miss the target. Plus, I know of a guy that has used the same arrow to kill 4 deer. That is amazing to me!
Thanks for the responses they have helped me understand what is going on with my arrow flight. I am new to the technical part of the sport and just want to get more involved with it. I have a LOT to LEARN.
Corey
I guess the biggest reason I would like to see my BH arrows having the same POI as my FP arrows is for convienience. I am strictly a hunter and don' t shoot in comp' s or tourney' s so when I practice I tend to practice with FP. I guess that is just the way I was taught. So with that I have my FP sighted in and when it comes down to hunting season I have to re-adjust my sight. (Turkey Hunting this time of year). I guess it doesn' t matter like I have heard that they hit at the same POI, but it makes it that much easier to make the switch when hunting season starts.
I have been told by a guy at the local bow shop that he uses longer feather fletchings that have the fletchings twisted more. (I can' t remember the exact term he used for that)? helical?? Anyhoo, he said that his arrows come off spinning causing less drag and having his BH hitting where his FP are hitting. The draw back for this setup I think would be more drag and less speed, plus the arrows flight has some added noise to it. I am looking for performance in order to feel 100% comfortable drawing back and being able to have a clean kill shot on the game hunted.
P.S. I have been trying out two sets of arrows as of late. The Easton A/C/C carbon and the traditional Easton Aluminum arrows. I notice the Aluminum are shooting more consistant. However, I am sure that the reason why is do two tunning the bow for one style or the other. Do you prefer carbon arrows or aluminum. I just think with carbon arrows you' re less apt to ruin arrows if you happen to miss the target. Plus, I know of a guy that has used the same arrow to kill 4 deer. That is amazing to me!
Thanks for the responses they have helped me understand what is going on with my arrow flight. I am new to the technical part of the sport and just want to get more involved with it. I have a LOT to LEARN.
Corey