Dropaway conversation
02-26-2009, 10:42 AM
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Dropaway conversation
ORIGINAL: mfd1027
All this tech. talk has gotten to me. I've tried hard to get used to my Limbdriver but it ain't happening. Everytime I pick up my bow to go out back and shoot (which is everyday) all I think about is rest timing, clearance, containment,that damn cable in my line of sight and the noise it makes as the control cable snaps back to the loaded position (kind of like popping a towel). I'm real good at killing animals but I'm not cut out to be a tech guy.
Don't take this wrong I wish I was smart enough to understand all this stuff but admit that I'm not. I'm going back to the simple life and my three prong containment rest. If anyone wants to try out a Limbdriver PM me and I will send you mine. I'm serious. I'm going out back to make friends with my bow again! 
Dan
All this tech. talk has gotten to me. I've tried hard to get used to my Limbdriver but it ain't happening. Everytime I pick up my bow to go out back and shoot (which is everyday) all I think about is rest timing, clearance, containment,that damn cable in my line of sight and the noise it makes as the control cable snaps back to the loaded position (kind of like popping a towel). I'm real good at killing animals but I'm not cut out to be a tech guy.
Don't take this wrong I wish I was smart enough to understand all this stuff but admit that I'm not. I'm going back to the simple life and my three prong containment rest. If anyone wants to try out a Limbdriver PM me and I will send you mine. I'm serious. I'm going out back to make friends with my bow again! Dan
02-26-2009, 12:01 PM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Central PA
Posts: 2,299
RE: Dropaway conversation
Well guys...this is the TECHNICAL forum.
There are many other variables that go into what makes a particular rest more forgiving or accurate. There are two things that I try to do with any rest I put on a bow. Set the bow as close to centering the berger holes as I can, and more importantly IMO, mounting the rest as close to the riser as I can get it and still have it setup properly. The reason is simple, the throat of the grip is your pivot point (where hand torque comes from). If the rest is touching the arrow shaft directly above this pivot point or as close as you can get it, hand torque is reduced.
My old rest, an APA Twister Safari, did an outstanding job of putting me above this pivot point because of its design. My Whammy, as with almost every other rest out there, put it behind this pivot point. THe idea is to get it as close as you can.
There are many other variables that go into what makes a particular rest more forgiving or accurate. There are two things that I try to do with any rest I put on a bow. Set the bow as close to centering the berger holes as I can, and more importantly IMO, mounting the rest as close to the riser as I can get it and still have it setup properly. The reason is simple, the throat of the grip is your pivot point (where hand torque comes from). If the rest is touching the arrow shaft directly above this pivot point or as close as you can get it, hand torque is reduced.
My old rest, an APA Twister Safari, did an outstanding job of putting me above this pivot point because of its design. My Whammy, as with almost every other rest out there, put it behind this pivot point. THe idea is to get it as close as you can.
02-26-2009, 01:12 PM
#13
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Dropaway conversation
Even in theory 1,the string is still attached to the arrow when torque is applied so if there is no guidance up front,the arrow will stray further than it will if there is guidance at the front.Torque is magnified at the back end and is very small at the rest,especially if you are above your hand with the rest(remember the problems with overdraws).It is conceivable in theory that if the torque is bad enough,the arrow would hit the riser if the rest wasn't in contact with the arrow.
There is a reason the pros have been using springsteel rest for decades,even with really touchy risers of years past.They are more forgiving,even in torque induced situations,no,ESPECIALLY in torque induced situations.
Remember when torque is applied,the cams actually turn and are pointed away from the target,so if there is no contact with the rest,the arrow is pointed in a completely different direction than the string path.Wonder how a fixed blade head would do in this situation.
I'll take the extra guidance anyday.
I have shot with both and know that when I am using a springsteel rest or a whammy that when I make a bad release and or torque a shot that my results are better than when using an early drop fallaway.
There is a reason the pros have been using springsteel rest for decades,even with really touchy risers of years past.They are more forgiving,even in torque induced situations,no,ESPECIALLY in torque induced situations.
Remember when torque is applied,the cams actually turn and are pointed away from the target,so if there is no contact with the rest,the arrow is pointed in a completely different direction than the string path.Wonder how a fixed blade head would do in this situation.
I'll take the extra guidance anyday.
I have shot with both and know that when I am using a springsteel rest or a whammy that when I make a bad release and or torque a shot that my results are better than when using an early drop fallaway.
02-26-2009, 01:20 PM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Dropaway conversation
ORIGINAL: TFOX
Even in theory 1,the string is still attached to the arrow when torque is applied so if there is no guidance up front,the arrow will stray further than it will if there is guidance at the front.Torque is magnified at the back end and is very small at the rest,especially if you are above your hand with the rest(remember the problems with overdraws).It is conceivable in theory that if the torque is bad enough,the arrow would hit the riser if the rest wasn't in contact with the arrow.
There is a reason the pros have been using springsteel rest for decades,even with really touchy risers of years past.They are more forgiving,even in torque induced situations,no,ESPECIALLY in torque induced situations.
Even in theory 1,the string is still attached to the arrow when torque is applied so if there is no guidance up front,the arrow will stray further than it will if there is guidance at the front.Torque is magnified at the back end and is very small at the rest,especially if you are above your hand with the rest(remember the problems with overdraws).It is conceivable in theory that if the torque is bad enough,the arrow would hit the riser if the rest wasn't in contact with the arrow.
There is a reason the pros have been using springsteel rest for decades,even with really touchy risers of years past.They are more forgiving,even in torque induced situations,no,ESPECIALLY in torque induced situations.
02-26-2009, 01:27 PM
#15
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Dropaway conversation
ORIGINAL: TFOX
Even in theory 1,the string is still attached to the arrow when torque is applied so if there is no guidance up front,the arrow will stray further than it will if there is guidance at the front.Torque is magnified at the back end and is very small at the rest,especially if you are above your hand with the rest(remember the problems with overdraws).It is conceivable in theory that if the torque is bad enough,the arrow would hit the riser if the rest wasn't in contact with the arrow.
There is a reason the pros have been using springsteel rest for decades,even with really touchy risers of years past.They are more forgiving,even in torque induced situations,no,ESPECIALLY in torque induced situations.
Remember when torque is applied,the cams actually turn and are pointed away from the target,so if there is no contact with the rest,the arrow is pointed in a completely different direction than the string path.Wonder how a fixed blade head would do in this situation.
I'll take the extra guidance anyday.
I have shot with both and know that when I am using a springsteel rest or a whammy that when I make a bad release and or torque a shot that my results are better than when using an early drop fallaway.
Even in theory 1,the string is still attached to the arrow when torque is applied so if there is no guidance up front,the arrow will stray further than it will if there is guidance at the front.Torque is magnified at the back end and is very small at the rest,especially if you are above your hand with the rest(remember the problems with overdraws).It is conceivable in theory that if the torque is bad enough,the arrow would hit the riser if the rest wasn't in contact with the arrow.
There is a reason the pros have been using springsteel rest for decades,even with really touchy risers of years past.They are more forgiving,even in torque induced situations,no,ESPECIALLY in torque induced situations.
Remember when torque is applied,the cams actually turn and are pointed away from the target,so if there is no contact with the rest,the arrow is pointed in a completely different direction than the string path.Wonder how a fixed blade head would do in this situation.
I'll take the extra guidance anyday.
I have shot with both and know that when I am using a springsteel rest or a whammy that when I make a bad release and or torque a shot that my results are better than when using an early drop fallaway.
This was added before as you were posting big.
I even remember trying to get more forgiveness out of my Trophy Takers by adding some rubber on my rest cable to have it stay up longer but not add extra tension to my cables.Reason,I needed it up longer(can't believe I just said that on an open forum
)
02-26-2009, 01:29 PM
#16
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Dropaway conversation
Big,being a hunter or a pro archer is irrelevant,the point is which is more forgiving and in my educated opinion,the rest that stays up longer and still gives complete fletching clearance is more forgiving for both, especially if they torque a bow.
I actually used to torque a bow pretty good myself.[&:]
I actually used to torque a bow pretty good myself.[&:]
02-26-2009, 01:37 PM
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Dropaway conversation
Well, I have tried rests timed to drop within 1" of full draw. And thats a different story. But I time mine to stay up within 3" of full draw usually. When an arrow is released, its probably more like 5" with speed of things happening. But I also will put tension on my downwards cable. I hear folks complain about this, but can't say I have seen any issues with this with single or binary cams.
02-26-2009, 01:49 PM
#18
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Dropaway conversation
Coming up a full 3" early of full draw will have the rest up a long time at release.That is what I usually did as well and I had no huge issues with cable torque but I prefer as little as possible.The rubber idea was a great idea,just the rubber would not hold up and was demolished in short order.
In no way am I saying that early drop fallaways are not accurate.All rest are accurate,it is just that some are more forgiving than others.MOST are more than adequate to get the job done on the range or in the field.
In no way am I saying that early drop fallaways are not accurate.All rest are accurate,it is just that some are more forgiving than others.MOST are more than adequate to get the job done on the range or in the field.
02-26-2009, 08:38 PM
#19
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Henderson, KY
Posts: 1,760
RE: Dropaway conversation
ORIGINAL: muzzyman88
bigcountry, you bring up a very good point. For the masses, most will say and notice that theory #1 is more consistant for them, especially at hunting distances.
For the guys that have good form and shoot very well, then theory #2 is perhaps the way to go. However, in most cases, traditional drop aways are still more than adequate for a hunting setup.
Me, I'm on the fence. I'm a hunter first and foremost, but I also want the most accuracy I can obtain. For me, that is the LD or Whammy.
bigcountry, you bring up a very good point. For the masses, most will say and notice that theory #1 is more consistant for them, especially at hunting distances.
For the guys that have good form and shoot very well, then theory #2 is perhaps the way to go. However, in most cases, traditional drop aways are still more than adequate for a hunting setup.
Me, I'm on the fence. I'm a hunter first and foremost, but I also want the most accuracy I can obtain. For me, that is the LD or Whammy.
I do love target shooting and it is more important to me (as far as equipment) than hunting. The way i see it is this... Last year i probably shot upwards of 7-10,000 times. 3 of those were at deer. 3 of those deer died. Imho, it doesnt take all of this technical mumbo jumbo that most of us go through to do the deed
I like most though, want to have my setup rock solid, but... i admit that i dont think it is necessarry anymore now that i shoot target soo much. I honestly think that i could easily go out and shoot a pse nova at 55#'s and kill my deer I believe most like BC said are the same way as theory #1. They dont NEED the super forgiving, but shooter reliable setup. They need something that will get the job done, and make their job as fail proof as possible. Thats why i say whisker bisquits for lots of people!!! Most dont need to shoot 4 in. groups at 60 yards. They need to kill deer at around a maximum of 30-40 or so and a tm hunter will do the job.
So... in a nutshell i guess some people dont need a rest like the LD or the Whammy b/c it will take time and effort to perfect the system to make its full potential, and most bowhunters dont have that kind of time to perfect their shooting. That is no put down, its just the truth. Archery is my thing, but for most, the bow is just the tool that they use to get the critter. The hunt and harvest is what is intriguing, not the weapon.
Theory #3???
Derek
02-27-2009, 04:12 AM
#20
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 305
RE: Dropaway conversation
TFOX,I have read and understand what you have stated. It makes sense to me. However, how can one explain the WB and how unforgiving it is then? It's the same concept is it not? I used to shoot one then went to the ultra rest timed to fall within the first inch or so of release. My groups improved instantly. I suppose I was torquing my bow at times to some extent but over all my groups improved even with that in mind. Not trying to argue here, simply trying to put all of this together considering I have different drop away rests.
Derek, I like your #3 theory and believe it is correct for many shooters.
Ed
Derek, I like your #3 theory and believe it is correct for many shooters.
Ed
