Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

Hey guys,

I just got back from fishing a little while ago and I decided to go shoot my bow. I decided to try something new, so, I went out, and shot the thing without a peep, and I decided to sight it in without a peep. I got it to the point where I was getting 3-4" groups at 25 yards, which isn' t too bad considering that I have always used bows with peep sights. At 25 and 20 yards, I was holding groups just as good as I was getting last year out of my MT Sport (2" groups), and at 15 yards I was better than last year. I got my first " Robinhood" ever today. It was a great feeling, but, at the same time, it sucked because I totally ruined one of my new arrows. [:@][:' (][:@]

So, now I am thinking about just going without a peep. If I am getting these type of results, then do I really need a peep? I can see the pins much better without a peep, and my sight view isn' t blurry (with a peep sight, my view was very slightly blurry).

Who here shoots without a peep, and what is the benefits of this during a hunt? Does it allow you to shoot in darker enviroments? I would imagine that it does.

Any info on this would be appreciated. Well guys, I am going out to paper tune and get some more shooting in. This 75 degree day, with no clouds in the sky is NICE :D

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

Don' t Do it!!!!!

Either get a no-peep or use a peep.

You did that under PERFECT conditions. As you know things get real tricky when hunting. Nerves, Angles, odd positions - and make it much harder.

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

Ya, I was thinking the odd position of a shot from up in a treestand would definatley make the string not anchor up right if you didn' t have a peep or kisser there to help you maintain anchor. (did that make any sense?)
Your thinking about possible speed gains again aren' t you[>:]

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

Ditto, get a no-peep system or a hindsight but don' t just go peepless.

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

I know lots of people who do not use a peep who are very good archers. In fact, the best shooter I know, does not use a peep and he' s unbelievable. Myself, I have the no-peep on my bow, but hardly ever look at it. Once you' ve practiced enough, even the no-peep is not needed.

I switched because my eyesight is not the best and getting worse every year. I see my target much better without a peep. Even mid-day, I see better. I' ve also never been one who wanted something on my bow, when hunting, if there was a chance that it would interfer with a shot. I love hunting without a peep and would never go back.

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

Yaaay, for Buck Magnet!

Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty, he is free at last!"

Buck, you stick to your guns. You do not need the peep sight. To say you cannot shoot consistently accurate without a peep is like saying you cannot shoot accurately without a release, without a fall-away rest, without mechanical broadheads, without plastic vanes, without a 300 fps bow, etc.

Peeps are for targets and Styrofoam quarry; peeps are not best suited for hunting. The very first device that was used to maintain a consistent anchor point, was a kisser button. Many non-peep shooters still use just a kisser button and string to nose or cheek.

Hunting without a peep-sight will open new doors for you. No more peep rotation, no sliding out of position, no rubber hoses to align your peep, no more unnecessary forces playing upon the strands of your string. No more dreading the shaded areas in the timber. No more blurred peep from the sun. What do you do if the peep misaligns or pops out while in the field?

Now you can see earlier and see later. No more passing on legal time still available because you cannot see through the peep. No more moisture, ice, dust, in the peep hole, blocking your vision. No weird and unreliable gadgets that are meant to assist in conditioning form, not sighting.

Until you get it down pat, you will have some days when you are not sure you made the right decision. Stick with it. You have to recondition yourself -and you will. The payoff is great. You only need a peep if you are not ready and willing to learn how to shoot consistently accurate without one …like every one used to do…shoot accurately without a peep.

I triangulate my anchor and sighting by the use of two medium sized kissers. 1 button touches the right side of my nostril, the other button touches the right side of my lip.

It is now so ingrained, that I do not consciously feel for the buttons to be in place. I now instantly feel if they are not touching where they are supposed to, and I can correct in a flash. I can hold the anchor position no matter what body position I am in when I need to take a shot. In fact, the 2-button method forces my head to stay properly aligned. The times I tried a peep sight, I found that certain body positions so common to hunting actually forced my eye away from the peep, or past the peep.

Pratice, practice, practice; not adjust, adjust, fix, fix!

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

Not everyone can do it successfully,but if you can realize Great Accuracy without it,then grab life by the Horn' s and go with it.Ive been shooting without a Peep of any kind for over 35 year' s,and see no difference between having one,and not!BUT it takes Practice,and a Good Repeatable Anchor is A MUST! Ive taken my Share of Game without it,and can Stack the Arrow' s in the Bull,out to 50 +yard' s,but then again,ive had lot' s of Practice with this Method.Be Patient,and dont get Discouraged,some Day' s are Good,Some not so Great,Stay Consistent,and Reap the Benifit' s of not having the Excuse of saying," I could have Shot him,BUT i couldn' t see through my Peep" ! Good Luck!

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

I' ve never had a peep and inquired about one this year and was told by the pro that the way I shoot I don' t need one. Although he did put on a kisser in which I' ve never used, in over twenty years of shooting. Ican' t see any difference.

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

Not only does it take TONS of practice - but for the most part you nedd a kisser or two to get a good anchor.

And we all know BM is not going to slow that bow down with a ton of rubber on the string - that mite bring him under 300 fps.[:o]

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

Rack-Attack,

Its not about speed at all. If I don' t need one, why use it? It is just another thing to worry about. I have months to practice, I have very good form, and I always have a kisser button here if I need it. I can always install a peep if I feel it is nessacary, but, I really don' t think that it is. All a peep is, is a hole that helps you judge your form. This past year, I was at the point where the peep was no use. I looked through it, but, that was only because it was in my sight view. I was at the point where I drew my bow back, didn' t focus on the peep at all, just focused on the pins, and shot.

I am not using this bow for any target or 3-D shoots. It is just for hunting. I could see having a peep if I was into 3-D shooting, but, that is only because you are trying to hit a EXACT spot. Don' t get me wrong, when I am hunting, I am picking a spot and trying to hit it, but, I have more margin for error. By this I mean that if I hit within two inches of where I am aiming, I am still going to get a good shot, but, when 3-D shooting, you are trying hit a nickel sized target.

I am going to give it a try and see how it works. I don' t see any downside to trying it out.

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

IMO, shooting without a peep or No Peep can cost you some accuracy, especially from odd positions. I have tried to shoot without a peep a few times, and was always frustrated with inconsistency past 30 yards.:(

Two years ago, I had a situation where a buck came in at last light, and I could clearly see the fiber optic pin through the peep, but not the deer, or at least not well enough to pick a spot to aim at. This has happened a few times with doe as well.[:' (]

I started using a different system to anchor. The cock fletch out touches my lip, and a kisser touches my nose at my anchor point. Using this anchor, and practicing with it a lot has improved my accuracy a great deal. Last spring and summer, I was pretty consistently nailing a 2" spot at 40 yards without a peep. I did practice from odd positions, and from my tree stand until I was hitting well under these circumstances as well. When the doe presented me with a shot last fall, it was getting pretty dark on a cloudy day. I could clearly see the spot I wanted to aim at as well as my pin, and was able to make a good shot.:D

There are definite pros and cons to shooting without a peep sight. One pro right now is the fact that there is a lot of time between now and deer season to see if this will really work for you in all situations. It may not:(, but it also might.:)

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

BM, doing away with your peep site is definately doable for a hunting bow. It does allow you to see better in lower light conditions.

There are two reasons why I personally use them for hunting.
1. When you have a good hunting peep and it becomes dark enough to prevent you from seeing good enough to shoot at a deer with total confidence, it is too dark to film, and probably past legal shooting time.

2. Lets say you are not worried about filming, our legal shooting time.....when it gets too dark for a regular peep site, can you tell for sure which side of your bowstring your pins are on.

Try it in broad daylight, purposely look on one side of your string and shoot a couple arrows at 20 yards. Now look down the other side of your string and shoot at 20 yards. See how much your two groups are apart.

They are further apart than I want to deal with.

You can shoot accurately without a peep site without a doubt.

There is one other thing that is without doubt....you can shoot better with one!;)

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

You will be more accurate,especially at longer ranges,with a peep.Why else would every target archer use them?Now, you can be accurate enough at normal hunting ranges if you are consistent with your anchor.But be sure to put on your hat,headnet etc. and get in your stand and practice shooting at odd angles.That is where you will have problems.I' ve shot with and without the peep.I am more accurate with the peep. The only negative is you lose a little shooting time at dusk.But if you can' t see thru the peep it' s probably past legal shooting hours anyway.To me it' s a small trade off for being more consistent and accurate.


CB

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

Cajun

Considering that a peep sight is just a different device to enable a shooter to establish a consistent head position and to place his or her sighting eye in the same location e.g. height and horizontal position, how is that a peep sight enables better accuracy at greater distances?

Additionally, What target shooters use is not always necessary or good for bowhunters to use.

In addition, how does a peep sight eliminate the cumbering of a hat or cap bill or rim, a head-net, face mask, etc? I do not wear head-cover that has a protruding bill or rim, and I never wear any material on my face that can change my anchor or become snagged in the string….especially a head-net.

I will agree that there are shooters who will not put the necessary effort into learning to shoot well without certain aids, and require certain aids (devices) to compensate for his or her self imposed shooting deficiency. But to believe that no one can shoot as consistently accurate without a peep as someone who uses a peep, or that a peep is the only rear alignment device that works, is a gross misconception.

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

Bingo! It is called practice, lots of practice. I`m certain if you practice enough, you could be just as accurate without a peep, or a release.

Probably could do away with those pesky wheels at the end of the limbs too!

Lets wake up and smell the coffee, if you or ANYONE, could be every bit as accurate without a peep sight, they would not be used.

Are they an absolute for hunting? Heck no.

Are they an absolute for target shooting?(spots or 3-D) Only if you want to win!;)

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

A peep sight not only serves as a device to align the eye with the sight,ie anchor position.But it serves as a visual alignment aid because you can center the pin in the peep.Ever notice that target archers use small apperatures on their peeps.If you are not using a peep sight you are(usually)aligning the side of the string with the pin.If the pin is a hair off of the string you may not notice.At twenty or thirty yards this error may not be significant.At 40-50 yards it will be.A peep makes it easier to maintain a consistent sight picture.

My point about target shooters using peeps was meant to show that using a peep is more accurate.

You missed my point here.Without a peep sight it is alot easier to have inconsistencies in anchor or sight alignment.This is made alot worse during actual hunting conditions.The point is you need to practice in your hunting clothes from a stand at different angles to be sure you can be consistent with your anchor.

As for the last point,yes you can get quite good without a peep at hunting ranges.hell I' ve watched byron ferguson shoot poker chips out of the air with a longbow shooting instintive.But you won' t win the IBO tripple crown shooting without one either.The time you spend learning to shoot without a peep could be better spent learning back tension and proper form imho.

CB

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

There are pros and cons to every option available to hunters. We could all strive for the utmost accuracy and put on those 3 foot stabilizers, sights with scopes extending a foot out in front of the bow. We could use bows that have 40" + ATAs, while shooting back tension releases. We could use peeps with the smallest holes, on bows with extremely low draw weights for easy pulling.

Now the question is, how much of this do you need to kill an animal at the ranges you typically shoot at? Which of these options can you drop in favor of a method more suitable to hunting conditions. If you give up a 1/2" of accuracy, will it matter if you' re shooting at a deer at 12 yards, in a dense forest, 3 minutes before end of legal shooting? Given the senerios you' re likely to encounter while hunting, what are the best options for you?

For me, in my hunting situations, I' m completely convinced that I will take more deer without a peep, than with one - many more. My shots are typically very close in very dense hardwoods. Most of the opportunities I get for a shot, occur when lighting is poor - the beginning and end of shooting times, in dense cover. In more than 30 years of bowhunting deer, I' ve experienced many lost opportunities because of poor equipment choices, like peeps. I don' t ever remember losing an opportunity because I thought I was not accurate enough without a peep, and I only used a peep for 3 of those years. It' s up to each of us to decide which options will allow us more opportunities to be a successful hunter. For me, the choice is clear. I won' t be using a 3' stabilizer or a peep, regardless of how much more accurate either makes me.

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

Big Country

Unless the circumstances made it an absolute necessity, I will not take a 40-50 yard. However, using field points or broadheads, I can put my shafts in the kill zone up to 50 yards, from a stand, using different body positions to shoot from. I also know that I am not the only " ANYONE" that does not use a peep and can shoot with good hunting accuracy.

Do not misunderstand. If a person chooses to use a peep-sight, or knows he or she shoots better with a peep-sight, that is their call and their preference/use should not invite ridicule. However, to say that a peep-sight is mandatory, and that a bowHUNTER cannot shoot as accurate without a peep is ridiculous.

If the shooter comprehends the necessity of a consistent anchor and eye alignment, knows how to establish reference points tailored for the shooter, and practices until he or she is consistently accurate without having to think about his/her anchor/alignment, a bowhunter can be just as accurate without a peep-sight as someone using a peep-sight

Some here keep referring to target shooting, extreme shooting distances, and hair-width alignment to justify the use of a peep. I am talking about hunting conditions and normal shooting distances when hunting. Big difference. If you were to look at two dead dear, lying side-by-side, both having a hit in the kill zone, I would wager big money that no one can tell which hit was made by the peep-sight shooter, and which hit was made by the shooter not using a peep-sight.

Regardless who may be making the shot, peep user or not, I doubt that either shooter has telephoto vision and can select a particular hair on the deer to put the pin on. Therefore, that means that either shooter is placing his/her pin in a " judged" center of a " general" area commonly known as the " kill zone," and hopes that the shaft will, at least, hit somewhere in the 8" -9" diameter vital area should Mr. Murphy arrive on the scene just as the arrow is released.

If a peep-sight always assures best accuracy, why do shooters who use a peep sight miss or just wound?

My primary point is to point out, that one does not need all the junk that is out there today for the purpose of bowhunting accuracy and speed. Why give up reliability and durability for supposed shooting edges that mean very little in the field? How many " over-junked" shooters have equipment failures in the field, or every minute they are on their stand they are praying that a particular piece of complex gear does not malfunction? How many misses or wounding without recovery occurs because a of malfunctioning or improperly adjusted complex gear, or the bow supersedes the overall skill of the shooter?

In 39 years of hunting, using several types of bows equipped with utilitarian accessories, I have never had one malfunction with any of my hunting setups, and I have eaten a lot of venison. Most of all, I have always been able to spend all of my physical and mental time enjoying just the hunt. I never have to allot my gear a second of thought or concern.

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

No, a peep sight definitely is not needed provided you find other ways to correctly align your head/line of sight. However, I would still suggest going to a no-peep first and then going with nothing at all. The No peep will train you to some extent in terms of head position, grip position, etc.... Once it becomes second nature to you then you probably will not use it further.

Just my two cents.

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

PA

The only information I have about a " No-Peep" is what I read (ad and user comments). Therefore, I am extremely limited to debate the value of a " No-Peep." However, it is just another device, seemingly complex to adjust and possibly prone to failure under hunting conditions. I consider the device an unnecessary accessory that can produce dependence.

In addition, it appears the accessory can create a " low light" predicament as the peep sight can. " No-Peep' s ad is, IMO, controversial. In one statement, the manufacturer indicates that the device is to assist in developing proper shooting form, in another statement the manufacturer indicates that the device is sighting accessory and replaces the need for any type of rear sight.

If the accessory is a sighting device, how is it that one can take it off after acquiring a conditioned form? If the " No-Peep" is not a sight, why do so many that intend to try it, or do use it, believe it is a rear sight?

How does it assure your sighting eye is at the right height and alignment? It is possible, using the gadget, that your eye and anchor can be wrong, and that the shooter manipulates the centering of the appliance with his or her bow hand, rather than adjusting anchor and eye?

Like I said, I do not have any personal experience with the " No-Peep," but the one thing that negatively strikes me the most, is the (seemingly) need to take your eye off the pin and the quarry; even momentarily.

Last, how is it that so many shooters learn to shoot extremely well without using such an apparatus as the " No-Peep?"

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

C903,

The no-peep is not a sight. It is an alignment devise, similar in concept to a kisser, but more precise. It confirms alignment of your eye precisely on the same plane in relationship to the devise each time (if you choose to use it). It can be affected by both the grip and the anchor. It doesn' t enable perfection, but it does a darn good job at getting one to repeat the same grip and same anchor on each shot. The important thing is, you don' t have to use it when it' s attached to your bow. I have one on my bow and only glance at it occasionally when practicing. When hunting, I don' t even think of it. I draw my bow to a trained anchor and grip with remarkable consistency (at least it' s remarkable for me). If it were to break the no-peep off the bow in the field (highly unlikely), I doubt I would even notice its absence.

It is not something I recommend using in the field. To me, it' s real benefit is as a training aid to develop a consistant grip and anchor. You can make a perfect shot without looking at it, once you' ve learned to replicate your grip and anchor.

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

c903, if I did not convey my thoughts clearly, I apologize.

I tried to state that using no peep system at all could easily still produce accuracy enough to be an effective hunter.

And I agree that long shots on game should be treated with care.

That being said, I have yet to see anybody competing in 3-d or spot shooting at a high level that would entertain the idea of going without a peepsight.

I know that is not hunting, as I tried to state in my last post.

And while I have no knowledge of the fairly new no peep type stuff, I can say that with todays string materials, you should never have a problem with a peepsight not turning correctly, or failing in any way.

As I did state in the last post, when you run out of light with a hunting peep, you are more than likely past legal shooting time anyhow.

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

Set everything up and sighted in some carbons today. Going from aluminum, this was my first time to try carbons and actually change my site for them and the flatter trajectory. Replacing a nock every now and then from the occasional robinhood, to carbons, which explode the back of the arrow. Totally trashing it, as I found out today. My first robinhood with a carbon.[:-]

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

Big Country

No apology necessary. Just playing the " Devil' s Advocate."

I always try to keep in mind that there are, most likely, hundreds of readers who come here to HNC looking for information and/or solutions, but never post. Therefore, the more we strain a subject, the better the information base.

Provocation invites response.

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

Well I' ve never really considered a piece of metal with a hole in it a complex piece of bowhunting hardware prone to failure.I too like the KISS method.It' s just alot easier for me to shoot accurately with a peep.Using a large apperature by the time you can' t see the pin it' s past legal shooting hours.As for peep alignment if you set it up properly or better yet use a string loop it' s not an issue.I just don' t see using a peep as a big handicap.

CB

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

c903,

Straightarrow pretty much posted my reply to you regarding your last post. To put it in another perspective, think of the No-Peep in the same terms as a wrist strap. It is there if you need it but you do not have to use it. Both are initially used to help with form issues but after repeated use their actual application becomes somewhat secondary. I still have a wrist strap on the bow but sometimes forget to use it and yet my groupings do not change. The same could be said of the No-Peep. It is a " training aid" as Straightarrow put it.


I do not understand the controversy here. Part of developing proper shooting form is consistant anchor points and head alignment. Being a sight accessory in this particular application would seem to help develop proper shooting form.

You answered your own question. Since the shooter is conditioned then there is no longer a need for the No-Peep to be used...as I made mention to in my first paragraph.

This is somewhat difficult to answer but I will give it a shot. The purpose of any sighting device is to allow the shooter to maintain consistant head position in relation to the front pin, dot, etc...and the line of sight to the intended target. A peep sight does this. The rear sight on a rifle does this and so does the No-Peep. But instead of having that " rear sight" close to the eye itself the No-peep allows that " sighting aid" to be closer to the front sight device and in the same frame of view in relation to the intended target.

There is a small dot and circle that you must align that verifies that your head, etc... is in the correct position. Torquing the grip, etc... shows up relatively easily with this device though by no means am I calling it fool proof.

But you are not really. As I stated above the No-peep is actually in the same sight frame as your sight pins, target, etc.... At some point it becomes almost peripheral in nature or subconscious if you will.

Two words...Time and Practice. Both are things that not every shooter has.

Now, to go back to my original post. By no means am I suggesting that the No-peep is the only way to go for BM' s situation, however, it would seem like somewhat of a natural progression that would make going without a peep sight an easier transition.

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

Very well explained PABowhtr. :)

RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
 

I' ve hunted without a peep sight for the past seven or so years. I use a kisser button at the corner of my mouth, place the string on the tip of my nose and align the pin right next to the left side of the string. Works like a charm. This system makes for a very repeatable anchor, but takes practice to align everything perfectly every time.

The only problem I had when I first went to this system, was forgetting to set the kisser correctly (which messes you up vertically) or forgetting to put the pin right next to the string (which messes you up horizontally). You have to remember to do everything perfectly at the moment of truth and in all honestly it IS more to remember. The best cure for this is, of course, practice. I pretty much HAD to learn to shoot without a peep simply because I hardly ever see a deer until it is near dark.

Standing in the yard practicing, I can shoot well out to forty yards. I do, however shoot tighter groups at longer distances with a peep. Since I put a great deal of effort into getting very close to deer, most of my hunting shots are at fifteen to twenty yards and the kisser is plenty accurate for that range. If I were hunting out west and in the open with more light, I would be more inclined to use a large aperture peep. In the thicker woods around here, a peep will not allow you to shoot to the end of legal hunting time.

I wouldn' t even debate about whether a given person can shoot accurately with or without a given piece of equipment. Anyone ever hear of shooting barebow or instinctive? Try telling Byron Ferguson you need a peep sight to shoot accurately. I wonder what he would say?