JeffB

Heyya Keith- thanks for the kind words!

Ughhhh. Sorry to hear about the shoulder. Def take it easy and drop poundage once you feel up to shooting again. I told myself a few weeks ago there is no need to be killing myself with this anymore- despite the fact that I'm a pretty big guy and fairly stong. Drawing a bow should be easy, not testing your limits after a few shots. PLus a 60 pounder generates a hella lot of energy these days. So I got a 60 pounder. FWIW- I wouldn't say the Elite is "easy" to draw, just "easier" than the rest of the hybrids I shot (the AM35 was really close). Def smoother on the draw/easier to draw than the newer BTs I shot. I don't know about the 82nd- have not seen or drawn one before.

And speaking of an Elite update-while the speed is very respectable as is, after comparing some numbers with other GT500 owners I finally got some tech info about the cam timing at rest- the bow is quite a ways out- under-rotated. Methinks the chrono is gonna roll up some higher numbers next time (wanna put some more shots on the string and cables to settle 'em in first). Of course I'll re-measure draw length too.

Frank- take your time man, no worries

ampahunter

Crikey Jeff, I didn't want to hear this.. I wouldn't say the Elite is "easy" to draw, just "easier" than the rest of the hybrids I shot.
My 82nd has been turned down to 57# (60# limbs on her) here she smokes 354 grains/27.5" arrows @ 295fps, the fastest 57# bow I've owned...but I've paid the price. NeverthelessI hear ya on backing it off, but I was reallyreluctant doing this during the season as then it meant resighting the pins, fiddling with the tuning a tad, maybe even shifting my peep and resquaring my d-loop. Honestly The bow was too much on than to go start trouble in the prime of the season. Towards the end I reverted to the Guardian...then it seemed forever for the arrow to hit the target.
The reality is, it takes poundage to generate real speed...obviously I can't have my cake and eat it too.

Good luck tuning your baby...would respectfullyappreciate to hear howshe settles in after the run in.

JeffB

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Yeah poundage or draw length. Some guy over on the Elite Forum is shooting CT Rhinos in the 530 gr range at 300 FPS with a 32" draw on their 8" brace bow.

I ordered up a new custom string and cables from someone who was reccomended at AT and the Elite forums, so I'll just get the cams pretty close for now, and fine tune once I get the new stuff. sounds like I should pick up 5 or 6 FPS/ not a big deal, but.

When I think "easy" draw, I think Hoyt's original Command & Control Cams (from the early 90s), Hoyt's A(dvance) Cams from the late 90s, wheel type stuff. The Mathews MQ1, Q2, BT Freedom cam, or the king of smooth and easy: Oneida AeroForce.

None of the current cams I tried are "easy", IMO- they are all "hard cams"- The Hoyts & Elite's draw more like the Darton CPS, peaks early and smoothly, lets off smoothly( sometimes late in the draw cycle, but still smoothly). Most of the other bows I tried last week just built up continously-peaking late and then slamming abruptly over near the wall-it was very...machine like? Kinda like manually cocking a crossbow.

It was very disappointing to me. I suppose if I had not been absent for a few years I would have gradually gotten used to it - and this may annoy or upset some of my former colleagues (I apologize in advance if it does guys) but I was really shocked at the new BTs with CP risers. Truly disappointed. I did NOT expect that kind of draw AT ALL . Before I was with BT, and when I was on the staff, a common criticism people were voicing (including myself) was "the speed is awesome, but smooth the cams out and get the noise down and you guys will really take off" (along with more aesthetically appealing machine work)- and they got as little better each year and in 2004 they REALLY got it right. AFAIC, now they are back to square one with the draw cycles!!!?????[:'(] Makes no sense to me , but they are doing well so who am I to to question it? I

They aren't the only ones though- The newer Mathews were pretty dissapointing- far cry from the old Outback, legacy and Q series. The PSE X-force and Xforce SS? Talk about marketing hype-I was totally sucker-punched there

I've rambled enough.

ILLUSION HUNTER

Jeff, I was wondering if you shot the Browning Illusion bow, and what you thought. I'm a Browning guy, but atmittedly I have not shot alot of other bows, and I was wondering what you thought of it compaired to some others.

ampahunter

I quite agree with you regarding the smooth draw cycles on the Hoyt and Darton bows. Champion also used the CPS 1-1/2 cams.
I did not find the BT CP riser reference to the Guardian too bad, but the following year the General in my view was a step back.Then I switched to the 82nd, honestlythe speed wastruly amazing for my DL, but that's about it. I did not find the bow quiet, for the string supressor was mounted in a bad place. Stringvibrations even loosened parts of the rest and vane clearences was but a hair.
As for the draw cycles, I think I have said enough.
Hopefully we can go back to the times when the DC were 'easy' and not have to lock our jaws and shake our brain to get the darnstring back.

JeffB

I did shoot one of the Browning single cam bows- I don't remember the model name, sorry- It had a fairly high brace - I'd say around 7.5" or more, and it was pretty short and light. It was a little shocky and jumpy despite vibration damper stuff everywhere (even around the limb pocket), but was pretty quiet and had a nice valley. I think it was a low to mid priced bow, so I don't think it was really fair to compare to the higher end bows for feel/speed. I thought it was well put together-seemed tight. Brownings are made by PSE, so it's obviously a good quality bow. Were my budget less than it ended up being, I think it would have been a contender.

JeffB

I had one of these back in the day- Golden Eagle Evolution-1994 or so- 80% letoff energy wheels, and the 70 pounders were so easy I bought a 80 pounder (peaked at about 84 pounds, IIRC). At the shop I worked at these things FLEW off the shelves and they did at other shops in the area too. People loved the smooth/easy draw, the "new" Advantage Camo and it was (like most Golden Eagles) really quiet. It was one of if not THE best Golden Eagle designs ever,and basically their "last hurrah". It was pretty advanced for a cast riser bow with the cutouts, heavy reflex, light mass weight,and adjustable grip. The model with the hatchet cams, full synthetic harness/string and wood grip (Ultra Evolution) was a nice shooter too. They never had another big seller like this one.

muzzyman88

JeffB, thats what I like about you. You're honest and completely unbiased when it comes to giving your opinion on bows. We get too many people here voicing an opinion on a certain bow that are on staff for a company, or have another hidden agenda. Nothing wrong with liking what you like, but its nice to read from someone who couldn't care less about the brand of product and give an honest opinion.

Keep it up buddy!

JeffB

We all know about opinions [8D] (where's the stinky butt smiley?[:'(]) Some guys probably think I'm totally off my rocker (and I just may be) .

I would like to re-iterate that I was as totally enamored of the feel of BTs at the shot and the machining as I was totally dissapointed in the draw cycles. So it's not like I think they are horrid pieces of crap now Sometime in the past few years they went in a different direction than I like/would like/would have gone myself. Happens all the time with a great many things in life, not just archery- you adapt and move on to new things that work best for you

ILLUSION HUNTER

Sounds like The Verado from Browning, I think that it has a 7 & 5/8 brace height. It's one of their lower end bows, at least as far as price goes. I wish someone else here shot the Illusion. I love it, but not knowing how many other bows shoot myself it's hard for me to know if it stacks up to some of these other bows. I guess it is not that important as long as I'm happy with it, but I sometimes wonder for the price if I should of went with a different bow.
If you ever shoot one you'll have to let me know what you think.