"Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

So, I had a supposed "pro" shooter, who works at our archery shop, tell me that, basically my entire setup was crap.

He didn't like my single pin sight, my Whisker Biscuit, my string dampeners, my d-loop and nock sets (tied in exactly as posted on this forum), my Diamond Marquis (his Hoyt Katera is sooo much faster)...I thinkhe eveninsulted my mother somewhere in the mix, and he stated that Blazers do not work and are simply a marketing ploy, especially straight fletched like mine are.

I personally have had great success with the Blazers. I understand that a helical will stabilize an arrow more quickly, especially with a broadhead, because of the spin, but a fletching with a helical through a WB is not the greatest thing. To my thinking, any spin caused by the helical would be stopped or at least severely lessened by passing through a WB's bristles. Also, energy would be lost because of the increased fletching contact, as opposed to a straight fletch passing through the bristles with minimal contact.

Am Imistaken in my analysis, or am I just aggrevated by someone, pro or not, who just insulted everything about my setup?

Thanks,
Andrew

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

Take what the so called "Pro" said with a grain of salt;)

Just say "hmmmm ok whatever" and walk away:):D

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

I shoot my blazers through a WB and use a right helical. The benefit of helical fletched arrows is the fact that it promotes spin, as you pointed out. However, the cause of the spin is the friction w/ the air after the arrow is released. The 5 to 6 inches between string and restwon't reduce the amount of spin you get. I also feel that the helical doesn't cause enough extra friction w/ the WB to be detrimental to the shot. Blazers are only 2" long and the helical w/ 2" worth of vane to work with is very slight. I can understand where your coming from though.

As for the other stuff.... That's all personal preference. If you're comfortable with your setup and you're shooting it well, then you don't need to change anything. Always remember, the guy behind the counter gets paid when you buy something.

Unless they point out specific safety issues w/ your bow, "take it with a grain of salt" like Kanga said.

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

LMAO at the pro!!:D LOL I don't see anything wrong with your setup, yes, I prefer drop away but there is nothing wrong with the WB. LOL

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

Oh boy....He should shut his mouth. But, of course, he can't!

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

The way I look at it is this...you are the one shooting the bow as it is setup. Does the arrow fly true and hit it's mark when you release it? That is the only thing that matters. It's the old Chevy vs Ford vs Dodge argument. Who gives two cow-pies what some hack thinks about your rigging! Go shoot yourself a big one and bring it in and tell him what you think of his opinion!

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

heh...he's a pro. he probably don't like blazers because they won't send him free ones.

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

I'd tell that "pro" to stick it where the sun don't shine. What a jerk[>:]

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

Maybe he is just a, "PRO" at running his mouth. If your setup is laying the smack down on deer, continue to use it.

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

Im guessing no one buys anything much from that place either....


some just arent blessed with any sense.. he just wanted you to change your setup and spend more cash at his place

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

He may know what he's talking about. You can take it or leave it, but will you learn anything? I try and not let my emotions get in the way of learning. If illumination is your goal you wont either.

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

Thanks for the input guys. I am definately still learning my way around a bow.

StraightArrow, thanks for the lesson. That does make sense. I guess my next question would be: With the slight helical Blazers provide, does it matter that much?

I am shooting the new Grizz Tricks this year and am really ready to get into the field. Right now, they shoot 1 1/2" to 2" lower than my field tips. Definately within the kill zone. Would a helical help them group with the field tips?

Andrew

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

A slight offset is all you need with the Blazers. I can't recall what Bohning actually calls for, but their "blazer" fletcher actually has the offset set into it so you don't have to adjust the thing. I just use a straight clamp, then offset the fletcher itself slightly on my old Grayling fletchers.

What kind of arrows you using? It's tough to get a good helical on a thin shaft like the Axis. A slight offset with a straight clamp is much easier to glue than a helical.

As long as your shooting well, I'd leave it be. You may actually slow your arrow down with more helical on your vanes, and shoot lower. Shoot it through paper with a field point to make sure your nock height is adjusted properly, if its out, that could be your 2" difference with the broadhead.


--------so I have to edit this. Not 5 seconds after I typed my above reply, I was looking on archery.com and saw that bohning is making a new fletching jig to put helical on the 2" Blazers. So maybe you can invest in one of those XXL ? Neat product, I may try me one of them.

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

I also had a "pro" make a comment about my setup. " it couldnt be paper tuned and is just not a quality bow. I seen him at a 3D shoot and me and my untunable bow kicked his a$$! He ws trying to get you to buy and inflating his ego. I bet it is at one of those large retail chains isnt it?

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

Khawk, actually it is just a local shop. The pro says he does it for a hobby. There is no doubt the guy knows more about bows than I do, but I have shot my blazers out to 50 yards accurately with fp's, not broadheads, but should be able to do the same. I got the feeling that he was just old school and didn't like the new technology.

He says he won third place at the "Triple Crown" (supposedly the biggest archery tournament there is) a few years ago. I don't have any reason to doubt him, but when someone just goes off on your setup, it is a little irritating.

Yes, nodog, enlightenment is definately a goal, and I didn't let him know I was put off by his comments. However, if someone who claims to know "everything" about a subject is unwilling to learn or give new technology a chance, how much do you listen to them before you go elsewhere to learn?

Andrew

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

MikeyS, thanks for the heads up on the new fletcher. I have been wanting to get into fletching for some time, but just haven't. Maybe I will check on it again. I will be shooting the Carbon Express Maximas this year,hopefully they will hold the Blazers decently.

Andrew

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

It doesn't take much. Like Mikey S. said, even a little offset will work as well. My problem w/ offset is that I can't seem to get enough fletching contact w/ the arrow. I use a Bitzenburger jig and for some reason I'm able to get better fletching contact w/ the helical than I am offset.

Whether you go w/ offset or helical, your groups should be tighter, especially if you're shooting a fixed blade.

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

Blazers....at 60 yards. One group with field points, one with Slick Tricks
(I'm not shooting broahheads at the same spot)
Nothing wrong with Blazers ;)
I prefer a drop away with a string loop.

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

Archery pros are like golf pros in shops! If they are pro's why are they in the SHOP and not out on tour?Definition of EXpert...drip under pressure.:DGo shoot what you got and be confident!

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

Not sure about the rest of your setup, but I have to agree on the blazers being a waste. If I shot a biscuit, I would shoot them because they are durable. But I won't shoot a whisker, and therefore won't waste my time with blazers. I have tried them, and are really no better than .4" 4" duravanes. In fact, I find with alot of people they cause issues with drop aways.

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

We have a "pro shop" like that around here. I will NOT name the place but they do sell just one line of bow. I walk in there with my Hoyt (he used to be a Hoyt dealer) and he tells me what crap it is and I should switch to what he carries now. His is "SOOO much better". The arrows I use he started me on but he doesn't carry them anymore so they are crap and I should buy what he carries nowbecause "they are SOOO much better". Hesells below the set prices from the companies and that is how hestays in business because everyone from many miles comes to him for that brand. It seems to work until they catch up with him and take away his dealer license. Then it starts again.

So remember this "pro" is paid to push what he is given for free. This guy might have sold blazers for a while but someone else offered him more money to push theirs so now blazers are junk. Like many others have said use what works foryou and don't worry about the "pros". They'llbe switching to something elsesoon.

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

Sorry to hear all the issues with so called "Pros".

I got asked to help during a real booming week last week at one of our local shops. Here is a synopsis of the day.

First thing a guy comes in wanting a a new string on his hoyt. He didn't need a string at all. Did I put one on, YEP. He asked for one because he felt it was time for a new one, his was 5yrs old. I rigged it up, asked if he had seen the newest options in peeps. We put in a Split'r. Took it upstairs and tuned it and told him to bring it back in a couple weeks (before our season) and have it all checked for stretch.

Next woman with a list and a checkbook. We filled the list. I didn't agree with the choice of sights for the money but her husband sent her, she had a list he compiled. Confusing her and possibly sending her home with something else would have caused a fight for her and loss of trust in the shop.

Next Guy with a bow he knew had a higher holding wt. than advertised. The new BowTec was holding way more than his old One Cam HavocTec. WRONG> we put it on a scale 86% letoff. Explained the difference in the wall and that his draw length was a tad shorter as well as the smoothness of the HavocTec cam. We adjusted his draw length and he was happy. No charge.

Next, Guy with a bow that looked like he used it for a cane more than a bow. It was ratted out. The cam had burrs all over it and had cut the string. Got out the files and emmory cloth. New cables and a touch of flat black paint and he was good to go.

Next, Guy couldn't figure out how to attach the quiver or why his arrows were so far to the left on his newBIGSPORTMARTbow he bought that AM. I KID YOU NOT...the rest and quiver bracket were on the INSIDE of the riser. "Dang quiver was in front of the sight" when he put it on. Straightened his stuff out and charged him for the service.

Next Same BigSportStore Crossbow. A cheapy RC150 that sent its one and only shot straight in the air. He said it was put together when he got it.....the cables were ON TOP of the rail. I called them up and reminded them of the boo boo. (didn't tell them about the other bow) and its danger. Charged him for the service.

Fletched a bunch of arrows with short quickspins which is the shops Fletch of choice.

Sold a bunch of arrows and helped guy get his Girlfriend set up with a new Parker Challenger. She went from the sight in targets to the TechnoHunt and SMOKED IT! We got a new gal in the woods!!!

Other odds and ends and I LOVED EVERY SECOND OF IT> Archery has some great folks but yes there are some ButtHeads out there too.

Hope you don't mind my listing of the day's events, just thought you might like it.

Dryridge.

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

Pro???? LMAO.

Thats why I quit listing to the "pros" about 20 years ago. They are out to help a particular company sale products. Also, I found some of the "Pros" had less experience and knowledge than I.

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

Dryridge,
I amsure a day in an archery shop can be very interesting. Sounds like you had tons of fun. I understand that most shops push one type of bow or product over the others, that is why when I bought my bow, I went to a shop that carried a lot of different products. It carried BowTech, Matthews, Hoyt, Browning, and some others. The owner is a super nice guy who set up any bow I wanted to shoot, and I shot them all...no problem. He discussed the pros and cons of each bow and let me make my own decision. I went with the Marquis. Ijust liked the feel of it over the others, including the Drenaline, Katera, and General. Personal preference, all were great bows. That's the kind of shop that does the Archery Community credit. Too bad its 8 1/2 hours away.

Burnie,
I wish I could say the same about my experience. I'm still new to all this (only a few years in) and I have a lot to learn.

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

Im not a pro i just started with bow stuff. i did fo research when someone said use blazers. on my easton axis arrows i shot 3 with long flech and than i shot blazers the results were the long shot at 250fps than the blazer shot at 270fps. im not sure if everyone get the same results but thats how i broke it down

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

Can't say specifically but there is something, even if you come to the conclusion your making.

Is he a pro or not? If you don't listen, are you any different than him. So you listen and try what he says and it's a load of crap, you learned something.:D Try enough things and you'll comer to the conclusion that there are several factors that go into shooting well. They all must add up to X and it doesn't matter how it does as long as it does. His does and yours does, there just different.

Once there you think, they all add up to X but what if they were all equal, what if one wasn't making up for the other. That's a whole different level, one that the "pro" will never reach and neither will you if you become what you dislike, that guy.

Not putting you down just verbalizing a conversatrion I've had with myself when confronted with people that rub me the wrong way.

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

My small Blazers on my XT Hunters are MUCH better than my old 4" Quikspins. Faster and tighter, w/o a doubt. I use a Trophy Ridge Drop Zone rest.

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

I can believe that, that's one reason I stay away from prop shops. I have as much fun listening to their advise as I do watching a rookie try to load a boat.... You might tell him that stuff he's smoking is illegal.

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: The Rev

I have as much fun listening to their advise as I do watching a rookie try to load a boat....



Don't you let your son load the boat to save yourself some embarassment?:D

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

Nodog, I appreciate the sentiments and have been considering what the guy said. In fact, I am considering buyng a new sight b/c of his comments. I see the merit of the fixed pins vs. a single pin sight. I do try to learn from everyone, but sometimes they are just annoying.

Rev, what's so funny about what you said, is the guy will tell you he's loaded up on prescription pain killers...not illegal but same effects. LOL!!!

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

I'll have to respectfully disagree. I've gotten better arrow flight w/ FP's and BH's with BLAZERS than anything else I've tried, 4" duravanes straight, offset, helical, 4" quickspins, and blazers all in my arrow collection right now, and the BLAZERS shoot the best, then the "Quickspins," followed by the Helical Duravanes, and not much difference between the last 2. What I like about the blazers for me is that I can let that arrow ride the drop-away until the VERY last instant, where with 4" Duravanes, I had to time it to drop a little earlier.

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

For hunting,my personal belief is that nothing beats a 4" feather.I also don't like the WB,so feathers are the perfect choice for me.To be honest,feathers tune better out of a WB but replacing them every other day would be a pain in the you know what so Blazers are probably the best way to go.

My fealing is they are way too stiff which will result in some loss of forgiveness at some point.How many times have you seen on here complaints about hitting the cables or rest or whatever else with them?

I did some extensive penetration test a while back and for me,I found my fletching choice made the biggest difference if my arrow came completely out the other side or not.Many times the fletching hung up when feathers blasted right through.Both would result in dead,easy to find deer but having the arrow laying on the ground means I get to reuse my arrow and not have the deer break it.:eek: Blazers are taller and stiffer than regular vanes(I was using low profile 3" vanes)so they would probably hang up more but they were not even available when I tested.


So I basically agree with the "pro" but that doesn't mean he is right,or that I am.BUT,in no way do I feel Blazers or the WB won't work,but in both cases,IMO,they are both overhyped.But so are fall aways.;)


He needs to help you and provide you with the service you ask for,if his opinion is asked for,then he can give it,without being condecending.

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

I was always a 4" vane guy when it came to hunting setups. Shot that from the time I was 13, till I was 30. Once in awhile I'd get a bug up my butt to shoot feathers, but got tired or re-fletching arrows. A few years ago I tried the Blazers. Thought they did well, and then I tried the Quikspin speed hunters. They shot just at well, but were rather noisy, and pricey, and that led me back to the Blazers.

Now this year, the vane that has me turned on is the AAE Max Hunter. They are a much softer vane, very durable material though, as I've used their 4" vanes for years and years. But that little Max Hunter, a shield cut vane, same height as the Blazer, is consistenly shooting tighter groups for me out to 45 yards over my Blazers. They are shooting a touch lower, but I don't care about that. I'll take the accuracy and consistency. They are made with a nicer base to the vane too, and fletch a lot nicer for me. I haven't put them through a good broadheadsession yet, but the few arrows I fired looked to be good. I'll know more in a few days. Maybe I'll put up a review of them. I haven't heard to much of them on here, if at all. But the dudes on AT seem to love 'em.

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

Interesting. Maybe it's because we're Hoyt guys :)...........I always thought the same thing, as I usually find myself slapping on my trusty Bodoodle Pro Lite for hunting season to replacewhatever fall away I've been toying with all summer.

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

That is one of the best rest ever,I am currently using the Spot Hogg Whammy because it has the advantages of a drop away,fletching clearance for small diameter arrows and the tunability/shootability of a prong style rest.

I like a few fallaways,but they are all overhyped,mostly because of the marketing.;)

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

I suggest possibly a tune issue if your seeing a huge flight difference. Technically, a perfect form, you wouldn't even need vanes.

4-5" feathers would blow any of them away.

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

I'm shooting fixed blade heads accurately out to 60 yards (and probably farther but don't have the room to try) with helical Blazers through my Whisker Bisquit but what the Hell do I know? I've never taken 3rd at a Triple Crown.[&:]

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

BC,
It's slight, but out at 50yds or so, it's a bit more extreme, groups go from 4.5-5.5" to 6-7.5" or so. But it's enough that I'll stick with my Blazers.

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

That could be anything, could be spine, clearance. Doesn't explain the whole story. I have yet to see too many field archers using blazers.

No doubt, they work. But nothing extordinary.

RE: "Pro" said: "Blazers a waste of time." True???
 

I'll give that an Amen. The Lord designed a feather to stabilize a 20# turkey in flight.... I think it can handle a 125gr broadhead.

That said though, even though a feather might do the best job of stabilization over all.... that doesn't necessarily mean its the perfect fletch for everyone.

"Blazers" proper, I've been using and fletching extensively for the last couple of years... this year, I've discovered NAP twisters... and I frankly like them a whole heck of a lot better. I think their quality control is better. I don't think I've ever bought a pack of blazers that was exactly the same, if I was say buying them over a 4 month period. Some have primer, some are harder, some softer, some have that little ditch in the bottom now... most of them are not cut off squarely in the front....

When a fix, such as a taller, stiffer, fletch, becomes a problem, such as creating contact, then it certainly isn't a solution anymore. I think its barking up the right tree... lighter, tougher, taller.... but like with everything else there is a law of diminsihing returns.

I'd shoot feathers still myself if they weren't so dang expensive. The noise in flight is probably the next biggest concern, followed by durability.