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i hate carbon arrows
I've tried them for two years now and still think it stinks that you cant tune your broadheads on them.
Alum. you use hot melt and you can get the broadheads perfect. But i do like the lighter weight. and the fly fine. I've seen the little dog bone thing from G5 that is suppose to true the insert end. Do they work. How can you get the inserts out of carbon shafts. Reglue with slow epoxy? |
RE: i hate carbon arrows
Just a suggestion but the FMJ's by Easton self align the broadheads to the shaft and are aluminum and carbon so you get the best of both worlds with great broadhead flight.
Just some food for thought. never used the product your asking about so I can't help there.Sorry. |
RE: i hate carbon arrows
If you find carbons frustrating, then you should stick with aluminums. Both have disadvantages and advantages.
You can get a insert out of a carbon by using the "jack-hammer" method with a drill bit. You choose the largest bit that will fit into the shaft and still move freely inside of it. Then you sling the arrow in a downward motion over and over until the bit slams the insert out of the shaft. You should do this in an area where you can control the direction of where the bit and insert come out as they can come out rather suddenly. You should do this rather than resorting to applying heat to carbon as heat can ruin the resins that bind the carbon fibers together. I assume you are referring to indexing the heads on the arrow so they spin test properly. If you face the arrow first with the carbon side of the ASD and then face the insert with the aluminum side of the ASD, your head should spin fine unless you have inferior heads. |
RE: i hate carbon arrows
ORIGINAL: SS2000 How can you get the inserts out of carbon shafts. I think most folks have abandoned the conceptof tuning broadheads to alignment with fletchings. However, a slow drying epoxy should allow you to do this with carbon shafts. Welcome to the forums. You'll also find plenty of guys on here who still shoot aluminum for their penetration and straightness. |
RE: i hate carbon arrows
ORIGINAL: SS2000 I've tried them for two years now and still think it stinks that you cant tune your broadheads on them. Alum. you use hot melt and you can get the broadheads perfect. But i do like the lighter weight. and the fly fine. I've seen the little dog bone thing from G5 that is suppose to true the insert end. Do they work. How can you get the inserts out of carbon shafts. Reglue with slow epoxy? That "little dog bone thing" is the ASD (arrow squaring device) from G5. Yes, they work very well. I understand what you mean about the hot melt glue though.....And in that aspect you're spot on. BUT, instead of using super glue to glue in your inserts.......Why couldn't you use 2 part epoxy, screw your broadheads into the inserts, and tune them that way. W/ the epoxy, you've got some time before it sets so you could spin your inserts to get the wobble out of the broadhead....Just a thought. |
RE: i hate carbon arrows
Hey i like the jack hammer idea. I will try that. And the tuning i was refering to was to get them spining true. I dont buy the fletch alignment stuff? The insert were glued in at the archery shop,didnt know they would be so hit and miss.
On the FMJ, i had thought about that, but dont know anyone who has them. Do you think i could use hot melt on them? That would be great. Has anyone tried this? And thank for the replies. Steve |
RE: i hate carbon arrows
FMJ's are carbon core w/ aluminum wrap......The Easton ACC is what you would need to use hot melt, they are aluminum core w/ carbon shell.
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RE: i hate carbon arrows
If you are having problems with getting broadheads to spin on carbon arrows then it is likely that your arrows are not cut suare to begin with or the person installing the inserts didn't seat them good and tight against the carbon. Every now and then you get a bad one but usually you can simply try another broadhead on that shaft and have it spin true.
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RE: i hate carbon arrows
If ya hate em, the don't use em..:D.. I wouldn't use anything thing else myself. Don't blame the arrow, blame either the equipment or lack of knowledge about tuning.
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RE: i hate carbon arrows
If you're having problems with your Carbon arrows, you have one of the following problems....
1. You're using CHEAP arrows. (If you're shooting something .003 or better, you SHOULD be ok here.) 2. You're using arrows that weren't cut properly or squared right. (If you're arrows were cut by someone who KNOWS what they're doing and squared, again, you should be ok here.) 3. You're using arrows that are way off on spine. (Post up your set-up, bow, draw wt. and length, arrows, size/spine of the arrows, components on the arrows, tip wt.) 4. Your BH's aren't spinning true. (Have you spin-tested your arrows??? Do you have a spin-tester or just use your finger??? ) 5. You're shooting a BH that just don't match up well with your set-up. (What BH are you shooting??? Some BH's just are TOUGH to tune. ST's are not one of them. ) 6. You need help getting to the bottom of the problem because you don't really know enough to solve it yourself. (You're in the right place to find help. Don't be offended, we CAN likely help you NOT HATE your Carbon Arrows. ) |
RE: i hate carbon arrows
ORIGINAL: OHbowhntr If you're having problems with your Carbon arrows, you have one of the following problems.... 1. You're using CHEAP arrows. (If you're shooting something .003 or better, you SHOULD be ok here.) 2. You're using arrows that weren't cut properly or squared right. (If you're arrows were cut by someone who KNOWS what they're doing and squared, again, you should be ok here.) 3. You're using arrows that are way off on spine. (Post up your set-up, bow, draw wt. and length, arrows, size/spine of the arrows, components on the arrows, tip wt.) 4. Your BH's aren't spinning true. (Have you spin-tested your arrows??? Do you have a spin-tester or just use your finger??? ) 5. You're shooting a BH that just don't match up well with your set-up. (What BH are you shooting??? Some BH's just are TOUGH to tune. ST's are not one of them. ) 6. You need help getting to the bottom of the problem because you don't really know enough to solve it yourself. (You're in the right place to find help. Don't be offended, we CAN likely help you NOT HATE your Carbon Arrows. ) Academy used to sell a trash arrow for 35 Dollars a dozen and friend of mine bought some because he never used carbon. They were pure trash, they didn't even have the spine on them, some sort of Korean crap. I don't think they sell them any more. With carbon you pretty much get what you pay for. |
RE: i hate carbon arrows
Hi all,
if you go back and read the first post, i said noting about flight. Spining truly is what i said. The arrows are carbon express max. hunters, the spine is perfect, the broadheads are muzzys, one guy hit it on the head. The shafts were cut alittle off sq. this was not done by me. And it seams most of you have no idea what iam talking about with the alum. shafts and hot melt. Prob. to young. You put your insert in with a glue called hot melt. Its a solid stick you heat with a candle or some type of flame. Heat it up and smear some on your insert and just a little in your shaft. Put it on a field point and reheat. Then slide it into your shaft. let it cool. If the broadhead is not SPINing true on the shaft, heat it up a little till it will rotate and keep doing this till you get it to spin Perfect. This was not ment to be a SA session, just wondering if anyone who care about perfect alignment between arrow and broadhead had found any simple tricks for carbons. I do like them for the lack of weight and durabiliy. Some of you are making way to much of this. So dont get pissed at my reply, i do like this forum, I did learn about the jackhammer tech. here. By the way, it worked perfect on an old gold tip arrow, no luck on the C.E. yet. Thanks , Steve |
RE: i hate carbon arrows
I to use the "jack hammer" method. I've found that a 7/32" drill bit works well with Carbon Express Terminator Lites. I would like, however, to suggest maybe a brass rod of a similar diameter, the drill bit could scar the inside of the arrow.
As for the G5 ASD, a must for anyone that shoots arrows, aluminum or carbon. |
RE: i hate carbon arrows
Friend of mine has sold 1000's of doz's of carbon arrows.
He uses low temp hot melt only and never has a problem. Just clean insude of shaft and the insert well to degrease. Use LOW heat - it does not take much. Steve |
RE: i hate carbon arrows
Hmmm... I used to shoot Easton XX75 2315's for years and years out of an old PSE bow (old school, round wheel dual cam, tear drop cables, etc...). Everything worked perfectly, and was a tried and true classic setup. ....a little outdated, and slow as molasses, but it was cool.
Now, when I got my new bow, I made the grand leap of faith to carbon (Beman ICS Hunter 340's) and can't see myself switching back to aluminum any time soon. I had a very reputable bow shop set me up,tune my bow, and even gave me some tips with my form. My '06 Reflex Highlander is set at a 29" draw and is at my max comfort level (68#). With a 100gr tip, I get the best of both worlds, regarding arrow flight, speed, and K/E. |
RE: i hate carbon arrows
Hey Steve, thanks for the info. that sound good. I had some low temp hot melt back when. I will go look for it now. Thanks for sharing the info. Sure miss them good old days. Killed lots of deer with slow bows and alum. arrows.
Thanks again. Steve |
RE: i hate carbon arrows
I personally use hotmelt glue on carbons if use them. I still like aluminum arrows though. The hotmelt glue works fine for what I do, but I would do it if you shoot 3-D because you might eventually lose an insert. I use a bag target most of the time though so it's not an issue.
Paul |
RE: i hate carbon arrows
ORIGINAL: SS2000 Hi all, if you go back and read the first post, i said noting about flight. Spining truly is what i said. The arrows are carbon express max. hunters, the spine is perfect, the broadheads are muzzys, one guy hit it on the head. The shafts were cut alittle off sq. this was not done by me. And it seams most of you have no idea what iam talking about with the alum. shafts and hot melt. Prob. to young. You put your insert in with a glue called hot melt. Its a solid stick you heat with a candle or some type of flame. Heat it up and smear some on your insert and just a little in your shaft. Put it on a field point and reheat. Then slide it into your shaft. let it cool. If the broadhead is not SPINing true on the shaft, heat it up a little till it will rotate and keep doing this till you get it to spin Perfect. This was not ment to be a SA session, just wondering if anyone who care about perfect alignment between arrow and broadhead had found any simple tricks for carbons. I do like them for the lack of weight and durabiliy. Some of you are making way to much of this. So dont get pissed at my reply, i do like this forum, I did learn about the jackhammer tech. here. By the way, it worked perfect on an old gold tip arrow, no luck on the C.E. yet. Thanks , Steve Here's my take, doesn't matter if the shaft is square or not, there's no way the insert can go in not square unless it's loose in the shaft and I havent found any (carbons) that were, all fit pretty tight even before the glue. It's not like your cross threading them in there. Just my take on it and there could be cases were it matters, I've never seen it and spinning it if it is out of square wont make it square. If anything I'd say a bad insert or head. Then again, I've never cut one out of square orever had one not spin true unless the ferrul was bent. Most everybody round here knows what hot melt is and how to use it. CE's fly great, I hate the finish. Reminds me too much of the noise aluminums make when drawn.:D Don't care for fmj's and don't see how one of them, if they are cutout ofsquare wouldn't have the same problem even worse if it is an issue, the ferrul doesn't fit as tight as the insert. Don't take the place to seriously, it'll eat you up and no body else really cares, were all taking ourselves to seriously to pay much attention to you.:D |
RE: i hate carbon arrows
ORIGINAL: nodog Here's my take, doesn't matter if the shaft is square or not, there's no way the insert can go in not square unless it's loose in the shaft and I havent found any (carbons) that were, all fit pretty tight even before the glue. It's not like your cross threading them in there. Just my take on it and there could be cases were it matters, I've never seen it and spinning it if it is out of square wont make it square. If anything I'd say a bad insert or head. Then again, I've never cut one out of square orever had one not spin true unless the ferrul was bent. Most everybody round here knows what hot melt is and how to use it. CE's fly great, I hate the finish. Reminds me too much of the noise aluminums make when drawn.:D Don't care for fmj's and don't see how one of them, if they are cutout ofsquare wouldn't have the same problem even worse if it is an issue, the ferrul doesn't fit as tight as the insert. Don't take the place to seriously, it'll eat you up and no body else really cares, were all taking ourselves to seriously to pay much attention to you.:D The broadhead has a lot to do with it as well. Muzzy's are notoriously picky, thanks largely to that big heavy trocar tip on the end. If you get a little bit of wobble when you spin test, that wobble is going to mess with your arrow flight, because that heavy tip is where a fair bit of your weight is. The ASD certainly does help... I use it on my arrows before I glue in the inserts, and then again on the face of the insert itself.... although now that I'm shooting HIT inserts.. its kind of a moot point.... if you get wobble with a HIT insert then either your arrow is crooked, or your broadhead is crooked. |
RE: i hate carbon arrows
A low temp hotmelt works on carbon when done correctly but it isn't necessary on the FMJ's.They align perfectly because the broadhead shaft goes up inside the arrow,so it has to align to the arrow.
I am a hotmelt guy myself but I used the supplied epoxy on the FMJ's and the broadheads spin perfect,with no hassle.I can almost guarantee if you get the proper spine,you will like them.;) |
RE: i hate carbon arrows
[8D][:'(], :D:D:D. Alum. on the way!
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RE: i hate carbon arrows
Have fun bending them after you get them all nice and tuned....I was almost ready to go back to alums but a friend of mine just did go back to them and realized why he left. He has out of twelve left and its not like he misses.....the facts are that alums bend and carbons don't...I will work with the carbons everytime.
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RE: i hate carbon arrows
Aluminums aren't bad or evil. We shouldn't criticize someone for wanting to use them or feeling more comfortable with them. I killed I don't know how many critters with them. Where in the hell would we be right now without the advent of aluminum arrows. I'll tell ya; using wood. SS2000 has obviously used them for quite some time successfully, and he is going to continue to be successful with them.
SS2000, I think you've just had a bad experience with some pre-made arrows. If you ever feel like giving carbons a try again, just order the shafts without inserts installed (you can have them fletched if you like) and then give me a PM. We'll get those things spinning true without a problem through PM's. |
RE: i hate carbon arrows
ORIGINAL: Snood Slapper Aluminums aren't bad or evil. We shouldn't criticize someone for wanting to use them or feeling more comfortable with them. I killed I don't know how many critters with them. Where in the hell would we be right now without the advent of aluminum arrows. I'll tell ya; using wood. SS2000 has obviously used them for quite some time successfully, and he is going to continue to be successful with them. SS2000, I think you've just had a bad experience with some pre-made arrows. If you ever feel like giving carbons a try again, just order the shafts without inserts installed (you can have them fletched if you like) and then give me a PM. We'll get those things spinning true without a problem through PM's. You know, i thought about saying sorry or something like that, being a newby to this site. But then after some thought, i said no,thats crazy. Where in the world the guy that said i came on a little strong got that from i have no idea. Maybe he makes carbon arrows and i really scared him???? Thats part of why i've read the posts far more than ive commented or asked a question on here. These guys get little stars under there name and they think what they say is the gospel. Now i know this will prob. get a long post back about why i have the problem, but come on i ask about getting your broad head true, inline with your arrows. Then i get told i probably have " cheep arrows, not spined correctly, dont know how to spin them, probably do it on my fingers, and over all just dont know what i am doing. And i came on alittle strong. Give me a break. Why do you think so many folks switched to mechanical broads, They dont have to do hardly any tuning at all. But i cant say this for sure as i have never used them either.I hate mechanical broads as well.Ha Ha Ha!!!! No i think some of you need to lighten up and read the original post before you go off chashing the wrong rabbit. And to all the folks who gave some real good suggestions, i think you and will probably will have to realy you for any more questions cuse these other guys will prob. never talk to me again. That is after they reply to this.Well thanks again for the good ideas, And hey i have 3 pages on this post now, little ol me. Whooed of ever thunk it.Hey Snood Slapper thanks, and the first deer i ever killed was with a port oxford cedar shaft. Thanks, Steve |
RE: i hate carbon arrows
I think most folks have abandoned the conceptof tuning broadheads to alignment with fletchings. Welcome to the forums SS2000! |
RE: i hate carbon arrows
ORIGINAL: Ben / PA Have fun bending them after you get them all nice and tuned....I was almost ready to go back to alums but a friend of mine just did go back to them and realized why he left. He has out of twelve left and its not like he misses.....the facts are that alums bend and carbons don't...I will work with the carbons everytime. I have also never seen picture of an aluminum arrow sticking out of someones hand because it exploded on release either. And you can straighten aluminum arrows if you want to, try that with a carbon. The truth is aluminum arrows are still the better technology as far as quality control and consistency for the price. Carbons are just lighter is all, which is what made them popular to begin with. Paul |
RE: i hate carbon arrows
ORIGINAL: SS2000 ORIGINAL: Snood Slapper Aluminums aren't bad or evil. We shouldn't criticize someone for wanting to use them or feeling more comfortable with them. I killed I don't know how many critters with them. Where in the hell would we be right now without the advent of aluminum arrows. I'll tell ya; using wood. SS2000 has obviously used them for quite some time successfully, and he is going to continue to be successful with them. SS2000, I think you've just had a bad experience with some pre-made arrows. If you ever feel like giving carbons a try again, just order the shafts without inserts installed (you can have them fletched if you like) and then give me a PM. We'll get those things spinning true without a problem through PM's. You know, i thought about saying sorry or something like that, being a newby to this site. But then after some thought, i said no,thats crazy. Where in the world the guy that said i came on a little strong got that from i have no idea. Maybe he makes carbon arrows and i really scared him???? Thats part of why i've read the posts far more than ive commented or asked a question on here. These guys get little stars under there name and they think what they say is the gospel. Now i know this will prob. get a long post back about why i have the problem, but come on i ask about getting your broad head true, inline with your arrows. Then i get told i probably have " cheep arrows, not spined correctly, dont know how to spin them, probably do it on my fingers, and over all just dont know what i am doing. And i came on alittle strong. Give me a break. Why do you think so many folks switched to mechanical broads, They dont have to do hardly any tuning at all. But i cant say this for sure as i have never used them either.I hate mechanical broads as well.Ha Ha Ha!!!! No i think some of you need to lighten up and read the original post before you go off chashing the wrong rabbit. And to all the folks who gave some real good suggestions, i think you and will probably will have to realy you for any more questions cuse these other guys will prob. never talk to me again. That is after they reply to this.Well thanks again for the good ideas, And hey i have 3 pages on this post now, little ol me. Whooed of ever thunk it.Hey Snood Slapper thanks, and the first deer i ever killed was with a port oxford cedar shaft. Thanks, Steve Just an fyi, the word "hate" is a stong word and causes others to come on strong, but like I said it don't matter to me. I don't make arrows, I'm a wood whisperer.:D later |
RE: i hate carbon arrows
ORIGINAL: The Rev If ya hate em, the don't use em..:D.. I wouldn't use anything thing else myself. Don't blame the arrow, blame either the equipment or lack of knowledge about tuning. |
RE: i hate carbon arrows
The truth is aluminum arrows are still the better technology as far as quality control and consistency for the price. Carbons are just lighter is all, which is what made them popular to begin with. |
RE: i hate carbon arrows
There are little like O rings that you can put between your broadhead and shaft. I find that they help make the broadhead spin true. I bought my at cabelas. I'm not sure if you can find them on line or not. I find that the use of the o ring and trying different broadheads on different shafts you can get it to work. I shoot muzzys also.
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