up hill shots 45 degrees or more?
 

I hunt in steep mountans and most of my shots are up or down hill. For shooting up hill I have to aim very high to hit the vitals. Is there a tree stand site that will work for up hill shots?

RE: up hill shots 45 degrees or more?
 

A sight will not help you, if you have to aim high on uphill shots it is because your form is going to pot as you raise your bow. Uphill shots are the same as down hill shots, the arrow will arc less, and will normally hit high, meaning you have to aim low. the speed of most modern bows negates almost all of this, and for the most part you can aim dead on.

If you are having problems like you stated it is most likely form related.

RE: up hill shots 45 degrees or more?
 

Tomorrow morning I am ordering a No Peep for my bow. THe link below will take you to the page that describes this unit. But it also covers form problems and shooting high ot low on uphill or downhill shots. I have not studied it yet bit it makes sense anf it is worth your reading.

http://www.timberline-archery.com/default1.asp

RE: up hill shots 45 degrees or more?
 

Rack-attack and Dick are right, you' ll hit high on uphill and downhill shots, both. The NoPeep is awesome. I put one on last week and love it. Get it straight from Timberline, so you know that you have the 2003 version.
Trebark

RE: up hill shots 45 degrees or more?
 

You aim at the same point of aim, basicaly whether uphill or downhill. The issue is basicaly horizontal distance. So 144 yards uphill at 45 degrees is only 100 yards along the ground, and you would use your 100 yd pin, if you had one.

A 45 deg shot uphill will almost always screw up some other aspect of your form, and so you may loose velocity or not find yourself shooting through the peep square, or a bunch of things.

Finding the base of the triangle is usualy easy in a forest, for instance if a deer is standing next to a tree you can look at that tree at the same level you are on a stand, or a hillside, and take that straight distance. It isn' t as easy always on a bare hillside.

I had a nopeep for a while a few years ago, I understand how they help with hand torque, or at least reveal it, but what do they do to improve uphill downhill. It might help with peep not centered, though not necesarily since basicaly the NP just aligns the riser, not the string, so the back of your arrow could be anywhere.

RE: up hill shots 45 degrees or more?
 

Ossage is right. I dont remember where I read this in the past, but " always use the true horizontal distance." I have used this for many years and it has proved to be very accurate.
__
ll
ll <--- tree stand or up/down hill
ll
ll
ll
ll
ll 10 yrd 20 yrd 30 yrd
ll_____________ l______________l______________l
<----------------- true horizontal distance ----------->

(this is a feeble attempt to demonstrate)

RE: up hill shots 45 degrees or more?
 

Oh man, my 10, 20 and 30 yrd marks on the horitonal line shifted during posting.
Oh well. If you get the horizontal distance right but are still shooting high or low
then shooting form is probably the problem.

RE: up hill shots 45 degrees or more?
 

Thanks guys! That NO PEEP web site is extreamly informitive. My form must go to hell when shooting uphill. Ive had to pass up a few big bulls at further yardages because not knowing where or how low my arrows where hitting. :D

RE: up hill shots 45 degrees or more?
 

I ordered my No Peep from Timberline Archery this morning and since they use the U.S. Post Office it could be here as early as tomorrow or maybe Wednesday.

I have studied its features and theories for some time and I know it will be a GREAT improvement for me.

RE: up hill shots 45 degrees or more?
 

It will take time to become well versed in the No Peep use but as I understand it when shooting dowhhill or uphill we tend to change our draw enough to make the difference because of the angle. The No Peep is supposed to prevent this since it would show your inconsistency. You would have to draw to the wall to align the NO Peep properly.

I usually draw to the wall anyway but on treestand shots I have taken, I am almost certain that I was not at the wall.

I' m also looking forward to low light shooting oportunities.

RE: up hill shots 45 degrees or more?
 

Buckbuster' s diagram is correct according to everything I have read and tried. You should shoot the horizontal distance. I use a no-peep and it helps me maintain my form. The only thing I would add is that if angles are REALLY steep you should take into acount that shooting the horizontal distance would cause you to hit the proper spot on the hide. Since the vitals are inside the animal I believe that to hit them properly that you must aim a very small amount low when shooting uphill and a very small amount high when shooting downhill so that you are at the proper height in the center of the animal. For shooting at flat targets the horizontal distance has always worked for me.

RE: up hill shots 45 degrees or more?
 

NP is a good product, but they are radicaly overselling it. It cures target panic! Give me a break.

No sight accessory should be relied on for form. Form is what you have when you draw the bow with your eyes closed, then open them. If everything is right them, you have good form.

The NP will definetly show you you have hand torque, but you can' t change the hand position until you let down, just twisting your hand straight is worse than useless. The NP is no different than looking at the position of your stabilizer or whatever, and seeing it pointed at your neighbour' s target.

I didn' t see on their site how it cures up/down shooting. Where is that? The basic downhill problem is that people don' t keep their T-form. There are other things, but that is the comon one. To shoot 45degrees downhill, you need to drop to a knee on the inside leg, brace on the downhill leg, and bend from the waist only. No dropping the bow arm. Not sure how the NP helps with that.

By the way, 45 degrees is very steep. In the Mont Blanc range in France, which contains many of Europe' s premier mountain climbs, the average angle of the great faces is 55 degrees. A real 45 is very steep, like being on a slide in the park, so just be sure you aren' t exagerating when you say it since it will impact your holdover.

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: up hill shots 45 degrees or more?
 

The nopeep will verify that your eye is in the same position in relationship to the riser. That is the only way you' ll be lined up with your nopeeps adjustment. This is one of my favorite characteristics of the nopeep. It' s a full 360-degree alignment device. It' s perfectly suited for extreme angles such as those from a treestand also, not just terrain inclines and decline. A 45-degree angle to your target isn' t that much when you’re talking about hunting from treestands.

Ossage-
I would have to argue (which I honestly try to avoid at all costs ;)) that it doesn' t help with up and downhill shots. If the basic problem shooting up and down hill is maintaining the T form, then the NP addresses this perfectly. If you drop your arm with the nopeep, you' ll loose alignment and it will be obvious because the circle will move or disappear all together. I also don' t understand how the riser could be in continuous alignment with you but " the back of your arrow could be anywhere" . Wouldn' t that mean that you could move the apex of the string at full draw up or down or left and right without moving the riser? I guess it might be possible but that would be a serious torque problem. If your doing something like that, BAM- the nopeep will show it unless you can actually hold the riser stationary while yanking " the back of the arrow" somewhere it shouldn' t be. Can you tell I' m not buying in to that one?

Of course this is all In My Opinion [:-], but I feel the nopeep is a great tool for archers to improve their consistency with. The only real Pro I know personally (30yr Martin shooter) believes that understanding and working with the nopeep and developing and engraining consistency in my form has greatly helped me make the progress I have to this point and I have the utmost respect for his opinions and know the man well.

-Chief

RE: up hill shots 45 degrees or more?
 

If your stab is a four incher I agree it won' t help. I shoot 3D with a 20" stab, and can easily see riser torque. I could see it by just taping and arrow to my shortie stab. I don' t have a torque problem, and I don' t have to check for it. When I had the nopeep on the riser it was one of several things that showed up my torque, so I cured it. It isn' t something I worry about when shooting, but like all fundamentals it is something you need to check on from time to time. Other things that show up torque are: Pins that sit outside the string/arrow centerline; Abnormal arm slap; left right arrows... You don' t need a NP to tell you you have torque.

With an 80% let-off bow it is less than child' s play (literally) to misalign the string. This is what you are doing when you torque the riser! With the NP, you see that the riser is torqued, and correct for the riser. With a peep, you easily see string misalignment, but may be torquing the riser. You need to correct both. If you have been shooting a peep, and torquing the riser, you will see some improvement in most cases when you put on a NP, because you are still in the groove with the string. If the string remains cool, net improvement. The string may start to develop bad habits of its own, after your groove wears off. Why would this happen? downhill shots are a perfect example of exactly where no string reference might be a problem. On the other hand, if you are old school, and shot for years by anchor point, and peerless string alignment, you may be rock solid. There are people who can hit softballs at 90 meters without release, wheels, peeps, or NPs.

I think the NP is a totally legitimate innovation, which they are badly overselling. It does what it does. The main advantages are better low light performance and no string fiddling (you don' t need to have a press to install and tune your peep). So far no world peace.:D

If you believe a pack of junk about the NP, then it will hurt your progress as a shooter.

RE: up hill shots 45 degrees or more?
 

If you loose " string reference" on downhill shots then your form has broken down and is incorrect.

-Chief