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RE: Carbon vs. Aluminum ?
 

The new search function works nicely!:D

Just type in exactly what you typed in your subject bar and I' m sure you' ll find plenty of threads with opinions on this subject.

RE: Carbon vs. Aluminum ?
 

Well, nobody has proved to me that it would be that much better.....that is why I still shoot those aluminums.

RE: Carbon vs. Aluminum ?
 

i shoot cx terminator hunters. this is a heavy carbon arrow and tough as steel. mine weigh 545gn with a 140gn head on them and 5" helical vanes. i still get 251 fps out of my hoyt havotec. i shot one completely through a 4x4 fence post by accident. still in great condition. these arrows also group awesome. 64.00 a dozen and well worth it

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RE: Carbon vs. Aluminum ?
 

*Carbons are more durable
*They are cheaper in the long run
*They are more forgiving or tolerant to changes in your set up(Most carbons come in 3-4 sizes with aluminums there are dozens,spine is more critical)
*carbon penetrates better
*less wind drift due to smaller diameter
the only negatives are initial cost is more and if you like a heavy arrow your selection is limited.Just make sure you buy a quality arrow,some of the cheaper brands are not straight enough.Gold tip XT' s(not hunters) and Beaman ICS are popular.

CB

RE: Carbon vs. Aluminum ?
 

Carbons can be more durable than aluminum, but not always. A cracked carbon is toast while a bent aluminum arrow can often be straightened to near factory tolerances. So, cheaper in the long run is relative.

Carbons come in a few sizes - a good thing for dealers, but not always a good thing for shooters. It presents problems getting the perfect spine for your setup. Just because you' re in that arrow' s spine range doesn' t mean you' ve got the right arrow for your bow. If you don' t shoot a setup that' s close to the middle of a carbon' s 20 pound spine range, within say 5-7 pounds either side of the middle, you wind up either marginally overspine or marginally underspine. In that case, the only option is to play around with arrow length and point weight. With aluminum, you can pick an arrow length and tip weight and choose the correct size arrow.

' Carbon penetrates better' is very much open for discussion. In some cases, yes, especially with the heavier carbons, but I don' t think it holds true for ALL carbons in ALL circumstances. In fact, I think the lighter weight carbons can be more of a hindrance to penetration than anything else.

Less wind drift because of smaller diameter is also open for discussion. Faster arrows with less flight time would give wind a shorter amount of time to blow the arrow around, but my experience is I wind up with MORE drift, not less. I think the lighter weight and lower momentum, which equals lower directional stability, allow the wind to blow a carbon arrow further off course than a heavier aluminum arrow. On very windy days, up around 20 mph, I' ve had a devil of a time shooting carbons when my aluminum arrows (which weight 100 grains more) flew great.

But I do agree that you get what you pay for.

RE: Carbon vs. Aluminum ?
 

I' ve shot and hunted with aluminum since the early 1960' s. I don' t plan on changing until they stop making them. According to studies I' ve read and some by Chuck Adams they cannot maintain a uniform wall thickness with carbons as they can with aluminum.

We frequently hear the argument between velocity and mass but penetration is and always will be a measure of the product of the two and it is called Kinetic Energy (aka Force). It the truth be told there are perpetual arguements in rifles and handguns that are exactly the same.

I have always believed that if you hit a deer in the lungs with a .243 it will drop him quicker than a .300 Weatherby Madnum shot to the hoof.

At 67# I ger 60 ft-lbs of Kinetic Energy and that is enough to easily take anything I' ll be hunting . . . as long as I make an Clean, Quick Killingf Shot to the vitals.

BTW I have a friend whose wife has shatered and splintered enough carbons to ruin my hunting budget.

RE: Carbon vs. Aluminum ?
 

All I can tell you is when I shot aluminums I bought a dozen arrows every season.7 years ago I started shooting carbons and I' m still shooting some of these arrows.I picked up a few used arrows off a shop during that time but am just now getting ready to buy new arrows.Let me clarify one thing,I am shooting the older pultruded style AFC arrows.I haven' t shot the new ICS type arrows yet.I do believe the outserts on the AFC helps keep the arrows from splitting on hard impact.From my experience there is no question carbon is more durable.I could never dig a 2213 out of a pine tree or shoot one thru a fence board and not bend the arrow.There is no doubt in my mind that carbons are more economical in the long run.

As for Chuck adams comments he' s on the payroll of the largest maker of aluminum arrows.I have a lot of respect for him as a hunter.But also know that he said in his first book that cam bows (vs round wheel) were too noisy and radical for hunting.We all know how that has turned out.Easton also made a big deal about carbon arrow splintering and making game inedible.At least that was before they bought out beman to get more share of the carbon market.

From my experience carbon does penetrate better.If you shoot a deer and hit the shoulder and your aluminum arrow bends(which I have had happen)What does that do for penetration?Carbons are stiffer for a given spine to weight ratio and this in my opinion makes them more forgiving.

I do believe that the quality of the carbon arrow you by does matter.Some of the cheaper models are not stright enough for my liking and can vary in weight per dozen.If you buy quality arrows this is not a problem.

Arthur P. I do respect your opinions,however we obviously have had different experiences with carbons.I can only relate mine.

CB

RE: Carbon vs. Aluminum ?
 

What do champion 3D shooters use?
Champion spot shooters?
FITA?

Cargo

RE: Carbon vs. Aluminum ?
 

CB, no offense intended. Your post was written like all points were incontrovertable facts when they' re mostly a matter of personal opinion and preference. I simply presented an opposing viewpoint.

I do buy new arrows every year. Several times a year, actually. After doing an archery workshop for a troop of Boy Scouts and letting them shoot some of my bows and my arrows yesterday, I' ll be buying new arrows again real soon. Frankly, if you shoot a lot, then you should buy at least a dozen new arrows every year... Even carbons. They might not break outright, but they do WEAR out.

By the way, who mentioned anything about The Chuckster and Easton? Where' d that come from? You have issues with Easton? Well, in the early days of carbon when they were making nothing but pultruded arrows and Easton was making those comments about carbon splinters... It was absolutely the truth. Back then, Easton had been making ACC' s and ACH' s. Aluminum Composite Competition and Aluminum Composite Hunting. They quit making the ACH' s and didn' t recommend ACC' s for hunting. It wasn' t simply slamming carbon arrows back then. It was hanging an umbrella over their butts in the area of product liability.

The metal outserts on the pultruded shafts never, ever kept them from splintering. You could walk around any archery course in those days and there' d be splintered arrows in every trash bucket. Today' s ICS type, bias wrapped carbons don' t splinter nearly as bad. I didn' t think they splintered at all any more, but I splintered one yesterday, an Easton Epic 340. (Shot at the 60 yard butt, used the 50 pin and hit metal target frame:()

That is my last point. If durability is that big an issue, then all one has to do is one simple thing... QUIT MISSING! ;) If you miss, you deserve to break an arrow, IMO. If you' re a tightwad, you either give up shooting bows OR you learn to shoot better. As often as the durability thing comes up, and as cliche as it has gotten, it makes it sound like a lot of people don' t have a positive attitude about their shooting. It' s actually starting to turn into one of my pet peeves.

And, just for the record, I think Chuck' s right about round wheels.

Sorry I can' t hang around and play, but I' m heading out for another session with the Scouts. They want to learn how to make a selfbow. ;)

RE: Carbon vs. Aluminum ?
 

AP I was' nt tearing aluminums up by missing the target,but from slamming them together in the target butt:D.Just about every aluminum I shot a deer with was toast also.One bad thing about them skinny little carbons with nock outserts.You cant hardly robbin hood them,notice I said hardly:) I never have been able to splinter one from a head on impact,but have had one or two hang down in my target bag and get hit from the side and splinter.The pultruded arrows won' t take much of a side impact.I' ve had a couple of spine shot deer fall on em and break em too.As for easton I do remember that when carbons first hit the market before they were making the pc' s that they made a big deal about carbon splinters in meat.I thought it was an attempt to discourage people from using carbon.As for Chuck he' s allways impressed me as a guy who does' nt like change,cam bows are the devil,shoots fingers and big aluminums,cut on contact heads arrow speed is evil.Hey AP you sure you ain' t really Chuck Adams?;)

Later,
CB

RE: Carbon vs. Aluminum ?
 

There' s nothing wrong with either one, and I made the switch from alums to carbons simply becasue I was tired of ruining alums on the 3D range. Its too easy to bend alums. Yes tolerances are not as perfect with carbons, but they have come along ways. I suggest picking up the latest issue of Petersons Bowhunting. They have an excellent article on todays carbons. They list several makes by weight grains. From the lightest to the heaviest. Carbons offer alot of variety now, and prices have come down alot. They are excellent for both target & hunting. Before you doubt something I' d suggest trying it, that way you know for yourself. I really like the carbons, and for the price I' ll never go back to alums. They are overall cheaper to own if you do quite abit of shooting.

RE: Carbon vs. Aluminum ?
 

I have all my alums numbered and have shot two deer with the same arrow and broadhead [just new blades]. I was settingthings up last week and it still spins fine and I' ll most likely use it again this year. If an when they bend, I have a staightener for them them I use them in 3-D' s and they work. I always buy a dozen new arrows and would if I shot carbons too.