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-   -   single cam vs dually ? (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/technical/24812-single-cam-vs-dually.html)

oscarg 02-26-2003 05:04 PM

single cam vs dually ?
 

can some please explain to me the advantage a dually has over single cam other than speed .everyone seems to be leaning to single to duallys for 3d . I try a dually but thought the soft wall would be counter productive to accuracy . thank for any help

PABowhntr 02-26-2003 05:45 PM

RE: single cam vs dually ?
 
Not all dual cam bows have a soft wall these days. It is not necessarily a good idea to make a generalization about an entire cam class based on one or two designs. The Bowtech Patriot DC that I just reviewed had a back wall as solid as all of the single cam bows I have shot except for the draw stop peg models.

justhunt 02-26-2003 05:58 PM

RE: single cam vs dually ?
 
This is a quote from the Mathew' s website FAQ. Of course they are talking about the advantage of a single cam.

How long do you have? Because the idler wheel on a single cam simply takes up the string, it allows the cam to remain in control. The cam provides the power. This increases stability because there arent two cams fighting for control.

For a perfect shot with a two-cam, both cams must fire at precisely the same time. To achieve this, the bow must be constantly tuned. The single-cam eliminates the problem of out-of-sync cams. After proper setup, it will remain in tune for a long time.

Finally, a single-cam is quieter and has much less recoil than its two-cam counterpart, which means you will shoot more accurately and with less fatigue.

Kanga 02-26-2003 06:11 PM

RE: single cam vs dually ?
 
Pinwheel12 done a good run down on the differences of the single and dual cams I wish I could find it.
Kevin might post it back in this thread.

But do you honestly think that companies like Hoyt,Bowtech,Martin and Merlin just to name a few have got it so wrong by producing more dual cam bows I think not.

Todays dual cam bows are far better than the dual cams of the early 90' s when the single cam made such a big impression.

Kanga 02-26-2003 06:33 PM

RE: single cam vs dually ?
 
I just found Pinwheels post on this matter.



" 1) Twin cams are faster than solos if of the same configuration. Therefore, manufacturers have made most conventional solos with a much harsher draw cycle which stores more energy in an effort to compete with the speed of the twins. This harsher draw cycle is much harder on the archers' shoulder and back muscles, especially when they " overbow" themselves with the " false sense of ease" of the 80% let-off at the end of the draw cycle. They also cannot be tuned to as fine a degree as twins simply because they have no opposing cam to " balance-out the system" . Ever get those occasional " flyers" with a conventional solo? Most everyone that shoots a conventional solo has had them at one time or another. You simply cannot tune them out with a conventional solo, they come from creeping slightly forward (most archers will from time to time) which rotates the single cam, and throws your shot. With twins you can " supertune" (what I call the creep-tune method) both cams and eliminate those high or low shots and have the same impact points regardless of creep or overdraw. In other words IMHO you have to work much harder to shoot a conventional solo with the same consistency as a finely-tuned twin, especially when being a beginning or average archer, regardless of what you " think" you feel due to the higher let-off. Try it with an open mind and see for yourselves.

2) Most conventional solos have 80% let-off to help " mask" the harsher draw cycle they exhibit as stated above. This IMO is also detrimental to an average shooters' accuracy, because the higher the let-off, the less tension that runs through the entire system, and this lesser tension allows the archer to draw the string out of it' s natural path much easier, therefore causing more left/right shots. Pros are not as apt to be bothered by this or by #1, because they know what they can safely and comfortably pull, and have superb form and shooting skills. Yes, Pros are winning with solos, but they are being paid to and are going where the money is, otherwise few would be there IMO. They also do not have any of the " form flaws" that most archers do, and thus CAN win with them. I have shot solos for quite awhile myself, but can honestly say I have never shot the scores that I do with twins. Many Pros like Dave Cousins say the difference between solos and twins and accuracy is that with the conventional solo they can keep them holding a " sloppy 10, tight 9" , but with twins they can keep them in the " tight 10, or X" . With something like 16 World Records under Daves' belt, and the input from other top archers backing twins, I think they know what they' re talking about. That same distance can be the difference between a solid double lung and a " no-man' s land" shot while hunting, or the difference between a 10 and a 12 in 3D. Another interesting fact is that most of the Pros I know that shoot the solos are running 65% modules or cams in them. Ever pull a true 65% solocam? He-he, better you than me, been there and done that, no wonder I feel old!

3) The hard-wall of the solos is now being matched by built-in " wallbangers" (stops) on alot of the twins. They are rock solid also. Moot point here.

4) Conventional Solos need to be kept in time also, contrary to the " myth" that they are virtually maintenence free. Cam rotation and nocking point height are VERY critical with them, and they can go " out" quickly with their longer string due to increased chance of slippage or stretch. This is not as much of a factor today with the better string materials/better building techiniques available, but a shorter string/cable combination is always better than a longer one regardless to take away any factor at all.(some solos admittedly now have dual-track idlers and an adjustable cam also which helps this. In other words they have two cams! Any time a cable goes to a " stop" on a eccentric, that eccentric must be counted as a power source, so technically all of these designs are in fact twins! ) This means the average Joe will be spending more time at the shop and on the range chasing sight marks on a conventional solo than a guy with a twin. I have not touched my twin in over 8 months since I switched over to new limbs for it, the cams are still perfectly on my timing marks after thousands of shots, and it hits the X every time. None of my previous conventional solos would touch that for that period of time without some diddling.

In fact, IMO the ONLY 2 things conventional solos now currently have over the twins is 1)- that out of the box, they will initially hold better. This is readily rectified in the twins during the tuning/setup process, and becomes a moot point if done correctly with proper stabilization and timing/tuning. Most new twins hold superbly anyway. And 2)-- They are quieter for the most part. Out of the box, this is a true assumption and I have no arguement. Interestingly enough, a quick and correct application of cat whiskers and limbsavers for hunting applications (who cares how loud your target bow is if it goes into the X?) will put most every quality bow made today (twin or solo) in the same class also, and is much cheaper IMHO than a doctors' bill for strained or torn muscles due to a harsher draw-force curve and the " masking" of an 80% let-off.

And again---" If they keep on upgrading the solocam, they' ll re-invent the twin cam" . I believe this statement to be more correct than not.

I don' t believe this should turn into a Ford/Chevy debate over solos/twins, but I felt that I should clarify a few issues and offer my thoughts on why I feel twins will be a better choice overall for most archers. As stated, whatever you feel comfortable with and whatever you' d like to shoot is fine with me, there are many guys shooting conventional solos out there that love them. As long as we' re all shooting, that is definately what matters most."


I think that sums it up from my standpoint. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12


pdq 5oh 02-27-2003 11:06 AM

RE: single cam vs dually ?
 

For a perfect shot with a two-cam, both cams must fire at precisely the same time. To achieve this, the bow must be constantly tuned. The single-cam eliminates the problem of out-of-sync cams. After proper setup, it will remain in tune for a long time.
What' s a perfect shot? Single cams sure don' t achieve that. I' ll bet for a " perfect shot" , you need level nock travel. Something single cams don' t provide. Constantly tuning dual cam bows is a myth. My P38 DC has been timed & synched once since I got it, 10 months ago, and I shoot it alot. My single cam bow has been retimed once as well, in the same time period. Speed aside, I feel the biggest advantage to duals is the forgiving nature, when I' m not on top of my game. If I creep with a single cam the shot will be off. Not so with a creep tuned dual cam bow. And those flyers that come from nowhere occasionally with the single cam? Don' t have ' em with the dual cam, or at least not the bow' s fault.;)


Finally, a single-cam is quieter and has much less recoil than its two-cam counterpart, which means you will shoot more accurately and with less fatigue.
Single cams are generally quieter, but many duals are very quiet as well. To say a single cam will make a shooter more accurate and with less fatigue is nonsense. I think it' s a fact that Vegas was won with a dual cam bow. I think 2nd & 3rd were duals, also. And I get no more tired shooting a dual cam as opposed to single cam bow.

justhunt, my only intention here was to comment on Mathews quotes. Thanks for posting them.

ijimmy 02-27-2003 11:38 AM

RE: single cam vs dually ?
 
What pdq said ----- plus I will add that strings have come a long way since the intoducion of the single cam which alows dual cams to stay in sync longer

CAJUNBOWHNTR 02-27-2003 01:26 PM

RE: single cam vs dually ?
 
After shooting a solo cam(mathews) for the past seven years I recently purchased a used darton with the cps system(thanks CG;) )I' ve really been impressed with it.Draws smooth,no jerky let down,shoots awesome.And no more left right WTF happened shots.I was gonna hand it off to my son but I think he' s gonna get the mathews instead.With hoyts cam and a half maybe this is where we are headed.

CB

JOE PA 02-27-2003 07:38 PM

RE: single cam vs dually ?
 
I was about to respond to the post with the Mathews quotes, but Phil (pdq5oh) did such a good job, that it seems unnecessary now!

As far as fatigue goes, I don' t think anything wears out my shoulders like high draw weight late in the draw, followed by a sudden letoff of 80%. Today' s string materials makes the " constantly tuning" comment ridiculous.

Nothing really that wrong with singles for most people, and really good shooter can shoot them unbelievably well. When you read the web site of a company that is trying to sell its product instead of a competitors product, a salt shaker is often a handy tool to have along.;)

Pinwheel 12 02-28-2003 05:33 AM

RE: single cam vs dually ?
 
I guess I really have no need to comment further, Ausie-Guy found my previous post and that pretty much sums it up for me. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12


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