Arthur P

You are custom matching your tiller to your uniqueshooting style and setup. If you were a robot, ifevery single bow on the planet was made exactly the same way, and if every single limbon every single bow wereexactly matched in power throughout their total range of flex, then there might be a way to set tiller mechanically.But you're not and they aren't.

So... no. No mechanical means to set tiller correctly. This is one of the fewareas of archery where the human factor really cannotbe tooled out. Well, not until we start transplanting our brains into cyborg units anyway. [8D]

Besides, why over-complicate something that's so easy and simple to do?

edit... I misread your post, JNTURK. My bad.Sorry about that. Pre-coffee brain fog. [&:]

Yes, there IS a way to fine tune tiller with group tuning. I've never seen much need to mess with it to that extent though because, frankly, I can't shoot good enough to see a 1/4" difference in group size at 90 meters. [&o]I've never even bothered to learn the whole process. Even what I describe here is so far over and beyond what the average 3D'er and bowhunter does that some won't even attempt it.You'd probably have better luck finding out about those othertiller tuningmethods by going over to the archery talk forum and asking those paper punchers.

JNTURK

thank you for the fast reply. i just wanted to make sure that this was the best way to do it....and since i won't be shooting out to 90 meters (yet)....i will set the tiller like you posted..

bowjunkie2

Arther.....Do you balance out your bow first with a stabilizer and weight stack ...then draw and see which way the pin moves? I would think that the stab would control pin movement? I'm confused ??????

Arthur P

It's probably best to have all the accessories you intend to use on the bow, just like with all other tuning procedures. But really, what I am interested in is how the power of the limbs are balanced around my grip. Counter balances and stabilizers might interfere with the bow's reaction, make them less noticeable. I do it without additional weights first to get the most reaction I can. THEN I add all my stuff and double check with it on there.

I've noticed that a lot of times the extra weights and heavy stabilizers are simply countering the effect of unbalanced limbs. Equalizing the power of thethe limbsmight allow you to dump a lot of that excess weight. Depending on the bow and your shooting style, it can make a huge difference in how a bow feels and handles.

peakrut

Arthur thanks for all the help you have been on here and showing great patiances.

Thanks

bowjunkie2

Thanks Arthur...I've just bought a new bow(Constitution) and when my custom stab ( 10" + adj wt stack) comes in I will be starting to tune and want to tune as best I can. Thanks again for answering my question.

General18

I was told That the tiller isn't a big issue to the average hunter. Esp. on single cam bows and cam 1/2 bows. It use to be a issue on older bows but isn't any more. Its only important to the extreme comp. shooters. The people that want there field tips and arrows sanded down to the .0001 haha! I read all the post about this and tried everything with my bow and the only thing it would do was when i shot the bottom side kicked forward a little bit causing it to rock, but i shoot it fine, it hits where i aim and i can group well! So i dont know............ Is that kick caused by the tiller, i shoot the 08 General by the way.

Arthur P

I have also heard such nonsense and commented about single cams and hybrids earlier in this thread, in the very first post on the threadas a matter of fact. I think these kinds of myths are started by either the ignorant or by people trying to sell something.

You are shooting a high performance bow. Let's imagine for a moment that your bow is a high performance car... say a Ferrarri. Suppose it's running a bit rough, but still runsplenty goodenough to get you to work and back. It might be doing everything you actually need for it to do, but you could get the same work from a soccer mom's mini-van. You paid a lot of money for a high end sports car, so are you going to be satisfied with the car not performing any better than soccer mom's ride? I wouldn't think so. You'd want to have that Ferrarri tuned to the max and running right so you could be a screaming blur on the open road if you were so inclined.

So... why wouldn't you demand the same level of tuning for your high performance bow?

That's the big thing about high performance equipment that many people just do not understand. High performance equipment requires a high level of tuning and a high level of maintenance in order towring outall the performance you pay for. Extreme competition shooters, as you name them, know this. It's something the average bowhunter needs to understand as well. Until that understanding comes about, the average bowhunter would be just as well off - probably even better off and have more money in his pocket to boot- with an inexpensive entry level bow with so-so performance. Just my opinion, of course.

In answer to your question... I wouldn't know without checking out the bow and setupmyself, naturally, but I do have a very strong suspicion that the rocking you describe is attributable to the tiller being a bit off. You might have the bottom limb a little too stiff.

dbleyepatches

Arthur,

I have read this post in it's entirety and have one question. It is very technical but I will try to explain it the best that I can.

When the bow is drawn the d-loop (in my case) is being drawn straight from the fulcrum point of the handle which would make the need for the tiller to be adjusted in the manner that you have described.

However when the bow is shot the nock point is pushing straight on the arrow,which is set to be at thecenter point of the bow.

It seems to me that if you set the tiller in the way that you described that you are setting the tiller for the nock to grip relationship, when actually the important issue is what happens when the nock is pushing straight on the arrow, in the center of the bow.

I wouldn't think that the bow would shoot exactly like it is drawn because if the bow is shot properly there is very little force put on the grip.

I do not claim to be a specialist in this area, just want to fully understand.

Arthur P

People have been trying for thousands of years to fully understand what's happening when an arrow is launched from a bow. Even with high speed video equipment and all the computer power we've got now, it still ain't happened.

No matter whether the grip is at the center of the bow (as it is with some designs) or the arrow pass is at the center (as it is on other designs), you still have to contend with the basic problem that the arrow pass is several inches above the grip. You push on the grip during the draw. You push on the grip during the shot (if the grip didn't have resistance against it during the shot, the entire bow would move backward as the string moves forward) So, the grip is where all the pressures are brought to bear.

You have to balance the tiller so that the pressures are equal on either side of the fulcrum or the bow will rock back and forth during the draw and during the shot.

If the bow is rocking during the shot, the nock is moving up and down while the arrow is on the string. It will make the tail of the arrow move up and down during the launch as well. Maybe you can see the potential problem with unexplainable tail high/tail low tears when shooting through paper.

Watch this video. You can barely see the bow rock during launch. You can clearly see the rearward movement of the riser, which I referred to earlier. There is definitely a LOT of pressure applied to the grip during the shot, whether you feel it or not. But pay close attention to the closeup of the launch from the arrow rest. You can see the effect of the nock oscillating up and down on the string. This bow isn't bad, but it could stand a little bit of work done to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDV1pHtI7S8

Wouldn't it be great to have a high speed camera as part of your bow tuning gear?

Here are some more slo-mo videos, just for the heckuvit. These are pretty old, but still interesting, especially for fingers shooters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48R2ajWx3rY