Arthur P

Then don't, and be happy. Like somebody is sitting on your chest trying to make you do it anyway.

I will say I'd expect a lot less misinformation coming from someone with all your claimed background though.

Again, nobody is trying to MAKE anybody do anything. It's all about telling folks about alternatives to your way, with which I and others do not agree. I'll stand up for what I believe and I don't care of you don't like it or not.

NOT a sloppy setup. Not ever. A heavy arrow setup can be tuned just as precisely and be every bit as accurate as any light arrow setup. It's about not going unnecessarily light in arrow weight, not about getting sloppy. The difference in point of impact between a 500 grain arrow at 250 fps and a 350 grain arrow at 300 fps is LESS THAN AN INCH. To say you have to have a light arrow to shoot flat at that distance is incredably naive. And I think a whole lot of folks would be happier with setups using heavier arrows that are a lot less finicky to tune.

If you want to shoot game at 50 yards, more power to ya. Just tells me you're not skillful enough as a hunter to get any closer. It also tells me you can't judge yardage worth beans, and are too cheap to buy a rangefinder. Otherwise you wouldn't need super light arrows for that flat trajectory. I have yet to see a light arrow that's as accurate and consistent on a known yardage as a heavier arrow.

In fact, I've noticed since we've gotten all this 'improved' equipment - light arrows and fast bows - that scores are not as good today as they were 20 years ago. My average scores in Bowhunter Freestyle Limited back then would have easily won the National Championship the past few years, and I never placed higher than 3rd in State. IBO yardages have gotten shorter and shorte, but the average scores today are no better than they were 20 years ago either. So please, spare me the baloney about light arrows being more accurate.

Oh... one other thing ... If you really want to be taken seriously, how about brushing up on your grammar and punctuation? It's really difficult to understand what you're trying to say when you type in gibberish. Can't even tell where one sentence ends and another begins. Sheesh! Kinda makes makes you look like you're just some under achieving high school kid hanging out in the computer lab instead of going to English class.

Okay... but I'll borrow an arrow from bowdoc to do it. [8D]

JoeRE

Sheesh guys-- everybody is blowing this waaay out of proportion.
Momentum

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


•TenthingsyoumaynotknowaboutWikipedia•
[/align][/align][/align]Jump to: navigation, search
[/align]This article is about momentum in physics. For other uses, see Momentum (disambiguation).
[/align]In classical mechanics, momentum (pl. momenta; SI unit kg m/s, or, equivalently, N·s) is the product of the mass and velocity of an object.

The most important bit is below

Momentum is a conserved quantity, meaning that the total momentum of any closed system (one not affected by external forces) cannot change.

Momemtum is what is behind arrow penetration, the game animal is the outside 'force' that stops the arrow. Momentum is the product of mass x wieght. they are EQUAL factors

350 fps x 6/70 lb (600 grain) arrow = 30 (units)(forgive my sin of using lbs o physics majors, its a linear relationship and this is just to prove a point!)

600 fps x 3.5/70 lb (350 grain) arrow = 30..(the exact same).....uh oh.........

Can light arrows get the job done? yep. Do they resist that 'force' trying to stop them as well? NO NO NO ALL else being equal which it rairly is...for instance, lighter arrows have smaller diameters which means less surface area, which can reduce drag, particulary in targets with no blood for 'greasing' it a bit.

[/align][/align]I am staying out of the FOC debate for obvious reasons[/align]

bowdoc1

Good girl try things and find out for yourself what works best for you. Don't let others misslead you, find out for yourself and go from there on whats best for you and your hunting. Don't use something that dosn't work for you just because some one says you should do it this way

Good luck girl
Put them down

Arthur P

What some of us are talking about is using those lighter arrows, but adding additional weight to them (brass inserts, heavier broadheads, weight tubes, etc) to bring the mass up. That way you get all the momentum benefits of 'logs' plus the smaller diameters, less surface area, reduced drag, etc.

This thing kinda started out in the traditional community, where the guys wanted to shoot carbon arrows but found out they were TOO light and hand shock and vibration were too severe with them. So we began experimenting with stuffing things down the shafts, like weedeater line, foam, sand, aquarium air tubing... Got the weight up to where they were as heavy as aluminum arrows and the handshock was tamed. About half the traditional shooters are using carbon now, the other half split between wood and aluminum.

Then, several years ago, some brilliant dude with a lathe made a few inserts out of brass and the trend to extreme FOC was reborn. We can get the weight without stuffing the innards of the shaft with stuff, and then it began being noticed that the extreme weight forward arrows were a lot easier to tune, and less affected by wind and penetration was better than ever. This isn't something Ashby discovered, he's just scientifically quantified the phenomenon.

This extreme FOC thing is just now filtering into the compound world, where some folks who aren't afraid of change have done their own experimenting and have seen some pretty incredible success with it.

JoeRE

Arthur P: I have never tested that obviously, so I cannot comment, but it is interesting to me. I have not seen brass inserts before, were are they commercially available? I am going arrow shopping in the near future....

Arthur P

Here ya are, Joe.

http://www.3riversarchery.com/Product.asp?c=58&s=47&p=257&i=0255

JoeRE

sweet thanks

bowdoc1

Who shoot field any more I don't think theres a field range around here for 100s of miles. I also shot a lots of field archery in FSL as a NFAA PRO years ago and shot in the 520s to 530s and was in the money at most of are midwesterns, state and nationals. The good field shooters are almost all gone and the better shooter now days are shooting IBO, ASA and NFAA 3D, so your not going to get the great scores of the past. I do have a rangefinder and use it some times and most of my kill are in the 15 to 25 yard range. I just like my fast hard hitting bow and the pass throughs I get with my 400 grain carbon arrows.

Straightarrow

I've been shooting Gold Tips alot because I like the ease and variety of their insert adapters. The result is a fairly traditional carbon profile. My brother likes Axis arrows which don't have an easy way to add weight to the insert, so he had a buddy (with a lathe) make steel outserts (fits between the inserts and the broadheads. The result is a 700 grain arrow that he shoots out of a Ross Cardiac with a 30" draw at 73 lbs. Profile is that of a skinny carbon with a traditional size broadhead. I pitty the shoulder of any deer that thinks it's going to stop that arrow. I've seen the results of a shoulder hit with that combination - the deer didn't have a chance. It's a bone crushing setup. In fact, the arrow is traveling about 230 fps, which is anything but slow in my book. Figure out the momentum on that puppy!

Straightarrow

No way!. I don't want to be suffering from a shoulder hit if I jump the string. Pull out a "log" and get it over with quick.