Arthur P

I'd be more likely to call it due to ignorance. Not a one of these guys arguing against it has ever tried extreme FOC. They choose to ignore and berate anything and everything that doesn't fall neatly into their narrow vision, rather than experiment and learn.

What people like bowdoc, quicksilver and MeanV can't seem to understand is there are a great many bowhunters who use lighter draw weights and shorter draw lengths, so they cannot generate the extremely high energy levels these speed freaks are using to achieve the results they get with their ultralight arrows. They have to shoot a 350 grain arrow at 300 fps for 70 fpe just to get the same penetration potential of a primitive hunter using a 700 grain arrow from a selfbow at 150 fps and a mere 35 fpe.

Arrow weight goes a long, long way toward making up for a lack of energy, and the heavy arrow does a MUCH better job of retaining that penetration potential downrange - where the deer is standing.

Doegirl, 400 grains certainly is NOT unreasonable and, like Straightarrow said, it's very easy to make up a carbon arrow that'd work perfectly for you. Putting extra weight up front, by switching out the aluminum inserts for brass, will allow you to use a heavier, stiffer spined arrow with your current broadheads. It will open up a whole new class of arrow shafts you can choose from. And you will get a more effective, better penetrating arrow for you to hunt with.

Straightarrow

Doegirl, I hate to see you receive so much misinformation, so I'm going to explain why the heavier, higher FOC does not work the way others would have you believe.

First, all arrows, whether 300 gr, 600 gr or 1000 gr, drop at the exact same rate. Gravity determines this. The rate is 32'/sec/sec. The only thing that affects this drop rate is air resistance. The amount of resistance is dependent on things like surface area and surface friction. The difference in these for different arrow designs is negligible at typical hunting distances. Therefore, the 32'/sec/sec works just fine for figuring drop. The other variables are the speed of the arrow and the distance of the target. All together, these give you the total drop - nothing else. It doesn't matter one bit if the weight is on the tip or in the middle, a 400 grain arrow will drop the same amount at a given target at a given speed. I can say this with confidence because of two things. One is the laws of physics and two, I've tested this in the field. "Nose dropping" because of heavy tips is a myth perpetuated by those who don't know better.

If you shoot a 3 pin sight and set them at 15, 20 and 25 yards, you will hit exactly where you should as long as you know the yardage before you shoot and don't extend your range much past 25 yards. Penetration will be better for two reasons. First, heavier arrows contain more momentum and retain more energy downrange and two, extreme FOC arrows are proven to penetrate animals better. It's especially important for those with shorter draw lengths and lower draw weights to use the heavier, higher FOC arrows, because they give you advantages that your draw weight and draw length take away.

Kanga

Hate to break this too ya guys specially after all the typing you have done but I designed Jennifer (Doegirl) a arrow last night and pm'd it to her.

410gr total weight with a 25.3 FOC and spined perfectly for her set up.

I just know those babies are gonna fly real good for her.

gibblet

well, air resistance isn't the only thing. the numbers you gave deal w/ the force of gravity at sea level. at 10,000 ft not only is drag reduced, but so is gravity.

KodiakArcher

But in a scientific comparison amongst arrows it can be discluded because it's the same for them all. You can't scientifically compare one at sea level with another at 10K'. Another factor in favor of Artie's arguement that personal observations/experiences are less valid than a scientific study.

MeanV2

When it comes to experience, I doubt any of you can put me to shame. I have killed several different species with arrows weighing 330 grains to 600+ grains and setup properly they will all work on Big Game. Extreme FOC is NOTa must and neither is 500 grain arrows. I like my Foc between 12% and 18% for broadheads that works for me and that's what matters. Just because you like Cherry KoolAid don't tell people it's the only flavor that will quinch your thrist. Some of you guys take hard-headedness to a new level. Enjoy your Cherry KoolAid!!

Dan

Arthur P

Oh but wait, MeanV... You said you are getting 68ft lbs of energy earlier. You're putting more KE into that 330 grain deer killing arrow than Fred Bear had with his 75 lb recurve and 1200 grain arrows to bring down an African elephant! Wouldn't it be embarrasing if you didn't blow through a puny little whitetail with enough energy to kill an elephant?

There's the crux of my problem with you speed guys. You go spouting off about how ultralight arrows work fine for you, but you rarely, if ever, give details about your setup. Until someone calls you out and forces you to, that is.

Just as point of record, is there a minimum energy level you would draw a line at, and say that people should go heavier with arrow weight at that point? Animal size and toughness...

You've already said you go heavier for elk, so you have already admitted that ultralight arrows do not cover the whole spectrum of big game. Now you come back and contradict yourself by saying:

So... Which is it? At least keep your posts consistent and quit trying to confuse the issue.

bowdoc1

I call it due to lack of experience.!!!! Most people will tell you I have forgotton more about archery than most will ever know. 40 years carrying a pro card being on two different arrow companies shooting staff and 4 different bow company staff over the years. have shot perfect scores in target and have taken 100's of large game and have taken a lot P&Y class game. I got payed for my infomatoin on tunning bows and arrows and hunting info. at pro shops and archery shows for years and I have got to travel all over this great land with my bow in hand, but I guess I don't have the experience like you guys talk about hard heads and I'm not going to set a bow up your way been there and have done that before and it didn't work as good as my set up now Its my right to hunt the way that I am now to make the cleanest kills I have ever make on game with pass throughs and shooting the lights out at out to 50 yards with my broadheads, pass through are pass throughs if the arrow wieghs 600 or 300 grains I don't think game will measure the wieght of the arrow as it going through them. I owe it to myself and the game I hunt to be at my best. I did shoot well with heavier arrows and points , but my set up now is doing a lot's better job now for me, on the game I hunt and for the good of bowhunting. Do what you want, but don't try to make other do it your way because you think your right and what to limit the ones that don't are can't do it your way for bowhunting, are try to make them shoot a sloppy set up, so they can make them get a bad hit on some thing are take the fun out of hunting for them. Doegril set up is just fine for hunting I hope she kill a world record class buck with her 410 grain arrow and set up. I'm sure it woun't bounce off him and will do a great job on him.

By the way Auther Fred told me once he would never shoot a elephant agian they had to follow it for days before it died. Before he passed on he had told me about lots of stories of things that they had to edited on his films

Doegirl75

Yes, I'll give the extreme FOC setup a try sometime this season. Granted, I'm a little skeptical, since it flies against almost every conventional standard of what's a proper hunting arrow. I guess the worst thing that could happen is that I don't like it.

Straightarrow

If I ever forget as much as you have, someone shoot me - please!!