RE: speed vs ke
 

In those 40 years I've killed deer with several type bows, arrows, and broadheads. My draw is only 28" I'd say that's average to short. Even though yours is on the very short side. Maybe you do need Heavy arrows;)

Dan

RE: speed vs ke
 

I know what you're talking. Modern compound, blah, blah, blah... You are talking about a specific type of bow at a specific power level.

What about the guy who wanders into the local box store and heads out to hunt with an inexpensive entry level round wheel, 50 pound PSE? What about a 10 year old kid going out to hunt with the 40 pound compound his dad just set him up with? They are both proud owners of brand new, modern compounds aren't they? Only two teensie weensie differences between their modern compounds and yours. Power and performance level.

Say these folks saw your post about blowing through elk with an arrow that weighed less than 350 grains. Suppose they decided that would be perfect for them as well and they went and set themselves up with arrows in that weight range. Would you feel comfortable with that, knowing their bows are much less powerful than the setup you used to perform such magic?

Guys like you worry me. You hardly ever think outside your own little world. And you get all bent out of shape whenever anyone has the audacity to disagree with you and say there is another way to look at things. And heaven forbid that anyone should blatantly say out loud, in front of God and everybody, that your way is dead wrong for a whole bunch of folks that are not using bows with the latest performance technology.

I know my way will work on ANY bow of legal hunting weight. Your way is pretty exclusive only to bows with a pretty high minimum performance level. Once you admit to that, maybe we've made some progress.

RE: speed vs ke
 

What percentage of Archers on here do you think you are talking to? Blah, blah, blah;)I've got a brick wall you can argue with, it might end up a Draw:D

Dan

RE: speed vs ke
 

In the 43 year i have hunted I have shot about evey kind of bow and arrows out there for hunting and target. Shot pro at 21 and had a 300 avreage indoor and about 285 indoors average bare bow with a 65 lb recurve hunting bo and had hunted a lot of states for deer,bear and elk. I never shot 45 lbs for hunting. I have shot 45 lbs for target with a clicker. All the bowhunters back then that i hunted with and shot target with shot 50 to 65 lb bows for hunting. I have shot wood, fiberglass, alunminus and carbon arrows. Todays compounds are great with the arrows we use for hunting today. I don't ever hear the old stories like back then about gun hunter are a farmer finding deer with a arrow sticking out of it most of the time I think some where laying about it to try to make bowhunters look bad to others. They are also more educated about bowhunting today. I can say it's not my arrow because mine always pass through and has my name on it. I would always get calls from bowhunters about 3 to 4 nights the week to go out and try to help find there deer. I knew a lot of bowhunter and some I didn't know, but knew me. It still happen today some times , but now it's only two are three times a year, gun hunters lose them too. Now days it not as near as much as back then with recurve bow and the older arrows we used. We owe it to the game to use better bows and better arrows that we have now days. Thats way I always say I will never look back. We have come a long way to better are sport. I have seen kids and some women that shoot lighter poundage pass throughs deer. My son started with 45 lb compound at 12 and had lot of pass through and that wasn't with a 600 grain arrow but with cut on impact broad heads on his arrows. He shoots 60 to 65 Lb now he is 41 years old. Archery has been my life for over 40 years, I have made money at it shooting and selling and have taken a lots of food with it to. I wouldn't know how to live with out it.

RE: speed vs ke
 

Arthur P don't be misquotin me!;)Under 350 grains are my light arrows. On Elk I use my Heavy arrows 390 to 420 grain arrows. Case in point 390 grains.
I take a lot of pains to make sure my arrows are spined correctly, have proper FOC, and are flying Straight! That's the way you really get penetration:D

Dan

RE: speed vs ke
 

390 grain arrows are still 10 grains lighter than I'd even use on a mangey skunk. [:'(];)

Oh please! Is that not a given?? That is - well, should be, as I'll get to in a moment - standard operating procedure no matter what weight arrows you use.

Here we are again though with the tunnel vision and not seeing the whole picture. We cannot forget the masses who wouldn't know a cable yoke from a set screw when it comes to properly tuning a bow and have absolutely no clue what tuning an arrow means. Oh, they can take their bows to the shop to get them 'tuned'. Problem is, we know how much THAT is worth when the person who tunes the bow is not the same person that will be shooting it. Even if these tuning-challenged folks were to shoot the same setup you use, THINK.... If they don't have a clue on how to tune their equipment for the optimal performance YOU demand, how can you possibly expect them to have the results you get with ultralight arrows?

Can't you see the problem I have with making a blanket statement saying light arrows work with no qualifications? I should think it's so obvious I wouldn't have to slap you upside the head like this to make you see it!

I've long been a proponent of a 400 grain legal minimum arrow weight for hunting. Nothing I've seen of late has caused my opinion to shift one iota.

RE: speed vs ke
 

Next time I have a question about Arrow setup I'll PM Ya Arty P;)Not!!:D
If you had seen and worked on as many setups as I have you would know nothing is a given to the biggest percentage[8D]

Dan

RE: speed vs ke
 

Don't even want my advice on arrow setups. Ah, now you're breakin' my heart, dude.:D Don't worry. I won't be asking you for advice either. Still might buy one of your gizmos someday, so you haven't ticked me off that bad yet. ;)

If you know that nothing is a given when talking about the biggest percentage, then what's so hard about admitting ultralight arrows are not a good choice for everyone? You SEE the kind of stuff they use. You KNOW the condition it's in.

Left handed launcher rest with worn out bearings, mounted from the front side of the bow with the prongs pointed back at the shooter? Yeah, I've seen that guy! Or how 'bout the one who shows up to hunt with a bow that's got dirt dauber nests inside the cam cutouts and is covered in dust and cobwebs? Or the one who has 6 arrows in his quiver, all different brands, different spines and wearing different broadheads?

And these are the folks you want to encourage to use ultra light arrows? That's what you're doing every time you say "it works for me" without bringing in all the prerequisites involved in the process.

RE: speed vs ke
 

Arthur kindly show me where I said light arrows are for everyone;)If I shot a Recurve or a Martmart bow I would add some weight to my arrows. Then again there is a vast majority of Bowhunters out there today shooting top notch equipment that do Not require 500 grain arrows to get plenty of penetration. Shoot what you like but don't tell those who prefer lighter arrows thatthey can't get adequate penetration, and by the way I wouldn't waste any arrow on a Mangy Skunk, Heavy or Light:DMaybe all those years instead of bowhunting and trying different setups I should have been reading some X perts advice[8D]

The Cob Web bowhunters you are talking about are not on HNI reading;)Honestly it wouldn't make any difference what weight arrows they are shooting unless they weighed as much as my Pickup:eek:

Dan

RE: speed vs ke
 

"I let the experiences I've gained in 40 years of Bowhunting tell me something, and one thing it has told me is that heavy arrows are not necessary in modern compound bows to hunt with."

"If I shot a recurve I might shoot logs, but there is no need to out of modern day compounds."

" Most of the time KE is not a problem with bows today."

Not a single mention about tuning, poundage, performance, or any of that other icky stuff until much later. Just if you have a modern compound, then you're good to go. Kind of irresponsible of you, IMO.

There is a vast majority of bowhunters out there today shooting top notch equipment but also have absolutely NO CLUE how to tune them in order get all the performance out of those bows they spent so much money for. You know this, so quit playing stupid.

And I beg to differ with you on what percentage of bowhunters are shooting top notch equipment in the first place. Judging by the people who've come through the gate at our archery range and in the woods, it's nowhere near a majority, I assure you.

I'd also be willing to wager there are more cobweb hunters lurking around in the shadows reading these forums than you realize.