Stupid Question???
 

If one of the main reasons that a shorter brace height is harder to shoot accurately/consistently is the fact that the arrow stays on the string longer, then.... wouldn't shooting a heavy (slower) arrow have almost the same effect??

RE: Stupid Question???
 

You are making my head hurt...<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

If you could hold all other variables constant, then I would guess that you are right. The 'lock time' from release to arrow launch might be the same between a low brace height bow with an 'average' weight arrow and a high brace height bow with a heavy arrow. But there are so very many other variables that come into the equation that you may never be able to isolate the accuracy variance.

The most important part of the archery equation is shooting form. If we could develop perfect form, the brace height issue becomes moot.

HuntingNet Member since Spring 2001

RE: Stupid Question???
 

It's not the amount of time...when people say it stays on the string longer, they are referring to distance travelled...the arrow stays on the string longer because it's travelling a further distance. The heavy arrow and light arrow have to travel the same distance...time-wise there might be a minute difference because of arrow weight, however it would be insignificant compared to the distance.

RE: Stupid Question???
 

Jeff,

So then is a 30&quot; draw shooter severely handicapped compared to a 26&quot; draw shooter???

RE: Stupid Question???
 

HEEHEE, I small trouble brewing.

RE: Stupid Question???
 

Well..... there's two way of looking at the long vs. short draw length. If you have a 25&quot; draw archer who is torquing the riser 2 degrees, and then a 32&quot; draw archery who is torquing the riser the same 2 degrees- it's a wash, even though the 32&quot; archer may be torquing a greater amount (distance wise), because of the longer draw it is still the same angle of torque. Now on the other hand, if you have both the long and short draw archers moving their strings at full draw 1/2&quot; to the side, the short draw archer will have more of an angle due to the short draw. Make sense?

But as far as brace height, the closer the arrow on the string gets to the pivot point of the bow (your hand mating with the throat of the grip), the more magnified any small torque errors become.

You can do an example of this right at your desk. If you grab a pencil 1&quot; from the eraser end between you thumb and index finger and with your other hand grab the eraser end. Move the pencil shaft back and forth 1/4&quot; while keeping the eraser end still. Note how much the point end is moving around. Now do the same thing but this time grab the pencil 4&quot; from the eraser end. Do the same movement of 1/4&quot; back and forth while keeping the eraser end still. Note how much less the point end swings as compared to the first scenario.

You can see how that as arrow on the string approaches the pivot point, any side to side toque error is magnified the closer the string gets to the pivot point.

Edited by - Black Frog on 01/02/2003 15:34:35

RE: Stupid Question???
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Jeff,

So then is a 30&quot; draw shooter severely handicapped compared to a 26&quot; draw shooter???
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

RE: Stupid Question???
 

I just read somewhere that all the top winning target shooters right now have shorter than average draw lengths. So maybe us little guys do have an advantage after all. I don't know where I read it or how much truth there is to it, most likely on a forum like this one. Maybe that's why women can out shoot men, they shoot a more forgiving set right off the bat( short draw length lower poundages).

Paul

RE: Stupid Question???
 

Blackfrog,

I was always under the impression that the closer you are to pivot point the LESS movement there is. That is why an overdraw - moves the rest AWAY from the pivot point, and reflex designs - move limb pockets AWAY from pivot point both hurt accuracy. I cannot see how having the arrow release closer to the pivot point hurts accuracy.

I am not trying to bang heads with anyone, I am just confused<img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Stupid Question???
 

RA-

I should've clarified my statement a bit more. By pivot point I meant the cradle point where the prongs hold the arrow- which ideally for the most forgiveness would be directly above where your hand rests in the throat of the grip. The farther back the overdraw, the more magnified and riser torque will be. And also the lower the brace height the more magnified the errors will be.

If the prongs cradle the arrow directly over where your hand meets the throat of the grip, that is the position that has little or no movement if you torque the riser.

If the arrow is on the string closer to the pivot point, the more touchy things become as well, like I mentioned in the previous post. Imagine the first Indians making their first experimental bows- I'm sure they learned real quick that a bow with only a 0-1&quot; brace height was REAL tough to shoot. The arrow would still be on the string almost right up to the riser, errr- I mean wood stick. If the approaching string (with the arrow on it) is ANYTHING but perfectly straight, the errors become worse the closer it gets.
Imagine the incoming string was not perfectly straight towards the riser, but with the limbs at full draw the riser is torqued. Even though the contact point of the arrow is directly over your hand, the string will be not be coming directly to that point because of where the limb tips are (at full draw) and the torque applied.


Edited by - Black Frog on 01/02/2003 19:59:32

RE: Stupid Question???
 

BF,

I see your point!!!.

So it is not the amount of time the arrow spends on the string or the distance it moves on the string.

Thanks

RE: Stupid Question???
 

RA,

Some will argue that the distance and time spent on the string also plays into the &quot;forgiveness&quot; equation. The longer the arrow is on the string, whether it be distance (long draw) or time from a lower brace height- the greater the chance that the archer induces errors into the launch of the arrow. What if an archer had an absurd draw length of 40&quot;? During that loooong path of the power stroke (and the time on string) there's more opportunity for something to be torqued or moved as compared to someone with a 25&quot; draw length.

RE: Stupid Question???
 

I learn a lot from this site...it is why I keep coming back.

JeffB and/or Rack Attack: Your arguements make sense but contradict what I have read in several published articles (Peterson's Bowhunting and elsewhere) where the authors state that low brace height accuracy/forgiveness problems are due to the increased time the arrow is on the string. For example, if you have the bad habit of dropping your bow hand, then that problem is magnified when you are shooting a low brace height bow because of the extra movement due to the extra time the arrow is on the string.

Personally, I like your explanations better. Opinions?



HuntingNet Member since Spring 2001

RE: Stupid Question???
 

Mouse,

Thats why I asked the question.

if it is the amount of time that makes it critical than going light and fast should greatly improve the forgiveness of your bow.

here are some examples:

If you take a bow shooting 280ft per second and shorten the brace height by 1&quot; the arrow stays on the string .0003 seconds longer.

If that same bow shooting 280 has an IBO of 330 (bowtech <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>) and you shoot a 350 grn arrow to achieve the 330 fps. That decreases the time the arrow is on the string by .006 seconds.

That lessens the amount the arrow is on the string 20 times more than increasing brace height by 1&quot;.

If the Brace height time theory is correct, that tells me that going with a heavy arrow is much more detrimental to bow forgiveness that decreasing brace height.

This doesn't seem true, that is why I questioned my original opinions on brace height.

Blackfrogs theory makes much more sense to me.

Edited by - Rack-Attack on 01/03/2003 14:48:40