French Tuning
 

I recently discovered a cool tuning method called "French Tuning", which is kind of like walk back tuning but easier. Sight in a pin to hit dead on a small dot at 3yds. Shoot that same pin at 55-60 yds (should be close to dead on at that distance, but use a large target just in case.) If you are left or right, adust your rest to compensate. Repeat until perfect alignment at 3 yds and 60 yds.

RE: French Tuning
 

Same concept.... you've got to walk back to get from 3 to 50 yards. I always alternate between 20 and 60 yards. No reason to start at 3 yards that I can think of, other than your sight will probably be near the same spot, vertically. Besides, I shoot small groups to eliminate shooter error and I wouldn't want to shoot groups at 3 yards.

RE: French Tuning
 

French tuning... what would The Nuge say?!

RE: French Tuning
 

Don't trust anything that says french in the name. My guess it means drop your bow and run in the other direction. LMAO!!! Sorry I can't take credit for this. Aussie Guy came up with that line. But I just had to use it just once. LOL

RE: French Tuning
 

It's a great tuning method, if you can shoot great shots. You should be able to hit a dot the size of pencil eraser at 3 yards, and a group the size of a softball at 65 or so for it to be effective. If you can accomplish this it is a great means of finding centershot for the bow.

RE: French Tuning
 

Ifyou 'walk back' or 'french' tune with field tips, will yourbroadheads hit the same???

RE: French Tuning
 

You and I both know the answer to that is not necessarily. It is a great way to start tuning for dynamic centershot, however there are too many other conditions such as cam/idler lean, spine, nock height, arrow clearance, etc that affect where a fixed blade broadhead will impact as compared to field points.

RE: French Tuning
 

Rick:

You know it and I know it;), but how many on here think that one tuning method will solve their problems? How many truly know that they have a tuned system verses how many think they have a tuned system? How manydon't know that they lose energy/penetration when the 'system' isn't truly right?

Recently had a situation where a new bow would'walk back'and 'french' tune very well, but wouldn't paper tuneworth a darn.With all the tools I have and after changing string and cables, I was really leaning towards a riser problem.As a last resort I switched limbs and the problem was solved.

Further check by the manufacturer revealed that we had a weak side on one limb whichcaused dynamic problems. Bottom line is that the bow shot extremely well and I wouldn't have known thatany problem existed without good old paper tuning. Of course, you have to know how to do it correctly.:D

Good shooting.

RE: French Tuning
 

Start out with dynamic spine testing, then walk-back tune using broadheads and you'll know if you got everything right. If you can get your broadheads to fly perfectly, your field tips should follow suit.

RE: French Tuning
 

that's some serious detective work there len.

RE: French Tuning
 

Quote:

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Recently had a situation where a new bow would'walk back'and 'french' tune very well, but wouldn't paper tuneworth a darn.With all the tools I have and after changing string and cables, I was really leaning towards a riser problem.As a last resort I switched limbs and the problem was solved.

---

Or so I thought the problem solved. When I first shot the bow after replacing the limbs, it 'appeared' to be a lot better; but, as I shot the bowmore, the paper tune 'walked' back to its original position and wouldn't shoot BHs worth a darn - and I'm talking real bad.

I decided today to tear the bow down and do some indepth laser checking and tolerance analysis. I kept telling the manufacturer it was in the riser and they wouldn't believe it. When I switched a few items around and did some rather neat tolerance matching, it all came together.

This thing is now drilling field tips and BHs into the same holes. I will, however, not give the bow to the customer until I have a chance to shoot it more to assure that the problem is now definitely solved.

I know I've spent too much time on this bow but, it's a learning opportunity. I enjoy these sorts of challenges now and then.:D

RE: French Tuning
 

I've been talking about French tuning since I joined this forum in February. I sight in at 4 yds and it's on at 50 at with my current set-up.

My Muzzy's (old full size, not MX3 or MX4) hit the same place as my field tips and the only time I've ever shot through paper with my new bow was to prove that I was tuned right with French tuning.

French is quicker than walk back and to me eliminates unnecessary steps if you can shoot consistent groups at 50 to 55 yds.

Of course, the draw back is that if you do not have a range that goes that far then walk back would be a better choice.

RE: French Tuning
 

Is it possible that youhave missed or overlooked the basis of my posts?

RE: French Tuning
 

No Len.I was simply responding to the original post and yours was before mine. He was talking about French tuning and not paper tuning.

I prefer French over paper and think sometimes people get too caught up in the pretty hole through paper. They rely only on paper and paper is the gospel.There are top ranked competitive shooters that only use French Tuning.

It's possible to have a good hole through paper and still have issues with your rig and there are people that don't believe that. It's also possible to have a bad hole through paper nad have a rig that is perfectly in tune from 10 yds to 100 yds.

Also, you asked if you use walk back or French will your broadheads hit the same. I'm saying yes theydid for me with the older longer Muzzy's.I didn't need to go to the stubby new models at over 290 fps.


On a separate note. I've thought about this all night and still don't know how shooting a softball sized group at 65 yds has anything to do with French tuning. The basis of the method is to take the center of your group at 50 to 55 yds and adjust your rest accordingly after you've sighted in your pin at a close range that is the first point where the arrow crosses the arc of travel. 50 - 55 being the second point. I had just started back into shooting and was lucky to get a pie plate at 50 yds and my set-up is on. As long as you can get a consistent shot the method works.

RE: French Tuning
 

Don't kid yourself, you could do french tuning and still have some serious problems with your set up as well.

Paul

RE: French Tuning
 

No single tuning method works for all people. Period. It's good to know and use a variety of methods.

RE: French Tuning
 

Paul,

What other problems could I have if my arrow flies true and my broadheads hit were my field tips do after French tuning. I see no need to go down any other road. I've gotten better paperbulletholes with that method than just trying to paper tune.

I agree it's good to know other methods. It just seems that paper is relied on way too much as an indication that you are good to go.I used to be in that catagory. Then people have to use expendables or short broadheads or even adjust their sights for their broadheads.

I think people fall into the trap I used to be in. They want to tinker and tinker to make sure their equipment is perfect when it probably was at some point along the time all the tinkering was done.

RE: French Tuning
 

but what i want to know is - so what if serious competitive archers use it - there are guys in podunk hicktown who shoot 10 arrows a year who could beat those guys - right?

RE: French Tuning
 

:D[:-]


Tuning definately has several layers but as my thread don't stop at walk back tuning got into.( http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2020182 )A truely tuned setup should be able to shoot very close to a bullethole.Doesn't meanit is necessary but it is quite possible.Like I have stated MANY times,you should not paper tune but rather you should use paper to check your tune.


As Len was trying to point out,if you french tune or walk back and get your centershot set perfectly and don't have a very good tear(doesn't have to be dead perfect)you probably have issues somewhere.Most of the time the issue is a spine issue or torque but you can see from Len's post that sometimes it can go deeper than that.


Most don't have the time,equipment or know how to fix a problem that goes beyond spine and torque so alot say not to worry about it.

BUT,most high end bows today will have no problem achieving both,a bow that will french tune or walk back to centershot and still have bullet holes in paper,or very close.





Problem is when you attach fixed blade heads to a bow that will not paper when centershot is properly set,you lose forgiveness in that setup.It may shoot fixed head with field points in the back yard or close but you will lack much forgiveness.You may have issues that could potentially become dangerous if something such as a limb is starting to fail.



Let me add this,if I had to choose one method and stick with it,whatever gave me the best centershot would be my choice and I would forget the paper.French tuning probably would be the best as far as only using one method.

I prefer walk back and then group tuning.Paper takes care of itself after I have gotten spine figured out.(barring any issues mechanically)

RE: French Tuning
 

I don't care anything about the French. I don't even eat French fries because of the name, much less tune my bow to frog way. If it wasn't for America, they would all be speaking German... Notice I did capitalize German, but not french. :D:D:D

RE: French Tuning
 

TFOX,

Agreed when it's put that way. Shooting through paper after French tuning is a good indication. The article I got the method from even stated that the guy that wrote the article (Dudley) sometimes shoots through paperafter French tuning.

Right after I bought the bow I tried just paper tuning and was frustrated with not getting a good tear and my Muzzy's showed that when I shot them. I was actually going to buy new broadheads because I had assumed that the larger heads would not fly right at a higher speed.

However, after a few months of shooting I French tuned and then shot through paper with a perfect hole and the Muzzy's fly great.

The original issue was caused by my rustiness from not shooting in a long time. My form was rusty and the holes through paper at that time showed that.

I'm sure I've said that in my posts but never in one continuous thought.

...Deleted by CalHunter... I was stating that I got the method from a competitive shooter not because I though he was superior but because I figured ...Deleted by Calhunter... yourself might respect the source better.

...Deleted by CalHunter...

RE: French Tuning
 

I use to shoot through paper for that reason. Now, I don't even do that. I usually shoot through paper at the beginning of the tuning process, to get my nock height close and that's it. Then I tune for spine and then walk back tune with broadheads. I mix in a few field tips to fine tune nock height. When I get done with that, it doesn't make any sense to shoot through paper. I don't care what the paper says, my broadhead tipped arrows are not going to fly any better.

RE: French Tuning
 

good gravy dave - i can't even tease you a little? haven't seen you in a while and i thought you'd get a chuckle out of that. anyway, i can see how it could be misinterpreted - since it came from me - but it was meant as good natured teasing - if there is such a thing. for real.

RE: French Tuning
 

Teasing doesn't bother me at all. i follow the if you can't take it don't dish it out philosophy. Didn't know you were and take back the thread Nazi comment.

I'll lighten up from here on out. Hunting season is getting too close and life is way too short.

RE: French Tuning
 

me too, it was my attempt at lightening up w/ you.

now we better stop before someone tells us to get a room.

RE: French Tuning
 

Hey guys, get a room!!

RE: French Tuning
 

Sorry, I just couldn't help myself

RE: French Tuning
 

Lee,

Welcome back. Now the forum is going to go to potthough with you here again.

Sorry if it was getting too touchy feely for you.

RE: French Tuning
 

When you shoot 97% foc and 1000 grain arrows,[:o]the paper is definately not nearly as much of an issue but for most of us that don't set up arrows that way,it is more of an issue.:)


Imo,those of us that have lower ke and momentum need our arrows flying as straight as possible to ensure great penetration and a little more forgiving arrow flight.


I also shoot through paper at the very begining of the tuning process but I do it with bare shafts to get the nock close and to check spine.

RE: French Tuning
 

Can you french tune a bare shaft?

Can you french tune a bare shaft with a broadhead?

RE: French Tuning
 

Not sure if you can and really not sure why you would need to.

RE: French Tuning
 

RE: French Tuning
 

NEVER SHOOT A BARE SHAFT WITH A BROAD HEAD!!!!!

Paul

RE: French Tuning
 

If the shaft tunes perfect with a field point then why wouldnt it tune with a broadhead?

RE: French Tuning
 

For one thing a broad head adds a little more length to the set up than a field tip, not much but it does change things. The biggest reason is because the blades on the head add steering to the front of the arrow and counter act the fletching on the back of the arrow. Depending on the head size and design it can make a big difference.

Fixed heads are more sensitive to spine, tuning and form errors because of this. This is why I always suggest lots of FOC and more fletching than you think you need. This makes for a more forgiving set up with fixed blades.

This is why I said above to never shoot fixed blades without fletchings. The steering is now in the front of the arrow, not the back and things can go bad FAST that way.

Its really not that hard to shoot accurately with target tips if you have decent fletching and adequate arrows. Broad head tipped arrows are not nearly as forgiving and need extra attention in set up and tuning. And are more critical of form and shooting technique.

Paul