Porposing? No Resolution?
 

I had a fellow bring a bear TRUTH by the shop a few days ago, and it did something that I have never EVER seen before.

We put a QAD Ultra Hunter on it, we center shot it, bow squared it and shot it. Had a bit of a high flight on release...so we made the adjustments....no change. Made some more....not a thing changed.

This went on for a hour and a half. I eventually had the arrow sitting about 10 degrees upwards....and STILL had a HIGH tear. We shot stiff arrows, weak arrows, and right arrows. Feathers, vanes and blazers. Wasn't a clearance problem like I thought....dunno what it was.]


Any ideas? Tiller heigth was correct...bow was brand new right out of the box. Everything in spec. Was the rest not dropping fast enough? Or was it maybe bouncing back and causing a clearance issue? Thats the only thing I can think of?

RE: Porposing? No Resolution?
 

I run a shop also. Are you shooting the cock feather up or down?? If up is it hiting the top bar?? Did you try and remove the little top bar and see if it changed anything?? Will be interested in what you find out. Good Luck

RE: Porposing? No Resolution?
 

keep us posted.. I'd like to see what you found out.

RE: Porposing? No Resolution?
 

Everything was in spec , did you check string and cable lengths ?
they orient the cam , which effects nock travel

RE: Porposing? No Resolution?
 

I never put those on unless customers specifically ask me to. In this case, we didn't install it (for just that reason). We shot with the index vane up, down and out. Nothing changed. I'm starting to wonder if it might be the bow. I spoke with another fellow who is pretty good at tuning himself, he said he has fiddled with no less than THREE of these bows...and not a single one gave him anything but about a one inch high tear...which is what I got....beats me.....

RE: Porposing? No Resolution?
 

That I did not do. But for a brand new bow, straight out of the box to have strings/cables that are wrong....nah...there would have been a recall. As for twists...the cable and string (to the eye anyway) had about the same amount of twists, those green and orange strings make it pretty easy to tell. I didn't bother to take the thing apart. I've seen some pretty out of spec bows shoot darts.

What really baffles my mind, is that no matter what I did..the bow just did not respond to anything. I have seen one other bow do this before...it was an older Martin with those hybrid TAC cams....and either the limb was warped or an axel bent...but it would tear nothing but right....no matter what we did to it...exact same thing. Nuts...

RE: Porposing? No Resolution?
 

Sounds like it might be a cam timing issue. As mentioned, a slightly over or under rotated cam can cause some pretty funky nock travel and a darn near impossible to tune bow.

Not to insult your intelegence but just asking some of the basic questions.

1) when you measured tiller, did you use the bow string or a string stretched between the axles? Setting an even tiller with the bow string on a single cam bow will yield a bow that is significantly out of tune.

2) Did you change the rest to something like a prong rest to see if it would tune with that? I have never used the QAD rest, however I have had a couple of bows that simply did not like a particular rest. They would tune fine with just about anything else.

RE: Porposing? No Resolution?
 

That'd be my guess, too.

RE: Porposing? No Resolution?
 

Straight out of the box the cam should be in the correct position , Id try a different rest also .

Unfortunately we've all had a bow or 3 that would not tune no matter what we did .

RE: Porposing? No Resolution?
 

We might be having one of those north/south language barrier blocks going on here.... As I understand it (and it might be me calling a "Pop" a "Coke", tiller is the distance between the limb pocket and the string. It just makes certain that the bows limbs are let out the same amount when adjusting the poundage. As it was...this bow was cranked down all the way (set at 60.1#s....and it was a 60# bow). The distances I measured were the same....though I don't recall exactly what they were anymore. That is my understanding of tiller. Now, what you have described...I call axel to axel. Probably just a term mix up on my part...but nobody knows everything...my intelligence is certainly not insulted...I'm always up for learning more...thats why I'm here.

Actually we did not. I did change the prongs themselves, as the QAD comes with two sets, one is an 1/8" higher than the stock one, to allow for bows that have low nock set or low travel or something to that effect. It didn't make any difference. I honestly thought it was a clearance thing...but I'm still not sure...especially after shooting feathers with it. I did have a QAD that bounced back on my Iron Mace...but that same rest is now on my Mathews LX and it works like a charm. I'm vexed.

RE: Porposing? No Resolution?
 

If you have one in the shop put on a QAD LD(which stands for Lock Down). When the rest is triggered it falls and locks level with the shelf of the bow eliminating bounce back. I have this rest and have not had clearence issues. If bounce back is what your thinking is the problem then i would try that rest. Good Luck with whatever you do.

RE: Porposing? No Resolution?
 

Tiller is a relative measurement of the preload on the top as compared to the bottom limb. On a true dual cam bow (not a hybrid and not a single cam) the tiller is measured from the limb pocket to the actual bow string, however on a Hybrid or a single cam, there exists the possiblity that the idler and the cam are not the same diameter (like on the Matthews Apex). For those bows, a string is stretched between the axles on the top and bottom cam and tiller is measured from that reference. When you do this, you may notice that the string does not run parallel to the actual bow string.

The axle to axle (ATA) is the measured length between the centerline of the axles.

I can't speak for the Fred Bear bows, but on most single cams, the tiller is rarely equal when measured to the bow string.

RE: Porposing? No Resolution?
 

I'm with you now redline. Good stuff to know for sure. So in theory, taking oh say a quarter turn out of one or the other limb bolts may well solve the issue? Or should that be negligable? I don't know if this is the issue or not...but its always good to know.

Thanks again.

RE: Porposing? No Resolution?
 

Just as a quick check, draw the bow while watching the sights. If it's out of tiller, it'll pull the sights one way or the other. Really, other than just checking to see if it's relatively close to begin with, I don't even bother measuring tiller any more. I simply adjust the limb bolts until I can draw straight back without the bow pulling the sights off target.

If the sights pull up, the top limb bolt needs backed off, or the bottom tightened, or both. If the sights pull down, loosen the bottom limb bolt or tighten the top one, or both.

After you've got it pulling straight and even, when you've got the bow's limb tension balanced in other words, readjust the nock point and procede with your usual tuning techniques.