Black Frog

Well I picked up my new X-Force. The dealer had ordered two identical 60# versions, one for me and one to sell at the shop. I thought they felt long when I pulled them back at the factory-sent (supposedly) 29" draw. Both measured an AMO draw of 3/4" to 7/8" longer than the stated module.

I had ordered the bow as a 27" AMO draw, and I believe all X-Forces come with 29" modules installed, and then they just include the desired modules with the bow.

So I installed the 27" modules, moved the drawstop peg to the #7, 70% letoff position (#7 is the corresponding position for the 27" mods)and drew it back. I knew immediately it was too long. I don't "guess" at drawlengths, or go by how it feels compared to another one of my bows that I think is X" of draw, or assume that it what the manufacturer says it is.

I measure it.

Cams are aligned with the timing marks, axle length and brace are right on specifcations as well. I put it on my drawing machine and cranked it back until the drawstop peg and the module slot just start to make contact with the cables. This position would be the lowest part of the valley as once you start pulling into the cables the weight would immediately ramp back up.

Here's the bottom cam on the draw machine, the stop is just touching the cable:



Here's the top cam as the module's slot just starts to touch the cable:



And here's the reading on a measured shaft from the throat of the nock:



The target-edge of the Berger hole is VERY close to being on the same vertical line as the deepest point of the grip on the X-Force, so you can see that the true draw of my bow is around 26-1/8+", if not closer to 26-1/4". Add in the 1-3/4" to get to AMO specifications, and your at just about 27-7/8" to 28". And this is for their 27" draw module. hmmmmmm.

But, this thing DOES smoke arrows. I knew I was in trouble on the first shot when my test arrow plowed though my target and through the wall behind it. When I tried to retrieve my arrow- I had to wrestle with it a bit....



Oh well, another hole in the wall in my shop.

So I setup the chrono and a few test arrows, all done with a tied nock and short d-loop with nothing else on the string except for the factory-installed speed nocks and shrink tubing.

At a measured 62#, and let's call it 27-3/4" AMO draw (27" mods installed):

310gr arrow = 315fps (three shot average)
385gr (last years hunting arrow) = 286fps
463gr = 263fps

Now for me with a shorty draw, I've never seen those kind of numbers on my chrono.

But, I would have liked to seen a more accurate representation of their draw modules compared to real-world AMO standards. As it is, I'll have to order the 26" modules from PSE to get to where I need to be at my 27" AMO draw. booooooooo......

Bow was very quiet and nice to shoot. I have test shot a BT Guardian a few times, and while the X-Force is not quite as quiet or shock-free as the Guardian (nothing else is), I had no complaints and thought is was very impressive on the shot for its speed. Comparable to just about any of the other new, shock-free, parallel limbed models out there. You're splitting some hairs if you complain about this bow being loud or vibration-prone. I like how light this bow is. When I shot a Guardian I immediately thought it felt heavy. Not so with this bow- very light.

I had a few absorbing stabilizers laying around and tried a few. X-Ring Deadshot, GK Tranquilzer, and Sims Enhancer. The one that seemed to work the best was the lightest one I had- the Tranquilzer. It removed a touch of resonance from the handle. Very nice indeed.

PSE's speed charts on their website indicate that for 27" draw:

60lb IBO arrow 310
65lb IBO arrow 313

For 28" draw:

60lb IBO arrow 322
65lb IBO arrow 325

Remember I did have a d-loop on the string, so that would account for possibly 3fps? So we are close, maybe 4-5 fps slower than the charts. Not too shabby all things considered. But I wonder about some of the speed claims people are posting for the X-Force at or above the speed charts.

If I hadn't MEASURED the drawlength and just slapped on the supposed-27" modules, then I'd be thinking I was sailing along faster than PSE speeds!

Len in Maryland

315- 62# - 27 3/4"

I wouldtheninterpolate60# - 27 at about 304. Then add 1 fps for D loop (I measure them at5 grains= 1 fps) which will give you 305 fps.

Then if you again interpolate using10 fps per inch, 30" would add 30 fps over 305 and would put you around 335. That's good fora 60# bow.

I thinkthe BowTech Equalizer has advertised advertised speeds similar towhat you gotat 27" DL. Would you mind buying one of them and doing some testing for me???

Good report. Thanks.

ijimmy

Black Frog , many who have shot this bow say the draw is very stout feeling around 10 lbs heavyer than what the scales say , and that it has a "no valley" cam , whats your opinion ?

I know shoot'n a no valley cam with a draw thats too long is a real pain .

Black Frog

Len- funny you mention the BT Equalizer. I played with a friend's EQ which also had their "27 inch" module on it. I measured that to be long as well,just under 27.5" for the bow I tested. And at over 61lbs it sent my 310gr arrow at 301fps. First time my chrono saw numbers over 300fps at shorter drawlengths. It was a nice bow- but it didn't get me to buy one.

When my other X-Force mods come in, I'll set it up for a true 27" AMO draw and get some more numbers. Hopefully early next week.

ijimmy- the speed has to come from somewhere, so yes the draw poundage starts very early in the cycle and goes to aboutthe end with a short valley. Which is why I ordered a 60# version. At 62#, I have no complaints. I don't think I (me personally) would want a 70# for hunting. Sure, I could pull it back, but I doubt people can do it nice and smooth especially on a frigid morning after sitting there in the cold for two hours. I just don't need a 70# bow of this model, or any model for that matter. With the speeds and efficiencies that modern compounds are producing- I have no reason to look past lower-60# ranges. And that's at my short drawlength!

It doesn't have much of a wide valley, and I would think trying to let down a 70# version smoothly in a treestand would be kinda rough- it ramps up quick. But again, that is why I went with a 60# version. I disagree that my 62# bow feels like a 70# version. I find it quite manageable and nice to shoot (so far). I got used to the draw cycle very quickly and never thought about it again until I went to shoot my target bow and how completely different that bow then felt! I let some others shoot the X-Force, and I may have sold one on the spot- they liked it that much and saw the speed numbers I was getting.

The valley isfarily short so if you're a "creeper" this bow can want to take off if you're not paying attention. But I can't say that I ever creep, so I never noticed it. I think creeping forward on the shot may also be a sign that your draw is a little long. Proper draw will let you engage your back muscles at full draw and keep you solid.

I'll reserve accuracy judgements until I get some new arrows made up and put some range time in. Trying to get some groups with a draw that is 3/4" too long for me is kind of pointless at the moment.

Len in Maryland

Todd:

When I look at the ballpark numbers of 301 vs. 304 in a non-head-to-head shot comparison, it's not that far off. Interesting enough for me to try to get both bows side by side to see actually how close they really shoot. If they're that close, then the deciding factor might be comfort, ease of shooting,or smoothness of draw cycle for some to make a decision.

Also, when I checked the DL of one I had in the shop, I got from 1/4 to 3/8 difference in advertised vs. actual DL. The 3/4 to 7/8 is less than I get on PSE's. As I told you originally, I usually get from 3/4 to a little over 1".

Thank you. I enjoy comparing notes.

Black Frog

But that EQ 301fps was 1/2" over 27" AMO and at 61#, and the owner had 'tweaked' itas much as he could with cam rotation and letoff to squeeze the most out if it he could. We are estimating 304-305fps at 60# 27" AMO for my particular X-Force.

I want to tinker with cam timing once my new modules come in. Also want to play around with the speed nock locations to seehow much of a difference that makes.

BUT- I need a different press to work on this bow. Back at Vegas, I ordered the Last Chance Archery EZ Press with stand and tilt option. Very nice timing in that they shipped it out today and I should have it Tues or Wed next week!

Then I can really start to tinker with this thing...

Greg / MO

Hey Todd, your PM box is full by the way!

Here's what I was gonna send you... Don't figure it's anything anyone else can't see...

Thanks for posting your findings on your new baby! Sounds like a great bow, and I know you'll be happy with it!

I just wanted to take a sec to say that I've always enjoyed your posts, and have enjoyed seeing you back a bit more here on HNI lately...

Good shooting!
Greg

Black Frog

Thanks Greg,

My whoops- I haven't checked my inbox totals for some time! It's empty now.

Thanks for the tip!

Shootem up870

this is exactly what i felt when i shot them. i do not like the draw cycle at all, they have absolutely no valley, and they are not even close to forgiving.

if you are just looking for speed then this would be the bow to have, if you want anything else, keep looking.....

of course, this is just my opinion after shooting all of the new bows, which everyone should do before they buy one..

Colorado_Hunter

Hi everyone, I'm new to this board but not archery hunting. I like the fact that there is actually discussion here and not bashing.

I got my X-Force the first week they got to the dealers. My setup is, 64#, 27" dl, d-loop and peep, shooting 250 Maximus Hunters at 353grs. I figure I have well over a 1000 shots thru it. When I firstshotit I would have agreed that the draw cycle was a little harsh. I went to the dealer and shot the 70# bow twice trying to decide between the 70# or ordering a 60#. You get used to the draw cycle very quickly. In the end I went with the 70#. I was also shooting with the dl an inch too long, until the 27" module came in, not a good way to shoot this bow. The draw cycle and valley is MUCH better at the proper dl. I also recomend shooting the 70% letoff. Just a suggestion but for a true test of this bow, make sure you have the correct dl for you, and shoot at least 30 to 40 shots thru it.

I just started shooting 3d two months ago. My first shoot was with my AR Velocity, the next 3 with the X-Force. The last two shoots my scores havewent up80 points. I would credit the improvement at 50% to learning the 3d game and 50% the bow.

This is my opinion and results shooting the X-Force. Everyone likes different bows, that's why there is so many out there. Shoot them all and decide for yourself. Hopefully everyone finds one that works as good for themas the X-Force does for me.