Straightarrow

I had a few ask, so I thought i'd post my method in a post for anyone interested to see.

There are a couple concerns that you have to address, but other than that the proceedure shouldn't be much different than any other arrow. First, note that I'm referring to normal carbon shafts. You can't easily make one from an aluminum shaft, or at least I couldn't figure out how. There are a couple weight-forward shafts on the market and this does not refer to them either.

You will find that you need a much stiffer shaft than normal. The very large weight you will put on the tip will weaken the shaft substanially. In order to get the FOC over 20%, you have to guard against a very weak shaft. To do that, I make sure I figure out the details by bareshaft testing. Fletching them up and then testing for bullet holes is not adequate in my opinion.

I start out with full length shafts. If your shooting 65-70 lbs at over 28" you will need a spine in the .280 - .300 range. You will then have to put approximately 300 grains on the tip. This has to come from the point, insert, insert weights or any adaptors used. It is then best to put feathers on the rear, since they are the lightest and will help raise FOC. There are many ways to get weight on the front, depending on the shaft used. Go to a traditional forum and you can get dozens of ideas.

Once you get ready to build the arrow, you have to bareshaft test one first. It is best if you can spine test them to get the one with the best tolerances. Never bareshaft with a broadhead. Fletch one or two and build one without fletches. I'm not going to explain bareshafting. If you don't know how, there are dozens of good explanations on the web and in this forums archives.

You need to be sure your arrow has enough weight up front to fly weak. You then cut 1/4" off and retest. Do this until it spines perfect. Then you're ready to fletch them all. When doing this for a compound, you can tweak final dynamic spine by raising or lowering draw weight until they spine perfect.

Example of one of my Extreme FOC arrows. Gold Tip Big Game 100 . Muzzy 2-blade broadhead at 200 grains. 100 gr brass insert. 50 gr brass insert weight. FOC approx 21%, total arrow weight approx. 650 grains.

This will vary for everyone depending on their draw length and the bow used. You must be willing to adjust draw weight to the arrow's spine if you don't want to pull your hair out trying to get the perfect dynamic spine.

I hope some give this a try. You won't believe how hard they hit.

bow_hunter44

Thanks for the info straightarrow

ijimmy

Thanks for the info Straightarrow , Im putting it to use after reading Dr Ashby's paper , and anticipating an elk hunt this year . Last nite I started by geting a set of old acc's up to around 13.5 foc . I have been shooting around 10 - 11 for years .

Shooting that heavy of an arrow must realy quiet your bow down , the only drawback I can see is the noise the feathers make in comparison to vanes , when going for a light nock end of the arrow

Straightarrow

Actually, once you have the arrow down to the 200-220 fps range feathers really don't make much noise. After you shoot them a bit and get them "fuzzed up", they become even more quiet. I don't find fletching noise to be an issue at all. Besides, your bow will be so much more quiet, the arrows almost there before they have a chance of hearing anything.

davidmil

And just WHY do you think you need a FOC of 20? And what will my gain say over a 12-14 FOC be. I think you're trying to reinvent something that doesn't need reinventing.[8D] What are you trying to kill, Dodges or Chevys.

Straightarrow

I don't think I need an FOC of 20%. However, I do think it is an advantage. Ever since I read Ashby's studies on extreme FOC and the increased penetration they give you, I was intrigued. I wanted to try them. It wasn't until after I made them, that Ashby came out with his "bone breaking" threshold theory of 650 grains. These by coincidence, were in that range.

So far, I've had two hits on very large game, that have convinced me that these arrows really do have significantly greater hitting power. I prefer that extra insurance if I hit a shoulder or other larger boned area of the animals I'm hunting. Not that I needed a lot of convincing. Ashby's studies are very well done.

I seldom try to invent anything. I usually study what others have done and then figure out what seems to fit best for me. Oh, if I wanted to hunt cars, I'd probably use a setup that was proven on steel barrels. Lots of people seem to like hunting them.

The extreme FOC arrows also bring other advantages. With these I find my broadheads very stable. In wind, they seem to fly as normal. With the weight on the tip, you get less deflection if they nip a twig or hit some long grasses. I tend to hunt in some pretty thick stuff, and you don't always notice a twig in the flight path. My recommendation is to try an extreme FOC arrow before knocking them.

ijimmy

Thanks for the info Straightarrow , Im going to put it to use . My curent setup is shooting around 270 with a 375 grain arrow . I killed a couple deer last year under 20 yards , and had a doe duck an arrow at 35 , I usealy dont shoot that far at an animal but everything was perfect and I made a perfect shot , with my followthru I saw the deer drop what looked to be 2 feet before the arrow got to her , she was calm with her head down eating accorns . Im pretty sure it was arrow noise as my bows quiet , but I had new feathers on the arrows and new ones do make a buzzing noise . Ive been trying vanes , but I hate the things , so a slower heavyer arrow may make me happy . The arrows Ive come up with are 28 inch 2314's with feathers and a 160 head for arround 550 grains , should make a differace in noise allaround .

BobCo19-65

Thanks Straight Arrow.

This year I am going to try some tapered carbon arrows with my longbow. I have the shafts already but have not made the arrows up yet. Anyway, I plan on using a 70 grain brass front insert, and I have some 220 grain muzzy's that I'm going to try upfront. I'll have to actually calculate the FOC after they have been made. Should be interesting.

Straightarrow

Bob, I'm curious about the tapered shafts. When you get them built, I'd appreaciate if you made a post on what the FOC turns out to be.

I have a long bow and a recurve. I made extreme FOC arrows for both of those also. With the longbow, 55 @28", I ended up with 32" GT 7595s with 270 grains on the tip. They ended up at about 570 grains. They fly beautifully, much to my surprise. With this bow, I had been shooting 2117 with about 160 gr on the tip. Using the carbons, I ended up with a slightly lighter weight arrow, but a much higher FOC.

AllenRead

StraightArrow,

Thanks for the FOC information.

Between your experience and Ashby's research, do you think that very high FOC is better than normal FOC (10% to 15%) but with the same total weight?

The reason that I ask is that it seems easier to use weight tubes to increase weight that to useinserts and heavy broadheads. There are not many heavy screw in broadheads (200 gr & above) available. The muzzy is about the only one.

Thanks,
Allen