OHbowhntr

Is it really worth it??? I went to shoot last night, and a guy trying to be nice, offered some assistance with my bow. Some of it was good, so maybe a little iffy. He had a press, so he re-timed my cams throwing a few extra twists here and there, which I really appreciated, then he was trying to get me to paper tune my bow. Not really a good idea, especially because I was shooting down a little bit, so I was consistenty getting bad tears, he goes and moves my nock point about half an inch up, and finally I said, "STOP!!!" I told him I appreciated him getting my bow back in tune, with the cams, but the knock point was fine. Then he's mad and says "Well if you don't want my help..." (Like aspoiled woman who just got insulted because someone told her she was wrong.) I came in there shooting 1.5 - 2" groups at 24 yds, and left scrambling to get my bow back on the 12" target at 20 yds. I don't really believe paper tuning is that important,and I think you can find better ways to tune that don't require an archer to hold a bow perfectly level and shoot it through paper. By the time he was finished, I was shooting 2 FEET LOW at 20 yds, before I moved the nock back!!!! He then was mad because I moved the nock, and wanted totry to re-adjust it for me again. Which I wasn't about to let happen. So I re-adjusted everything closer to where I'd had it and was back on the 8 ring within 5 minutesbefore they closed. So how to to say thanks but no thanks???

PABowhntr

I will be honest. I had a bit of trouble following your post. If you are asking whether or not paper tuning is worth it then my answer would be "yes" and "no".

Yes, papertuning can serve as a very beneficial tool in helping determine how your arrow is coming out of the bow. Appropriate adjustment can always be made to help improve arrow flight and accuracy as a result of it.

No, papertuning is not the "be all...end all" to bow tuning. Though it can be useful as mentioned above there are other methods such as group tuning which can be just as beneficial.

It has been my experience that utilizing one, the other or both really boils down to how well tuned you want your bow and how much time and effort you have to invest in doing it.

The gentleman in question may have been entirely correct in moving your nockset. Was your nockset level after he made adjustments to the cams? Did he synch the cams with one another or did he attempt to do more advanced tuning? If you were consistantly getting a tear that warranted moving your nock then his adjustment may have been entirely appropriate.

If you were hitting a foot low after his nockset adjustment but were getting good paper tuning results then had you considered just moving the sight?

Just some things to think about.

Welcome to the forum by the way.

OHbowhntr

Thanks for the welcome. As to where was the nock-set, it was level and square, and he moved it that high above level, and was trying to tell me that I need to keep it wherehe set it after paper-tuning. I move it back where it was before, and got everything back close to where I started. He did sync my cams up better, and I told him I appreciated that, but then he was made because I told him I didn't agree with the nock movement. I shoot 270's on a 30 target 3D course, so I'm not a horrible shot by any means, and I didn't have the bow that far out of sync or tune that the nock point should have needed to be moved half an inch above level. Actually about 5/8" because I had it set 1/8th above square making my arrows square on the string and rest.

Dave_G

IMO, both bare shaft and paper tuning are the two most valuable tools to acquire a properly tuned BOW, ARROW, and SHOOTER. These two methods will show all kinds of imperfections in the entire system - poorly tuned bow, improper arrow, and shooting form flaws.

If you expect to shoot same point of impact for both field points and fixed blade broadheads, then I'd advise getting your bow to shoot bare shafts perfectly straight at 10 yards, and then paper tuning a fletched shaft at ranges from 8 feet to 20 yards.

One final point...don't automatically suspect the bow and start making changes if you're not getting the results you expect during bare shaft or paper tuning. Make sure your arrows are spined for your draw length/draw weight, and don't be afraid to have someone else shoot a few bare shafts or paper tune your bow in addition to yourself. Someone else shooting your bow and getting better results than you may indicate some form flaws in your shooting.

Paul L Mohr

For indoor target shooting at known distances with adequate fletching it means nothing. Probably can't hurt, but simply paper tuning your bow will not win you a match. Unless maybe it boosted your confidence or something.

Aiming technique and form are the two most important things for accurate archery, next or pretty much on the same level would be quality well matched arrows.

Some of the best indoor scores ever shot were with out of time cams and bows that would not paper tune worth a flip. It wasn't even a well known tuning method at the time.

Give a top archer a poorly tuned bow and I bet he still shoots great. Give a poor archer a perfectly tuned bow and I bet he still sucks. Give that same archer a 200 dollar entry level bow and a months worth of lessons and I bet he almost doubles his accuracy. The most important piece of equipment in archery is YOU.

I am a fan of bareshaft tuning though and striving to get the best spine you can. And tuning becomes that much more important as the distance increases or when you decide to throw a fixed blade on that arrow.

Paper tuning is sort of iffy to me. You really have to pay attention to what you are doing because so many things can effect it, like grip, form and follow through. The same can be said with any type of tuning though. It is a great way to find out what the arrow is doing right off the bow however. Most can eyeball this though.

Like I said, for target shooting I like bareshaft tuning. If I can get my unfletched arrows to hit the same spot my fletched arrows do at 20 or 30 yards I am pretty confident things are where they need to be.

Just my opinion though.

Paul

PABowhntr

OH,

You received some excellent advise above. I am not there with you so I cannot really say for sure what might be the issue with your setup. I am somewhat familiar with the bow you are using at least in terms of the cam design. Raising the nock that much above level in order to achieve a perfect bullet hole with papertuning would suggest to me that there are other issues at work here. The previously mentioned bare shaft tuning might help to eliminate some variables as would several other suggestions.

I see you added some equipment info to your post. I am not familiar with that NAP rest model. Is it a drop away, prong or full containment style rest? What size carbons are you utilizing? What is your point weight?

OHbowhntr

The arrow is perfect on FOC, spine is right, the NAP QT 2100 is one of their new drop-aways that came out last year, and with the rest up, the nock point was at least half an inch high, maybe higher. What he was doing by raising the nock point so high was creating a clearance problem. The arrow, even at full draw, looked like it was aimed down a few degrees, rather than level. Once I put things back, I got my groups back to 2.5 - 3 inches at about 22yds, even as ticked as I was. No correct changes on a bow should make the point of impact drop more than 2 ft over a mere 20yd distance.

I learned from about walk-back tuning from a pro about five years ago, and that has been my exclusive form of tuning, because it's easy if you are patient. I shoot Fixed blade BH's right with my FP's out to 50yds, and practice out as far as 60 on a relatively regular basis. Walk-back is how I'll get the bow back in order, andI won't let that paper near my stuff again. I have tried bare shafts a couple times in the past couple years, and that certainly will tell you you have more work to do, but I really couldn't read what was wrong as well bare-shaft tuning, as I can walking it back. When I shot earlier in the week, I was keeping 3-4" groupings out to 40yds. Now I will be backto the drawing board getting things in order. Since I moved the site around and didn't get a chance to shoot much. It's too damned cold to shoot hear right now, as my targets are nearly frozen, I'll just have to wait a bit. Fortunately, hunting season is over, or had it not been, he'd have never been allowed to touch my bow.

I suppose I should chalk it up to the "Lessons Learned" column. Thanks for the feedback it's much appreciated.

muzzyman88

Personally, I don't like to put a lot of weight in paper tuning. I use it for one purpose and one purpose only. Setting my vertical nock height. I try to get my left to right decent. But I don't concern myself too much with it.

When I setup a new bow, I use paper tuning, in combination with checking for fletch contact on the rest. If I can eliminate the vertical tear, but have a slight left or right, I'm happy and put the paper away. I then go to walk back tuning to get it where it should be.

If you stated that your spine is correct for your bow, then don't overly concern yourself with paper. Too many variables go into what type of tear you get. Torque on the handle will throw everything out of whack from shot to shot. But, its more difficult to induce a vertical tear up or down into a shot.

TEmbry

it sure has me confused! i think i made a mistake by messing with it. i had my bow hitting dimes (not litterally) and when i shot through paper it showed a bad arrow flight. so i tinkered with rest and nock until i am where i am now. bow shooting about 1 1/2 ft off but still tight groups, and NO improvement in the angle of the arrow.im gunna give one last stab at it, after that im going back to where it was, right decision or not. Im in over my head when it comes to tuning, i know everything else on the bow is in tune, just cant get it to paper tune right.

PABowhntr

Again, some great advice above and I think you already have determined how much weight you are going to put on any specific type of tuning. Good luck with your setup and let us know how further tuning goes once you have the opportunity to go out and practice it.