Yes, another form thread.
 

Now that I have the new bow, there are no excuses left and I may have to realize I am to blame for bad shooting.[8D]. So since it is the off-season, I have the time needed to change my form around. I am open to any comments and suggestions you guys have. And mods, if this belongs in the Tech forum, move it, you wont hurt my feelings.:(. Thanks for any input you may have.

RE: Yes, another form thread.
 

RE: Yes, another form thread.
 

The first thing that jumps out at me is the release is a MILE too long.You should be able to wrap your finger over the trigger without reaching for it.How in the world can you even reach it.Changing or shortening the release will help your shooting probably more than anything else at this point.

Second is the chin.Hold your head up and relax.You will have to move your peep but that will be beneficial.

1 more thing,relax the fingers.See how stiff they are.As a matter of fact,relax your whole body.

RE: Yes, another form thread.
 

Thanks, do you think that the long release could have something to do with how I tend to punch the trigger? I am able to overcome the urge, but I still find my self doing it. I will work on the other things you mentioned tomorrow.

RE: Yes, another form thread.
 

I would say yes.

If you're having to reach in order to squeeze the trigger you're more likely to punch it instead of squeeze.

RE: Yes, another form thread.
 

There is no way to use any kind of squeezing or especially back tension with that release.Punching is another subject all in it's own buta new release definately won't hurt and most likely will help with it.

RE: Yes, another form thread.
 

I agree with the release comment. The more reaching you have to do, the more movement your going to get out of your body/bow.

It is also hard to see from the picture, but I would make sure you have a GREAT anchor. Anchor in the same spot, the same way everytime. The biggest thing in archery is consistancy. Doing the exact same thing everytime all the time.

Some may argue this, but I truely believe that archery is:
5% equiptment
5% form
90% mental

That is basically what backtension is. Training your body & mindto do the exact same thing everytime. If one isn't there, your release shouldn't go off.

RE: Yes, another form thread.
 

I tend to stay away from "how's my form" threads because unless you have all the views needed, they can be a little misleading.

The best view is looking straight down on top of you at full draw. This can be done with a long mirror on an angle mounted above you and the camera looking up at the mirror behind you. Not the easiest to do, but IMO gives the most important form view. That view along with side and rear views can give an overall picture of what's going on.

Having said that, I will say that I don't ever like to see a drawing forearm that is angled below parallel with the arrow shaft. Either parallel with the arrow shaft or above seems to work well, but when your forearm is below the arrow shaft (like yours) it usually indicates the draw (or release) is set too long.

RE: Yes, another form thread.
 

Agree with black frog.

But, the release is too long. It's a starting point.

RE: Yes, another form thread.
 

You are almost 100% incorrect!!!!:D

More like this
85% form
10% mental
5% Equipment

Equipment had nothing to do with it. True, you need equipment that fits, but as long as you have a bow that fits, it doesnt really matter what you are shooting.
The mental game is an issue, but if you pratice your form, shooting should become second nature. The more and more that you practice with proper form, the more instinctive shooting will become. Hence, the less the mental game will have an effect on your shooting. So, for someone who practices their form alot, the mental game is not an issue.
Form is where it is all at. Bad form and you will never be a good shooter. The more the practice with proper form the better you will shoot. Form is the basis of archery. You can have the best mental game in the world, but if your form stinks, you will always stink. Think about it, you can be the worlds best golfer in your head, but if you cant swing a club, you cant score at all. This is the reason I say form is pretty much everything in archery. Lousy form=Lousy groups.
That said, here is my critique of your form, based on your photo and my coaching sessions. I should note, I am no expert, but after watching myself shoot on video and hearing what my coach has to say, I think I can offer up some advice.

1. Relax them fingers...tension in the hand will lead to torque once you hit the trigger on that release.
2. Hard to tell from the angle you gave us, but I think your left shoulder needs to drop down a little. You want a gap between that shoulder and the plane of the arrow.
3. Get your right elbow up a little more. This will allow you to use your backtension to release the trigger. Remember, it is your back muscles that should fire the trigger, not your finger. Place your finger on the trigger, the move your right elbow in towards your opposite shoulder. The trigger will fire, most likely when you dont expect it.
4. Pay attention to your follow through.

My advice...get a coach and work with him. I did, and my shooting form and accuracy had increased dramatically and I have only been working with him for a month and a half.

RE: Yes, another form thread.
 

i think i have to disagree with most of you as far as form goes (except zubba). personally, i believe that form is not as big of a factor in terms of accuracy. doing the same thing every time you shoot is what helps accuracy. this is where i think some people are mislead. consistency is the key. what is comfortable for one person may not be the best for the other. just make sure every shot is the same and you will be fine for form.

i however, agree the release is too long. also make sure not to drop your bow arm when you shoot.

RE: Yes, another form thread.
 

True to a point. But for *most* people, good form AIDS in being consistent. Sure, I've seen some people shoot lights-out with what I consider to be really poor form. But those are very few and far between.

Having good form allows the archer to be more repeatable (consisnent). And that consistency will in turn lead to being more accurate. But hey, if you can do the same thing the SAME way everytime- it won't matter if you shoot behind your back standing on one foot.

As I mentioned in my first post, the original poster's forearm is at slightly downward angle. That downward angle is the forearm/elbow/shoulder that is pulling on the string. And pulling at the rear of the arrow shaft. Any differences here from shot-to-shot are really going to show up downrange.

If the forearm were pulling straight back (or elbow slightly high), the likelyhood of doing it the same way everytime is greater than if the arm is down like it is. Sure it may be comfortable as is, but is it CONSISTENTLY repeatable? Possibly for a select few, but doubtful.

And I'll have to disagree with the post that said that the mental game is less important as you become an accomplished shooter. Once you are in big tournaments, it is CRUNCH time. Unbelievable pressure. If you don't have your mental game in order- all can be lost very quickly. Top archers are always working on their mental game. Ever watch a big shootoff at the top level? Every once and a while you'll see some major chokes. The mental game wasn't there. Ever been in a shoot-off for top honors with hundreds of people watching? It can be very humbling if you're not prepared mentally.

You could be the best archer in the world during practice. But when the HEAT IS ON, and it really counts for score, for cash, for big buck, whatever- that's when the mental game is *huge*. Many people tell me that they can shoot good scores in practice, but during a tournament they shoot lousy. That's alllll mental aspects of the game.It is a very large portion of what archery is.

RE: Yes, another form thread.
 

That is where form is the most important. You state that that being able to repeat what you do everytime is what makes you accurate. This is FORM! Using proper form, you use the muscle groups which are most likely to be able to consistently repeat an action. Bad form often means you are using muscle groups that are less likely to repeat, or memorize, an action. It al;so mightmean your muscles have memorized bad form. This is why you want you use back tension when you shoot. No back tension means that you will not be using the muscle groups that have the best "memory", hence, less consistency. It also means you will become fatigued much much faster.
Look at the whole trigger punching issue. The reason people punch the trigger is because they are not sure when it will go off. This is due to bad form and not having the proper back tension. Proper form, if practicedm will increase muscle memory, which equals consistency.
Think of it as a logic formula
If consistency=accuracy, and muscle memory=consistency, then consistency must equal muscle memory. The best muscle memory comes from proper form.:eek:

RE: Yes, another form thread.
 

Very well put IMO.

RE: Yes, another form thread.
 

Without actually seeing you shoot, here is my view on it.

Your grip is wrong, and forced open. Your hand should be relaxed, just let your fingers fall on the riser naturally. Your grip is also too deep. Move it out to the pad of your thumb and rotate your hand so your bottom fingers come out away from the riser. Normally setting your grip so your fingers are at a 45 degree angle to the riser works well. I actually shoot with mine closer to 90 degrees.

Your are leaning your head in to the string. Your peep may be located wrong, or some other problem like draw length or improper anchor.

Your release hand is too far back, either too long of a draw length and/or too long of a release.

You are leaning back away from the bow, another indication of too long of a draw length or release. However sometimes it is just bad form.

It's hard to tell much else with that big thick shirt on.

You should be able to stand straight up with your head erect and draw the bow. Hips, torso and head should all be lined up. You should draw the bow to your anchor, not draw the bow and adjust your head to make it right. Hold your head up level and look at your target. Now close your eyes and draw the bow to your anchor without moving your head. Open your eyes, your peep should be lined up with your eye or really close. If it isn't something is wrong. Most people do not have thier peeps located properly though.

Everything should be comfortable to do and repeatable. If it isn't it should be changed.

If it makes you feel any better, your form is pretty typical of what I see and not horrible. I have seen MUCH worse!

Borrow someones hand held release and draw your bow string to your nose with your eyes closed (don't try and look thru the peep, that will mess you all up!). I think you will find it feels better. It will feel strange at first, but after a few times I bet it feels better.

You don't need to get a hand held release, but it will show what we are talking about when we say your release is too long.

Just my opinions anyway.

I didn't read all the posts, but I think I saw someone suggest a coach. I agree. If you want help with form, get a coach or a few lessons. Just like golf, it really helps to have someone watch you shoot to see what you do wrong or if you can repeat it from shot to shot.

Paul

RE: Yes, another form thread.
 

Thanks for all the replys, I went out and got a new Scott Little Gooserelease today. I definately noticed how much easier to touch the trigger. I also adjusted my grip to holding the bow in the pad of my thumb, and my fingers curl back and barely touch the grip(I copied a grip I saw in one of TFOX's posts). I had my peep adjusted to help my head look more upright, so things are starting to look better. Thanks again for the help, now its time for the practice to begin.

RE: Yes, another form thread.
 

i am very proud of you zdeer. you know when to listen.

RE: Yes, another form thread.
 

Well after today I dont know whether to thank you guys, or ask for $ [8D]. I got this robin hood at 20 yards on my 3rd shot. I think its time to shoot at a different spot now. And this means another trip to Gander to buy some more Gold Tips.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f288/zdeerslayer/IMG_1307.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f288/zdeerslayer/IMG_1308.jpg

RE: Yes, another form thread.
 

Congrats on the robinhood!

Last time I shot groups I started tearing vanes off my arrows. Considering my FMJs are more expensive than my old GT's, I decided to start shooting seperate spots.

RE: Yes, another form thread.
 

Z!! Great to see! That's why I love this place!!!

RE: Yes, another form thread.
 

Thanks for all the help guys.

RE: Yes, another form thread.
 

First thing I noticed in your pics is that you may be a touch long on draw length. Try shortening it a 1/2 inch. Your draw elbow looks to be angled slightly toward the floor. Not much, just a little. I can shoot an honest 28 1/2 off a string loop but feel more comfortable at 28.

As for form and accuracy. Talk to any good shooter, especially target shooters and they will tell you that consistant form is #1 to accuracy. The catch is the fact that you must find a combination of draw length, anchor and grip that is very comfortable to you. If you can find this, you will find it much easier to repeat this form. If something is out of whack, you'll notice it almost immediately because it just feels funny. A little trick to help you find this repeatable form is to stand at the line using a comfortable stance, head up and looking toward the target. Now close your eyes and draw the bow, settle in to your anchor.Open your eyes. Does everything just fall into place without you have to move anything? If not, you're probably not where you need to be. I can do this same thing, open my eyes and my peep is already aligned to my sight. It really helps, try it.

RE: Yes, another form thread.
 

This is one of the most accurate summaries I have read on here in a while.

I posted very much the same thing in the past but many think they can just practice there way into being a great shot.


No matter how much you practice with "bad form" you will only get to be so good,the little extra it takes to be great will take PERFECT practice and a mental game out of this world.Anyone wishing to achieve another level will almost have to have a coach.Even Tiger Woods has a coach.;)