Bare Shaft vs. Paper Tune, Arrow Flight HELP!
12-01-2002, 10:26 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: O\'Fallon MO O\'Fallon, MO
Posts: 95
Bare Shaft vs. Paper Tune, Arrow Flight HELP!
I am a little concerned. I was drilling arrows consistently for the past few weeks. I thought my setup was perfect. I then read the Easton arrow tuning book I got in the mail. So I went out into the garage & shaved off 3 arrows’ feathers, set my bag @ 15 yards & blasted away. To my surprise my bare shaft was left 6”. If I moved the bag to 20 yards it got worse!
I proceeded to adjust my Bodoodle Pro-Lite rest’s plunger (tine assembly) tension, to the point where now I can’t make it any softer of the arrow weight will push it down @ full draw. I am still left, about 4-5” now, but still left (stiff) by Easton’s tuning guide. Would MZE rest help or worsen the issue?
The guy who set my bow up @ the shop shot at least 10 arrows through paper & it was perfect. When I tried I always had the tip point to the right of where the feathers tore. I think a left tear? He said I was torqueing the bow & would need to cont. to practice.
Would my torqueing of the bow cause this fishtailing & bare arrows to hit left of my fletched arrows aiming point. Yes fishtailing also, my bare shafted arrows always entered the bag with the nock to the right of the tips entry point. After I was disgusted with my bare shaft attempts, I nocked up three fletched arrows & @ 15 yards all three shafts were touching, even shaved off some feathers. With fletched arrows they always hit my mark, & entered squarely.
Shooting a BK II, 71 lbs, 30” draw, Easton 3-60 acc’s @ 28.5” w/ 75 grain tips, 2 7/8” feathers.
PS: I had a couple of 28” 3-49’s around so I shaved off their vanes. They were also left & fishtailed, but only about 2-3” left. I am hoping that means it is my torqueing of the bow, & not the setup. Shooting into a yellow hammer target, it sucks for high speed bows, I am getting one of the,” The Block ” wall system targets for Christmas.
Good judgment comes from years of bad judgment.
I proceeded to adjust my Bodoodle Pro-Lite rest’s plunger (tine assembly) tension, to the point where now I can’t make it any softer of the arrow weight will push it down @ full draw. I am still left, about 4-5” now, but still left (stiff) by Easton’s tuning guide. Would MZE rest help or worsen the issue?
The guy who set my bow up @ the shop shot at least 10 arrows through paper & it was perfect. When I tried I always had the tip point to the right of where the feathers tore. I think a left tear? He said I was torqueing the bow & would need to cont. to practice.
Would my torqueing of the bow cause this fishtailing & bare arrows to hit left of my fletched arrows aiming point. Yes fishtailing also, my bare shafted arrows always entered the bag with the nock to the right of the tips entry point. After I was disgusted with my bare shaft attempts, I nocked up three fletched arrows & @ 15 yards all three shafts were touching, even shaved off some feathers. With fletched arrows they always hit my mark, & entered squarely.
Shooting a BK II, 71 lbs, 30” draw, Easton 3-60 acc’s @ 28.5” w/ 75 grain tips, 2 7/8” feathers.
PS: I had a couple of 28” 3-49’s around so I shaved off their vanes. They were also left & fishtailed, but only about 2-3” left. I am hoping that means it is my torqueing of the bow, & not the setup. Shooting into a yellow hammer target, it sucks for high speed bows, I am getting one of the,” The Block ” wall system targets for Christmas.
Good judgment comes from years of bad judgment.
12-02-2002, 12:15 AM
#2
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Sheboygan WI USA
Posts: 255
RE: Bare Shaft vs. Paper Tune, Arrow Flight HELP!
This may sound obvious...but instead of adjusting tension (plunger, or tine) why not simply move the eniter rest to the right.
Paper tuning (IMHO) is for airplanes. Arrows wiggle a bit when you shoot them. a "perfect tear" doesn't mean perfect flight.
I prefer to just shoot broadheads along with field points for tuning. When you get both to hit the same place, your bow if tuned.
Paper tuning (IMHO) is for airplanes. Arrows wiggle a bit when you shoot them. a "perfect tear" doesn't mean perfect flight.
I prefer to just shoot broadheads along with field points for tuning. When you get both to hit the same place, your bow if tuned.
12-02-2002, 12:42 AM
#3
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: O\'Fallon MO O\'Fallon, MO
Posts: 95
RE: Bare Shaft vs. Paper Tune, Arrow Flight HELP!
Even if I moved the rest, I would still have that 3-4" target impact differance between the bare shaft & the fletched shaft, and I would still have the bare shaft fishtailing & entering the bag with the nock to right of the tip entry hole.
The Easton tuning guide said that a bare shaft & a fletched shaft should impact the target the same way & @ the same spot if the arrow is spined correctly, & if the bow is tunned correctly.
I can't belive that a 28.5" 3-60 ACC is too stiff for such a high energy bow. But if I am reading the guide correctly they are saying that if the bare sgaft arrow hits to the left of your fletched arrows, which is what is happening, & if you can't adjust out with the plunger tenstion, or bow weight, or tip weight, that arrow may be too stiff. I can't belive I should shoot 3-49's.
Good judgment comes from years of bad judgment.
The Easton tuning guide said that a bare shaft & a fletched shaft should impact the target the same way & @ the same spot if the arrow is spined correctly, & if the bow is tunned correctly.
I can't belive that a 28.5" 3-60 ACC is too stiff for such a high energy bow. But if I am reading the guide correctly they are saying that if the bare sgaft arrow hits to the left of your fletched arrows, which is what is happening, & if you can't adjust out with the plunger tenstion, or bow weight, or tip weight, that arrow may be too stiff. I can't belive I should shoot 3-49's.
Good judgment comes from years of bad judgment.
12-02-2002, 04:42 AM
#4
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: .. NH USA
Posts: 970
RE: Bare Shaft vs. Paper Tune, Arrow Flight HELP!
I'm not much of a fan of bare-shaft tuning. My thinking is that you do not shoot your arrows without vanes after you are done tuning, then it doesn't help much!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> The weight and length, helical, and/or offset will alter the arrow tune anyway as far as overall weight, FOC, and stiffness are concerned, so bare-shafting is a moot point. You are better off tuning to field points and broadheads with arrows that are fletched, IMHO. I can get field points to group with broadheads on most setups, provided the arrow configurations are not all that different. If they are, then not all will group together with a "correct" tune. Again, different spines, weight, and foc, along with vane weight and length and degree of helical will affect this.
If your Pro-shop tech shot perfect holes with your setup, and you are getting left tears consistently, then one of you was torquing the bow. I would suggest another trip back and ask him to show you hold to hold the bow correctly. If his method doesn't produce a good "feel" to you or the results you are looking for, then you must ask him to help you tune your setup to the way YOU shoot. If you are really "hogging" the bow, nothing much can be done to remedy this with arrow tune, but if you only have a subtle induced pressure it can normally be taken out as everyone is different and has different form and physical structure, that is why one person can shoot holes and another cannot.(within reason, of course) Group tuning will also help immensely, most people spend far too much time in front of the paper looking for the "perfect tear", when it should only be used as a "starting point" to roughly get you somewhat close when starting your group-tune procedure. All other tuning should be done at distance, and fine "supertuning" done in the same manner also. (if you have a twin cam) Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
If your Pro-shop tech shot perfect holes with your setup, and you are getting left tears consistently, then one of you was torquing the bow. I would suggest another trip back and ask him to show you hold to hold the bow correctly. If his method doesn't produce a good "feel" to you or the results you are looking for, then you must ask him to help you tune your setup to the way YOU shoot. If you are really "hogging" the bow, nothing much can be done to remedy this with arrow tune, but if you only have a subtle induced pressure it can normally be taken out as everyone is different and has different form and physical structure, that is why one person can shoot holes and another cannot.(within reason, of course) Group tuning will also help immensely, most people spend far too much time in front of the paper looking for the "perfect tear", when it should only be used as a "starting point" to roughly get you somewhat close when starting your group-tune procedure. All other tuning should be done at distance, and fine "supertuning" done in the same manner also. (if you have a twin cam) Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
12-02-2002, 07:29 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: WEST PALM FLORIDA
Posts: 2,890
RE: Bare Shaft vs. Paper Tune, Arrow Flight HELP!
Another bane to bareshaft tuneing is bent arrows , I found this out last night . I am haveing a hell of a time getting my darton mavrick express tuned my first problem was a lose arrow rest . Fixed that . Next I tryed bare shaft tuneing and could not get it right so I go inside and try and eye my center shot , lineing up the cams and looking down the bare shaft I was shooting I notice a good bend in the arrow . Check to make sure the bare shafts you have been shooting are not bent . Im shooting 65 lbs 28" and beman matrix 400's with 100 grain tips . that arrow is similar in construction to the acc's you are shooting [ carbon plus aluminum ] . They will bend .I am going to tune with feild points and broadheads from now on forget the paper and bare shaft .
If information provided by the members of this board have helped you please let us know .
If information provided by the members of this board have helped you please let us know .
12-02-2002, 05:10 PM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Havertown PA USA
Posts: 232
RE: Bare Shaft vs. Paper Tune, Arrow Flight HELP!
AB,I haven't paper tuned any of my bows in 4-5 years. I rely on Bare Shaft tuning,horizontal & vertical and group tuning. I don't think you can rely on one type of tuning to achieve good arrow flight.The B/S tuning tells me my nocking point and spine. I have a friend who shoots in the 270-280 range that can't B/S. I believe he torques the bow but he does has real good groups out to 50-60yds. My process is cheching for clearence first. (1)B/S tune out to 20 yds.(nocking point and spine)(2)short distance horizontal& vertical tuning-20-30yds. (center shot and nocking point) And finally long distance group tuning. to 40-50 yds. Usually I can screw on my broadheads and they will group with my fletched,B/S arrow after I'm done. It's not a perfect world and it dosen't always go that way but I try to keep to this process. That Easton tuning guide is my bases for this process and I have found this way is quick and most through way to tune my bows. Don't get too crazy with the B/S untill. Get it close and go to the next method. When you done you can go back and check the B/S out to 30 yds. Hpoe this has helped. JERRY
12-03-2002, 08:18 AM
#8
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: O\'Fallon MO O\'Fallon, MO
Posts: 95
RE: Bare Shaft vs. Paper Tune, Arrow Flight HELP!
SO am I getting this correct, don't worry about bare shaft, don't worry about paper tune, just shoot & group???
What about all you guys talking about paper tuning out to 20 yards, where are you???
Where are all the people saying, "I like to have my bow super tuned, or mico tuned." <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>
Good judgment comes from years of bad judgment.
What about all you guys talking about paper tuning out to 20 yards, where are you???
Where are all the people saying, "I like to have my bow super tuned, or mico tuned." <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>
Good judgment comes from years of bad judgment.
12-03-2002, 08:34 AM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: WEST PALM FLORIDA
Posts: 2,890
RE: Bare Shaft vs. Paper Tune, Arrow Flight HELP!
Paper tuneing at 20 yards is a moot point as the fletching has corected flight by then .Its has been usefull in determining if the arrow comes of the bow straight , start at 6 feet and go to 5 yards and 10 yards if that works for you . Some pepole get great groups with bows that dont paper tune .
If information provided by the members of this board have helped you please let us know .
If information provided by the members of this board have helped you please let us know .
12-03-2002, 09:18 AM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,994
RE: Bare Shaft vs. Paper Tune, Arrow Flight HELP!
From my time spent wathching these tuning threads, it seems the super tuners all start at a bullet then group tune which usually leaves them with a 1/4-1/2" 11 o'clock tear...
I'm with pinwheel on this one, it seems as though the lack of fletching is causing a spine/foc issues with your bow, leading to the differing impact points...
I'm with pinwheel on this one, it seems as though the lack of fletching is causing a spine/foc issues with your bow, leading to the differing impact points...
