DaveC

http://home.att.net/~sajackson/arrow_gt.html

Once you factor in fletching and inserts you'll be closer to (or above) 400 grains than 350 with the 7595's.

Now to add insult to injury my 61# Tribute @29" with smooth mods is shooting a 400 grainarrow ~270. (405 was 269)
I am currently hunting at 275fps shooting a 385 grain set-up.
SO if your 70# bow is providing 261 while my 60# Trib is shooting 270 I'd say something is off OR you have the string loaded down and your arrows are even heavier than the 400 grain mark.

Len in Maryland

muzzyman88: I think you ought to check out the 'actual' difference between the DL of the Allegiance vs the Guardian. I designed a tool to check DL and it shows that the Guardian is running 1/2" longer than the Allegiance or Tribute. Now, this may be a quirk/rarity, but it's worth checking. That would tend to explain why the Guardian feels like a 'stronger' pull than the Allegiance or Tribute to most who have pulled both or all three. I pull them all the time and I really have to disagree with most. Maybe this is the reason. It's a shame the tool isn't in the hands of a lot of Dealers yet. Maybe your Dealer can check it the 'old fashioned' way. I personally find the Guardian to be as smooth or smoother than the others.

Many will ask why 1/2" longer DL will make a difference. The reason is that once the shoulder blades bottom, anything beyond that becomes exponentially more difficult; especially with higher poundage.

Parks is a newbie and I respect that; but, I thinkhe needs to tone down the comments directed towards the manufacturers until he determines what is the actual problem. If he reads my thread on the aspects of the Guardian, it might shed some light on his cable dilemma. I saw a post over on AT where he was asking "What is wrong with this Guardian?' He was referring to speed and the problem is not the bow but his lack of information and/or erroneous test/equipment.

The Guardian I'm shooting with the factory 29" module (I won't tell you the actual DL) is shooting a 460 grain arrow at ~275 fps. Also, I was told the 28.5 and every other module for the Guardian is not yet available and that they will make their first shipments very soon. Maybe I missed something in my conversations with the factory.

Parks71

Len your right, I'm a newb to bows and thats why I am here. When I posted about the cables, nobody had the problem it seemed and really didnt seem to believe me until I posted pictures. Now it seems everyone has seen it but its not a big deal. No biggie, from the help here, it was resolved.

I am in no means attacking bowtech, I love the bow but more so the bow shop saying 262 is great for that arrow then I read others with heavier arrows shooting more.

My birth certificate says 319 with thier standard arrow at 71#s so I am assuming my bow with the bolts all the way down is 71#. I shoot it through the chrono myself a few times and it couldnt get past 262 and I was told thats great for my arrows. I believe the chrono is correct because my sight has to be set by FPS as well and it seems to be on target.

Sorry if you feel like I'm attacking bowtech but I'm not. Yes I wrote whats wrong with this guardian on there because I think their is something wrong with it, not the factorys part but how its rigged or SOMETHING. According the the certificate it was good at the factory so I want to find out what can be causing this.

I know when it was first rigged, it had the peep tube and had the same speed with it on so I thought for sure I would get a few out of that. I also know my nock was off center and I thought I would get some off that but it turned out the same.

Everytime I have a question like this for the shop I got it from they say its all new stuff to them and they just dont know. The manual nor website doesnt even tell you how to properly adjust the draw # so I guess I cant blame them but I do believe something is not right.


Once again, I love the bow, sorry if I am not coming across that way but I am a newb to this and am trying to find out proper info because I am not believin what the shop is telling me. Thanks

walks with a gimp

Unless you actually weigh the draw weight of the bow and weigh the arrows out in actual grains and shoot the combination through a different chronograph, I don't think anyone can tell you here if it's right or not.

Yuor dealer thinks it correct so I'm thinking that your arrows might be heavier or your draw weight is less than you think.

Len in Maryland

It's not you and not the bow. As usual, it's a combination of problems. Probably what annoys me most is the lack of training it takes to call yourself a PRO Shop. Buy a press, learn how to tie in a peep, bolt on some accessories, and hang out your shingle!!! This is in part why the ATA instituted the Seminar program at their trade show. There is such a high turnover rate in the trade, that something had/has to be done.

Of course, the mass merchants haven't made life easy. But, I thank you for buying from an archery shop rather than a mass merchant. I'm just sorry that you didn't get better service. On the other hand, the service you normally would get from a mass merchant wouldn't be better. I guess it's sometimes a double-edged sword when you haven't got a true PRO Shop with which to deal. There, I've ranted for the Holidays. [:@]

As far as your speed, you'll never see anything close to what the BC states with a hunting set-up. Couple that with the fact that you're using a WB and the tune they gave you is misleading (I saw your post over on AT), you could be loosing another 8-10 fps.

I suggest you look/ask around for a good shop. They're hard to find and I can only wish you luck.

Parks71

Called a different shop today and they said the chrono I used (that screw on where the stabalizer is) is not a accurate one because the arrow is still on the string??? Then I ask him if he has one I can test it and he said no, they dont check that there because who cares what it is with todays bows, they get the job done.

I think I'll just take that approach, I'm turning the bow down to 60#, shooting the same arrows and dont really care what the FPS is. I'm sure it will do the job at 30 yards and thats all that matters.

walks with a gimp

OR,, you could buy a Shooting Chrony and do it yourself. It's a VERY handy tool that will last you a very long time,, provided that you don't shoot it..

PA.JAY

Len i just read your first post you said I did'nt notice the bolt went in the riser like a mathews ! thanks for pointing that out !

Len in Maryland

An archery shop not having a chrono????? We've got several of them!

I remember filling out an application for a very large bow manufacturer last year. I had to laugh at one of the questions - "Does your shop have a bow press?" Heck, at that time I had 6 of them and now I think I've got 8 or 9. At my work station alone I've got 3.

Maybe I tend to expect too much from my 'peers.'

walks with a gimp

Len, what would you think about a dual cable rod that spread the cables on the Guardian to make it a shoot through system? I unhooked the inner cable, the one that goes to the top cam module from the slide and it dosen't take much to pull the cable over far enough to make the cables "shoot through ". An aluminum piece could be made that would slide over the existing cable rod that would house another shorter cable rod to suspend the inner cable with another slide. Recalling from a previous look see at the Guardian and not having one with me, it seemed that a 2 inch spacing of the dual rodson centers would provide equal arrow clearance on each side.

This might cause cable clearance on the lower cam but it could also be eliminated with yet another cable rod in the rear stabilizer hole. This lower cable slide would only be adjusted enough to provide adequate clearance for the lower cam.

Give it a look and let me know what you think and if you think there would be much if any speed loss with 3 single cable slides with this set up as a shoot through It looks like the cable in the sight picture could be eliminated this way.