Arthur P

I've said the same thing myself, but I am pretty close to having to get out the ketchup and eat some crow. Preliminary reports from the studies being conducted by Dr. Ashby in Australia seem to contradict that pet theory. It'sbeginning to show thatsmaller diameter arrowsreally do give slightly better penetrationon large game animals than larger diameter arrows. Assuming all else is equal, of course.

No matter what the theory is, the data has to back it up or it's not right and, so far, the data is showing that Chuck and I are wrong. The study is far from completed, but I trust Dr. Ashby's testingmethodology. At least he's out in the field testing on live game, not out in the back yard poking arrows into a foam target between beers for a magazine article.

Anyway, the resultsdon't distress me enough to piddle in my pants and give up on aluminum.They've worked far too well for me for far too many years to suddenly decide they're junk. As I said before, they work much better for me than carbon ever has.

So, the way I look at it, if people prefer carbon arrows and want to deal with all the side issues involved with them, more power to them.

Straightarrow

Here's why I like carbon:

I can make an arrow with a very stiff shaft that is light weight. This enables me to get a higher FOC with a given broadhead. I've been experimenting with extreme FOCs (because of Dr Ashby's results) and have been extremely happy with the performance I'm seeing. Take that stiff yet light weight carbon, add a 100 gr insert and a 125 gr broadhead and you can get FOCs in the 25-30% range.

The biggest negative I've found is the difficulty in getting a good helical with my feathers on a smaller diameter shaft. For this reason alone, I haven't gone to the super skinny carbons like an Axis. After spine tuning my arrows, attaching helical fletching, and shooting the very high FOC, I'm getting broadhead performance that is hard to beat - in my opinion.

Bowfever

Lots of good debate here, good reading. I never made the switch to carbon. Even after learning about the advantages and friends and relatives making the switch, I just didn't feel the need. I get very satisfactory results with my XX78 Super Slams and feel confident I can still get the job done with them. Until I lose that confidence, I'll always shoot aluminum.

Phil from Maine

I like shooting the aluminum arrows as I like the heavey weights and penetration behind a braodhead has not been a problem for me. For as far as carbon I can not shoot them with out the back of the arrow spining on me. Every deer I have shot with the heavey weights the arrow went clean through so why would I want to change any way?

Alpha Capo

both have advantages over the other in given applications...i shoot both...
i use alum's for varmit and fun shoots or when i want to go to theindoor range with a 150 grain yery dull field point(650 grain arrow total) and hear that hard heavysmack thats5 times louder than the guy thats standing next to me' withcarbon arrowsand 1200$rig.... and watch his jaw drop as hehears my arrows smack thetargetwalllike afreight train...cracks me up.....also with todays modern equipment you sould never have toworry about penetration with a good shot...i dont know why guys always debate this...it doesn't matter if you make a good shot. ive never had an arrow not pass throu clean with carbon or alum as long as you make a good shot.angles are everything.

isatarak

I used aluminum arrows for 6 years and thought they were just fine, but tried carbon starting last year and I like them better except for pulling out of my practice target. I plan on staying with the carbons.

Paul L Mohr

If a carbon arrow flexes less because it is stiffer, then wouldn't it be a different spine? If you had two arrows with identical spine they would still flex in a simular fashion. I will give you that carbon oscilates at a different rate. However I highly doubt it effects penitration or down range KE in any amount that is noticable.

I have done several tests with many different arrows. Different weights, different spines, you name it. I have never seen a stiffer carbon arrow of the same diameter and weight out penitrate an aluminum in a consistant medium.

And I know for a fact that for me aluminums penitrate better on live game. I have never not had a pass thru with 2213's on game, but have had trouble with carbons. And to top it off they were overly stiff carbon arrows so the flexing would be even less in the air and when they hit the target. And they were not light carbons either. They were simular in weight to my aluminums since I shoot thin walled arrows.

I know they have all sorts of high speed video of different arrows hitting a target and flopping all over. However live game doesn't give that much resistance, especially with a broad head. Unless maybe you hit a bone.

I have also accidently put a few arrows thru a wood backstop. On average the aluminums penitrate the wood better than the carbons ones. And they are still usable when I'm done. I wouldn't trust a carbon after that. You just never know what sort of damage happened inside the arrow with that sort of impact.

One thing I do know is regardless of arrow type, weight does effect down range energy and how it is transfered. Heavier arrows ALWAYS hit harder than a faster lighter one. I don't need the math to tell me this, you can see it, measure it and hear it when it hits the target.

And again, I shoot thin walled aluminums and still don't have any trouble with them bending. Then again I don't abuse my equipment either.

I also echo everything Arthur said, which is why I switched from carbons to aluminums almost exclusively.

Paul

ProStreetCamaro

Bigpapascout I feel the same way only I will go ahead and give my reasons.

I have shot both aluminum and carbon arrows. As soon as I switched to carbon I never looked back. I have a couple reasons but I will only get into my main reason here.

My friend and I decided to do a simple test. We took a large empty steel drum and decided to test which arrow would penetrate better. We first shot the aluminum with 100 grain point. The aluminum arrow only dented the steel and bent badly. We then took a carbon with the same point and shot the drum. The carbon arrow not only penetrated the front side of the drum but it made a complete pass through on both sides. The only damage done to the carbon arrow was the drum ripped the fletchings off. Its a plain and simple fact that carbon arrows penetrate better. I have killed many deer with carbon arrows and every single one of them has been complete pass through and stuck up in the ground. I can not say that for aluminum.

gselkhunter

Did you ever take physics? Of cousre weight has some thing to do with holding KE. There are KE studies for down range projectiles every where and weight and speed arethe contributing factors for holding KE down range. Lighter projectiles are greatly effected by air friction and slow faster than heavier projectiles, it is fact! Arrow oscillation can infact slow a shafts speed, but if the bow is tuned and the shafts are of proper spine oscillation is gone by 5yds off the bow for either shaft. No holding KE is not a strong point of carbon shafts, speed off the bow is, durability is. The major short coming of carbon shafts is it is hard to tell when they are damaged some times. You can always tell when an aluminum shaft is damaged.
One other issue, if you want better penetration go to a heavier broadhead and increase your weight forward then your KE doesn't go out the back of your shaft.
Gselkhunter

ol eagle eyes

Kinetic energy is a function of weight and velocity. In a perfect world KE would not care what weight the arrow is since the velocity change would balance it out (increase arrow weight reduces arrow velocity so KE in unchanged). However there are two factors that I am aware of that give the advantage to weight. One is friction mentioned above, more weight and less velocity means less frictional losses and it will retain more KE downrange... but who here shoots there bow at deer 100 yards away? The KE you loose up to 30 yards or so is pretty small although I havent run the numbers recently so i dont know exactly. Also Bows are typically more effeceint at transfering energy to the arrow with more weight on the string. I cannot say how big a difference it makes (probably only marginal), and every bow is different.

As far as carbon versus aluminum... I think this is like chevy vs ford. More of a personal opinion. If one was just so much better than the other I am sure the one would not stay in business. I think having a sharp broadhead and good arrow placement in the vitals is 95% or the battle. So long as your arrow is appropriateI doubt it would make much a difference in most instantses.

I havehunted withaluminum arrows since I was legal age in NY (14) and taken several deer with them. When I recently bought a new bow I tried carbons. Unfortunately all my equipment is different soI dont have a perfect apples to apples comparison.I used to shoot a 65# PSE Thunderflight Express with xx75 aluminums and 145gr 5-blade razorbacks. I now shoot whats in my sig. What I have noticed: every single aluminum I shot into a deerwas bent afterwards. So far I have shot 3 deer with carbons and one tree,3 arrows seem perfectly fine afterwards, I have only lost 1 since I hit the shoulder and the buck jumped hard and snapped it. I cant say which is better butI am sticking with the carbons.

There are so many factors other than KE you need to consider if your trying to pick the best arrow for you. Some prefer fastershooting arrows. Some like close pin spacing or even being able to use a single pin over a much greater range. Aluminums always made more noise drawing accros my rest. I dont know. But both will work fine. If in doubt try em both and decide for yourself once you have suffecient testing. If you dont have the money to try both then you probably wont be spending all the extra $for that very slight edge one might have over the other anyhow.