Detuning
 

What is it and how do you do it?

RE: Detuning
 

hit your arrow rest hard enough aginst a tree to make it move this will detune a bow quick[8D]

RE: Detuning
 

LOL @ BPS!

I think the term 'detuning' was dreamed up by the guys who erroneously think tuning the bow to shoot perfect bullet holes in paper makes for a perfectly tuned bow. Then they find out the bow won't shoot broadheads the way it should, so they have to make adjustments.

They are 'detuning' the bow from shooting those perfect bullet holes in order to make their broadheads shoot straight. To my mind, they are not detuning at all. The paper tune has given them a rough tune and they are fine tuning the bow to shoot broadheads.

RE: Detuning
 

I figured if i hang around long enough someonewill tell us what detuning means[8D]
Thanks Arthur:D

RE: Detuning
 

Well, ya know... On thinking about this, there is another way to go with this detuning stuff. Say you've got your bow tuned to shoot broadheads perfectly, but it won't shoot field points to the same point of aim.However, you really, really want your field points to hit right with your broadheads. That way you won't be forced to change your sight settings when switching from broadheads to field points.

So, you detune the bow from shooting your broadheads perfectly to make them shoot to the same point of impact you get with field points. It's not perfectly tuned for either, but maybe good enough to suit your needs.

That would be detuning for the sake of convenience.

RE: Detuning
 

I beleive its what you do to your bow when you sell it to your 3-d shooting partner who always gets you by a point or two!!!!

RE: Detuning
 

Arthur explained it the way I often use it. You will hear me use this term at times. Basically what I mean when I use it is that if you have paper tuned, bare shaft tuned and group tuned your bow, rest and arrows and they shoot as well as you can then it is tuned the best you are going to get it in my opinion. Now if you discover it will not group field points and your broad heads in the same exact spot and this is your ultimate goal then you will have to re-tune the bow to accomplish this. And in some cases you may actually be DE-tuning your bow to get these results. It would depend on how far off your spine was since this is what normally effects where your arrows impact.

Whether it is enough to make a difference to you depends on what your ultimate goal is with the bow and how well you shoot to begin with.

Paul

RE: Detuning
 

Arthur, I've always wondered about this one. It seems to go against logic. Is a bow truely tuned properly if you can't get broadheads hitting in a similar spot to field tips? It suggests to me that something is not right, otherwise the broadhead wouldn't be affected differently. Of course, when I consider bow tuning, I always include the arrows in this equation. Proper spine and high FOC helps when trying to resist the tendency of a broadhead to plane.

For example, I would never consider a set-up tuned that had broadheads impacting 4" away from field tips at 20 yards, yet I constantly see guys moving their sights and not worrying about what caused the broadhead to plane that much. That would leave me real uneasy about hunting with such a set-up.

RE: Detuning
 

Straightarrow, when you switch from field points to broadheads, you've changed the total length of the arrow, which moves the arrow's balance point. You've added to the arrow's frontal surface area. You've added wings to the front of the arrow which contend with the arrow's fletching for control of the arrow. Too many changes to assume one can tune a bow to perfectly shoot both at the same time.

For most people it won't matter. Either they don't shoot at distances wheretuning problems will eventually manifest themselves, or they don't shoot tight enough groups (at the short distances most people do most of their shooting)to really notice a half inch improvement in group sizes. Just because they can tune their bows to shoot both broadheads and field points to pretty much the same point of aim, within their skill level and average shootingdistance, doesn't mean the bow is actually perfectly tuned for both.That's simplyall mostpeople are looking for.

On the other hand,nobody can tune a bow better than their actual shooting skill allows (except in cases of blind luck).I suppose one could then make the argument that perfection is relative. What is 'perfectly tuned' for a backyard duffer would not be anywhere closefor a world class competitive shooter.

When I want to shoot broadheads, I forget about field points altogether. I tune the bow to shoot the smallest, most consistentgroups possible with broadheads. My field points probably won't strike the exact same point of aim, but why would I care? I'm looking for the best accuracy and consistency possible with broadheads.

Tuning to shoot broadheads and field points to the same point of aim is a compromise tune, done for the sake of convenience. It's not an indicator of a perfect tune.

RE: Detuning
 

So this is entirely a matter of perspective? If broadhead accuracy is yourinitial goal then a person is "de-tuning a bow" if they try to get field points and broadheads to hit the same point of aim. But, if yourinitial goal is to get fieldpoints and broadheads to hit the same point of aim then detuning could refer to adjusting your bow to get the best group size for broadheads.

Is that what you are saying?

RE: Detuning
 

Youwant to tunefor a specific goal of getting broadheads and field points to hit together, regardless of whetheryou get the very best accuracy possible with either. I guess from that perspective a bow could be called a perfectly when you achieve that goal.

Then you changed your goal and wanted the best possibleaccuracy with your broadheads, so you fine tuned the bow for broadheads. But thatfine tuning wound up'detuning' the bow it from shooting field points and broadheads to the same POI.

You could then turn around and decide you want to shoot field points in a tournament with that bow, so you fine tune it for top accuracy with field points. Then you'd be 'detuning' it from shooting broadheads perfectly, but it would be fine tuned to fit the new goal.

I prefer to think I'm fine tuning a bow to fit the job at hand. I've never really given the slightest thought that I was detuning it from doing another job. Detuning... :eek:Kinda silly to think that way, if you ask me.;)

RE: Detuning
 

I agree with a lot of what you said, but a few things don't ring true. The balance point remains in the exact same spot if the broadhead weighs the same as the field tip. I've actually found the balance point and marked it with a felt pen and when switching to a broadhead, had it balance on the same mark - repeatedly.

If I have a bow where broadheads impact with field tips at 20 yards, 40 yards, and 60 yards, what could possibly be out of tune? If center shot was off, they couldn't possibly impact the same at all those varying distances. The same would be true of nock height. When a broadhead starts to plane, it will be off by even further amounts at longer ranges. If your broadhead didn't impact the same as the field tip, it would mean that your individual sight pins would have to be adjusted out of plumb.

I have no problem getting broadheads and fieldtips to impact in the same general area when I tune my bows. I've never considered this to be a sign of an out-of-tune condition. I don't have to mess with individual pins. They are all still in the same plumb line. Arrows fly to where I'm pointing upon release.

Your point about only being able to tune to your shooting ability is a good one. However, I don't quite understand tuning to group size. I've never seen anyone measure their groups. How would one know if at one adjustment point, group size was 3.125" or 3.375"? It would take painstaking measurements that would unlikely be very accurate.

Here's how I do it: For centershot, draw a plumb line on the target. Adjust center shot so the same pin hits the plumb line at 20 yards and 60 yards. If you can't do this with a broadhead, it means that your arrow is not tuned correctly. Spine is off, FOC is too low, broadhead is not on straight, arrow has inconsistant spine, or some other problem. I am always able to make whatever arrow tuning adjustment that is needed to get the broadhead flying true.

For nock height, I tune with a bareshaft and field points to get the ideal position. I use string nocks, so I can make very fine adjustments on nock height. One turn of the string nock equals about 1/32" adjustment. Sometimes, I only use 1/2 turn of the string nock.

I remain unconvinced that impact will be significantly different on a setup that is correct. I'm referring not only to the bow's tune, but arrow spine, FOC, spine matched arrows and tuned broadheads. Maybe it has something to do with how I tune everything. I use stiffer than normal arrows, lots of helical feathers, very high FOC, heavier than average arrows

RE: Detuning
 

Very interesting discussion by people who obviously have more experience and expertise than I have. I have heard the "compromise tune" argument many times by guys who feel that getting the same impact point with broadheads and field points is some kind of compromise. I guess that may be true when shooting fingers, I'm not sure. I suppose it could be true with a release. I still can't fathom getting better broadhead accuracy than you can get if you get the cleanest, straightest possible launch of a broadhead tipped arrow to eliminate planing. If you get that, what could make the field point shoot someplace else? I've yet to get any type of satisfactory answer to that one (at least when we are discussing release shot bows.) Len in Maryland is the most knowledgeable person on this topic I have ever met. He seems to think that bare shaft/fletched field point/fletched broadhead all hitting in the same place is a good thing. I guess I can be glad that my two favorite hunting areas will only give me a 20 yard shot at the max distance. Going to spend more time worrying about scent control for next year.:D

RE: Detuning
 

When you measure to the back of the insert and totally disregard what's going on out in front, as long as the weight doesn't change the balance point doesn't change. For setting up broadhead arrows though, I far prefer the old fashioned method that measures the total length of the arrow, from nock to tip. With that method, the balance point does shift, and it shifts in the wrong direction.

You've obviously never shot field archery.Background... It'sa game of accuracy and consistency, shooting 4-arrow groups atevery target (though afew stations have multiple targets with one or twoarrows each)from about 10 feet to 80 yards.There is no slop factor allowed like you get in 3D. You know the exact distance to the target. You shoot four times which means you might get lucky on one or two shots, but not four in a row. You shoot 112 arrows in a round instead of just 30 or 40 which puts a huge demand on consistency. The smaller and more consistentyour group sizes, the better your score...as long as your groups are centered in the target. [&:]

When you're shooting groups at 60 yards - the distance I set for my longest pin - small tweaks can make dramatic differences in group sizes. When you've gotten the bow tuned to give you the smallest groups you can get at 60, that correlates to smaller group sizes at the shorter distances as well.

I've never, ever, had a bow fine tuned in that wayfor shooting field points that would shoot broadheads to the same point of aim. I've never seen ANYBODY that did, and I was fortunate enough to belong to a club that counted some of the best archers in Texas among it's members. Those were guys I made a point to hang out with and they taught me a great deal about shooting and tuning.

At the time, we also had unknown distance broadhead shoots (set uplike 3D but using fiberboard cutouts with piles of clean sand for backstops). The broadhead shoot was usually an add-on at the end of a standard field shoot, and we were required to use the same bow for both. So, I - along with every other person I shot with - had a dovetail sight mount and two sets of sights - one sighted in for field points and the other sighted for broadheads.

It has EVERTHING to do with how you tune. If you tune specifically to get your field points and broadheads to strike the same POI, what else can you expect when you tune to meet that specific goal?

Different goals require slightly different tunes. For field archery, my goal was to get the very best accuracy and consistency with field points. I got that, but my broadheads refused to strike the same POI. When I tuned specifically for broadheads using the same method,field points did not strike the same POI. I could have tuned to get both to strike together, but I would have remained at NFAA class B instead of being able to play with the Big Boys in A class. (I don't think NFAA uses the class breakdowns any more due to low participation.It's a shame more people don't do field archery, because they'dbecome much better shooters if they did.)

If you think that getting bare shaft/field points/broadheads all striking together is a good thing, set that as your goal and wind up with good enough accuracyto serve your purposes, then tuning the bow to get them all together is a good thing. Just remain aware that the bow is slightly DETUNED from shooting either oneperfectly.

Joe, you are correct that shooting a release instead of fingers diminishes the variation. It doesn't eliminate it though.

RE: Detuning
 

Arthur,

I am not trying to be argumentative but do you think it is possible that someone else may have been able to get the results that you were not? Could it have been the result of something unique to you or your setup? Though I have not personally tuned to the distances you mentioned for quite some time I have been able to get fairly tight broadhead and field point groups with both impacting the same area (within an inch or two) out to 40 yards. Now, if your comments are directed at higher levels of accuracy then what I am suggesting then I can understand your perspective and experiences with this issue.

RE: Detuning
 

I'll throw my 2 cents in here again as well (probably end up being 4 or 5 cents by the time I'm done though;)).

First of all yes, some people do measure thier groups. You are correct that the difference between 3.125 and 3.375 isn't a big deal, however if you are shooting 3 inch groups I wouldn't be worrying that much about it. That really isn't great shooting as far as target shooting is concerned. And fine tuning really doesn't shrink your groups, not in the way most think. What it does is makes them more consistant. Some top archers have shot some of the best scores recorded with really out of tune bows. The key was they had perfect or near perfect form.

Now if you can get bareshaft arrows, fletched arrows and broad heads all to group in the same spot (I'm talking 2-3 inches at 40 yards) then your bow is most likely tuned well and your spine is pretty darn good for your set up. Not to mention you have decent form and aiming skills.

Now lets say you get a bow and some arrows, then start tuning. Most will start will with paper tuning ( some will stop there[:o]). Then you decide to bareshaft tune, then maybe do some group tuning or walk back tuning. After you do all this you are happy with your set up and shooting the best groups you feel you can. And you are pretty confident the arrows are leaving the bow as straight as you can get them, especially if your bareshafts impact with your field points out to 30 or 40 yards.

Now you decide to slap some fixed blades on there. You shoot some arrows and they group fine but not where you aimed. Now you you want to broad head tune. In order to do this most will start messing with thier rest or nocking point. In essence changing what you were confident was a perfect tune prior to this. You may be DE-tuning your previous set up. Will you notice at 20 yards or so with field tipped arrow in your back yard? Most likely not, especially if you are shooting 3 inch groups on average. Now if you shot longer distances or indoor spots I bet your scores would change and your bow wouldn't be as forgiving anymore. I bet your broad head groups would also open up a bit as well. Would it be enough to make your bow so inacurate you can't hunt with it? I highly doubt it, I am quite sure it will be just as deadly. However I wouldn't count on shooting a 300 vegas round with it.

The reason behind this is most likely your arrow spine. Well matched and consistant arrow spine is pretty important in tuning and grouping well. Even more so with fixed blade heads.

It really boils down to what you want to do with your bow. Do you want an all around bow that will do both well? If so then broad head tuning is what you should try. I wouldn't even waste time on bare shaft tuning, just go right to broad head tuning and work on that until you are happy. The honest truth is that for most average archers well fletched target tipped arrows are pretty darn forgiving and if you have good form super tuning is not ultra important.

Now if you want a target bow that you will occasionally hunt with, but more than 90 percent of it's use will be indoor spots or 3-D then I would go for bare shaft and group tuning, then see where your broad heads impact and compensate for that when hunting. If you picked your spine well they should be pretty close anyway. If you tune your bow and your broad heads are 3-4 inches or more away from your field points something more is wrong then simple rest or nock adjustments. I'd start playing with the draw weight of your bow or looking at your grip and form.

Just my opinions anyway. It really boils down to what makes you happy and confident in your equipment.

Paul

RE: Detuning
 

Frank, again, if you tune toward the specific goal of making your field points and broadheads strike the same POI, it can be done.

I'm saying the bow can be tuned to shoot broadheads even better when you tune specifically for them. It will also shoot field points even better if you tune specifically for them.

And, yes, it's absolutely possible that, through some strange quirk of fate or maybe Divine Intervention, you could wind up with a bow/arrow/broadhead/tune combination that will shoot both field points and broadheads perfectly and to the same POI.

But then, again, is the guy who's doing the tuning skilled enough to see the differences? Is he shooting to distances where variations in POI can be readily seen? For instance, the 'inch or two' you see at 40 yards would becloser to threeinches at 60 yards, or 4" at 80 yards. Add those extra inches to your normal group sizes at those distances and you get an idea of what can happen.

Shooting field archery, those 4" at 80 yards would easily put you out of the spot and into the 4 ring. So... Yes, I suppose Iam talking about a greaterlevel of accuracy and consistency- at longer distances -than most people who've come up in the 3D sport have ever demanded of their equipment.

I freely admit that probablynone of thismeans a flippin' thing to 99% of the guys who cruise this forum, and they're happy as clams at getting their broadheads and field points to strike same POIover the distances they commonly shoot. And I can see why they would call it a perfect tune.But allowing that to go unchallenged would bea disservice to that other 1%, who would want or need to know they can tune for specific purposes and get better results.

RE: Detuning
 

I can't imagine tuning a bow to shoot a broadhead without messing with the spine. It's by far, the most critical aspect in my opinion. I use the bareshaft to test spine, and determine nock height - that's all, but it's critically important when shooting a broadhead.

I still think that when you end up with broadheads hitting in a significantly different spot, you missed something. The spine is incorrect, the FOC is too low, the bow has a problem, the arrows aren't spined matched, the broadheads aren't on perfectly straight, or some other critical area was missed. Of course, with some set-ups, the best you can do, will not allow them to impact in the same spot. Correct the problem with that set-up and they will.

Arthur, you're right, I've never shot field archery, but it sounds like fun. I do have a range in my yard that allows me to shoot up to 100 yards, which I shoot at every week. I have a very good handle on my relative group size at a 100 yards, but I don't actually measure them. If there was a problem with the group size, I wouldn't move my centershot. That was determined with my plumb line, which is the most accurate method I can think of. If I'm hitting a plumb line at all distances, how could group tuning improve the centershot setting on the bow? It can't. I prefer to test one vector at a time, which it why I shoot for a plumb line and then a horizontal line when setting nock height.

RE: Detuning
 

I wanted to comment on this point. It doesn't matter where I measure from. The mark I place on the arrow is the same balance point whether I use a field tip or a broadhead. On a flexing shaft, the actual balance point on the shaft is what is important. If the tip weight remains the same, it doesn't matter what the configuration is. The shaft will still flex the same and balance in the same spot.

RE: Detuning
 

SA, before I walk away from this brick wall to take care of the bumps it's left on my head... You've been constantly returning to the issue of arrow spine and, I admit, I'm a bit hurt. Surely you don't think I have overlooked something THAT basic, do you? It's part of the tuning procedure.

Sometimes just changing the draw weight of the bow by 1/4 turn on each limb bolt can match the bow better to the arrow's spine and have dramatic effect on group size. As can making the tiniest changes in cam timing/rotation/synchronization. Or tiller. Even cleaning or replacing the cable slide can have a measurable effect. It's not always nock point and centershot you need to take care of.

Hmmm.... As I was typing this, a little light bulb flashed over my head. It may be with carbon arrows - and the spine inconsistencies that I and others have documented on the forums - that it's not possible to fine tune group sizes like I'm describing. Might have some bearing on why you think this is all poppylarky. [&:]

RE: Detuning
 

I understand where you are coming from and must admit that I have rarely tuned to the level of accuracy you arereferring to. However, you now have me intrigued in that regard. When it comes time for the new bow I believe I will give it a try.

It is curious though as this seems to be an issue with the degree to which one tunes not necessarily a difference in end results. It is entirely possible to get a bow to shoot both broadheads and field points to the same point of impact and still get a good level of grouping for broadheads provided one isn't looking the for the optimal level of either. I think we can all agree on that. The definition of "optimal" I think is the point of contention. I do not have the skill or the time to get to level of of accuracy that you mention but I trust your judgement and understand why you have reached the opinion that you have on the subject.

RE: Detuning
 

I couldn't either to be honest, but I doubt we are the average archer, which is what I was talking about. Most would just start wrenching on the rest or moving the nocking point even if it took it waay away from what you know it should be.

I carefully pick the size and length of arrow I will use using a program that is calibrated to my bows effeciency, then play with my weight range until it matches my set up. Then fine tune it from there. Actually you end up going back and forth to get it perfect if you are that anal about it.

However most just get a bow, max the poundage out and grab some 60 some dollar carbon arrows that some crappy chart said will work and hope it works out alright for them.

Then whine because they can't split a field tipped arrow with a fixed blade tipped arrow. Go figure;). And then chances are they are shooting some light carbon with straight fletching and crappy FOC, and if they are lucky they are using the same weight tips for both set ups.

Oops, I think I'm ranting, sorry guys.

Paul

RE: Detuning
 

No way. I'm sure you think about almost everything. ;)

That's exactly what I'm referring to. When I have a situation where my field tips are not hitting near my broadheads, I try to figure out what is causing the broadheads to plane off line. I almost never mess with center shot or nock height. I usually start by experimenting with the draw weight or tip weight. I'll even shorten arrow length if I need to . I usually have already experimented with cam timing and position. I also get slightly varying results from experimenting with tiller. The bottom line is, when I get done tuning, my broadheads and field tips are hitting my plumb line and horizontal line at varying distances. Normally, when I'm done, the bareshafts group right along with the others (I don't shoot the bareshafts past 25 yards)

I spend a lot of time testing and tuning for spine. I run all my arrows through a spine tester and cull any that are significantly off. I also align the cock feather with the stiff side on each arrow. This alone has greatly shrunk my broadhead groups. My groups are not smaller when I shoot aluminums with my broadheads.

I've wondered if I'm seeing more consistancy between my broadheads and field tips, because I shoot very high FOC. Right now, I'm at about 20% FOC and haven't shot broadheads below 13% for several years. The archery shop I hang at, has a lot of hunters that that frequent it. None shoot an FOC as high as I do and none spend the time I do on my arrows, making sure they are ideal for my setup. I've become a huge fan of high FOCs and am in the process of leaning towards extreme FOCs. I think the benefits towards not only better accuracy, but increased penetration are significant.

I don't want to leave the impression that I do anything possible to get my broadheads and field tips hitting together. It's just happens to be the results of my tuning process. If I was going to guess as to what factors contribute most to this, it would be spine tuned arrows, high FOC, helical 5" feathers, and fine tuning the dynamic spine on my arrows, being shot out of my set-up.

RE: Detuning
 

The best arrows I have shot with fixed blades were Arrow Dynamics Nitro Stingers, the tapered ones. They have quite a bit of FOC and are pretty stiff. These things flew like darts with fixed blades and required very little tuning.

I have also shot fixed blades with 7 percent FOC though with good results, however it took way more effort to get them there.

I have always felt adequate fletching and FOC were the keys to good arrow flight. Not the best idea for long range shooting from what I understand. Maybe Arthur can explain that one.

Paul

RE: Detuning
 

For one thing, Paul, I totally disagree that a high FOC is not good for long range shooting. Arrows with high FOC are supposed to 'nosedive' at long range, according to the guys who subscribe to that theory. Plain and simple, they don't nosedive. Trajectory might not be as flat but that's due to the arrow weighing more, not to the weight distribution of the arrow.

It's another speed cult myth.;)

Ever played a round of darts? Darts are made with a very high FOC. Try throwing a dart fins first instead of point first and it will flip around and, after a couple of wobbles, will straighten out, quickly stabilize and fly point first. It'll act just like you threw it point first to start with. The heavy end naturally wants to go in front and the light end is perfectly content to trail along directly behind it. I guess somebody with a PhD in physics could explain how it works, but all I need to know is that it works... and it do.;)

Same deal with arrows. The higher the FOC, the more stable the arrow. The higher the FOC, the quicker the arrow will stabilize when it leaves the bow, or in case of a minor deflection. The more stable the arrow's flight, the more accurate it is. Not to mention the easier it makes bow tuning.

When someone does what Straightarrow does, run a really high FOC then put big ol' feathers in a healthy helical on the back end of the arrow, he winds up with an incredibly stable arrow. It costs some speed and a bit of trajectory, but everything in archery is a tradeoff.

RE: Detuning
 

That is pretty much what I read/heard. It really effects the trajectory at longer ranges. From what I understood the norm is skinny arrows and low profile fletches for much less drag.

The explanation I got was that you didn't need the extra stabilization because the arrow has much more time and distance to stabilize on it's own. Versus shooting at closer distances and having to force the arrow to stabilize much quicker. Also it was mentioned that more FOC and especially more drag could effect the arrows consistancy from arrow to arrow at much longer ranges. Like if one arrow had slightly more drag than another it could effect it's impact point farther down range. Something you wouldn't notice at 20 or 30 yards, but would have a large impact at 70-90 meters. So the less drag and more arrow dynamic the arrow the better it would slip thru the air and be more consistant from arrow to arrow.

Again, only going by what I have read on the net and what one guy told me a few years ago at a club. I have no real first hand experiance on the subject as you do. I used to practice at 70 meters sometimes, but honestly wasn't what I would good at that distance. Every now and then I could pull myself together and get 3 arrows to group in a few inches, but mostly fist sized or bigger groups.

I like to do it because at that distance you can really tell if you are doing something wrong with your form or grip. If you pull a shot you really PULL a shot;).

I tend to agree with your thoery of thinking though. If you are shooting at known distances who give a rats butt how fast the arrow is going. When I shot spots I would see guys shooting light arrows with straight vanes and hunting type draw weights. The heck with that, I shot arrows with LOT's of fletch and lower draw weights. Why wear myself out, and who cares how fast the arrow gets there? I did a lot of playing though, as far as trying different arrows, releases, rests and the such. It wasn't uncommon for my set up to be different every week. Doesn't do much for your scores, but I had fun. I really just wanted a warm place to shoot in the winter. I wasn't there to win anything.

Paul

RE: Detuning
 

Yeah, I now spend more time dragging heavy deer, instead of looking for my errant arrows. I kind of like that tradeoff.

Actually, my arrows only go about 525 grains - and that's with 20% FOC. They still fly quite flat, since they're probably going around 230-240 fps. I shoot much better groups with these at 80-90 yards then I ever did with my lower FOC, lighter arrows.

I've been shooting arrow with an FOC of around 26% out of my longbow, and really love how they fly, but it's hard to compare them, since I can't shoot them past 35 yards without looking foolish. This winter I plan on building up a dozen for my compound that are in the 25-28% FOC range. I'm betting that they fly even better.

RE: Detuning
 

More time and distance to stabilize is only surface truth. The problem is, the further downrange your arrows get before they stabilize, the more margin of error gets accumulated. Are all your arrows going to stabilize consistently? Are they all going tostill be on track to where you aimed them when they stabilize?

You still want the arrow to stabilize as soon as possible after it leaves the bow. Frankly, I'd take my chances with drag before I'd allow time and distance to do the trick. At least I can do my best to make sure all my arrows are fletched consistently so they will have a consistent amount of drag.

But you can definitely wind up with poor long range results if you have EXCESSIVE drag. Especially if you're shooting in the wind.

If I were setting up an arrow specifically to shoot 90 meter FITA rounds, I would not be using big honkin' 6" high profile banana cut feathers with a hard helical wrap. Instead, I'd use 2 1/2-3" low profile feathers with a slight offset but with enough weight in the tip to give me an FOC around 15%.

Most FITA shooters use FOC's running 11-16%. The higher FOC gives the arrow it's best chance to stabilize quickly, enough stability to fly well with less fletching, and the small fletching (less drag)keeps speed up down range so wind drift isn't as much of an issue. The arrow stabilizes sooner, and wind drift is decreased and both of those add up to better groups and higher scores.

Put a broadhead on that FITA arrow though, and I'd darn sure be using bigger feathers and more helicalto control it. And I would retain that 15% FOC.

Now, hardcore 3Ders set up for maximum speed and use small fletches while running FOC's down in the 6-8% range. Then they do all kinds of gymnastics and gyrations with their bow tune in order to get that arrow launched as clean and straight as possible. They HAVE to go through all that trouble because they are shooting high speeds at relatively short distances. The arrow better be coming off the bow straight because it's going too blinkin'fast to stabilize before it hits the target. And some of 'em use the same FOC/fletching setup with fixed blade broadheads!!Takes more guts than I've got.;)

RE: Detuning
 

some guys worry about their setup way too much!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D:D

is wind drift alsoremedy'd by more spin???? i think the best thing is to find the happy medium for your bow...also ive jumped down from 65lbs to 55lbs recently and shoot tighter groups than ever...even tho my speed is prob 25fps slower also now shoot 5 inch helical feathers w big offset and 125 grain tips heavy arrows compared to most but not sure of the exact wieght.

is a heavy arrow lesseffected bywind driftdownrange?????

RE: Detuning
 

I think it depends on how much weight and the profile of the arrow. In theory, yes a heavy projectile usually bucks the wind better than a lighter one. However if the heavier projectile is so large that it "catches" more wind it can more easily be blown off course.

A good example of this is rifled shotgun slugs. Sure they are heavy, however do to the slower speeds, size and shape of the slug they don't do very good in the wind beyond 50-75 yards. They drift far enough at 100 yards that it is wise to zero your scope for windage at 50 yards or so and then test them at 100 yards on a calm day, then again on a windy day to see what sort of variation you get. Where as if you are shooting a 30 caliber centerfire the heavier bullet will usually buck the wind better, given it is the same caliber weapon. You can't compare a 30-30 with a heavy bullet to a 300 win mag with a lighter bullet. Velocity also effects wind drift to a point, but the speeds have to dramatically increase I think.

I can only assume slower moving arrows would be subject to the same physics. I bet arrow length would have something to do with it as well.

Paul