Trykon broadhead issues
 

:D I have run into a small issue with my Trykon that I could use some help with. No doubt about it, the bow is quiet, accurate and has no hand shock, almost shoots itself. The issue is with Broadheads, thay come in 2-3 inches low no matter what I do. I have:

adjusted the cables, changed spine, changed draw weight, changed heads, changed the rest to three diffrent rests with no change regardless of adjustment. It shoots field points to the point of wrecking arrows but I can't get the bheads closer than 2-3 inches low, center shot is fine.

Draw weight 56# Draw length 26" Rest is a an NAP 360, arrows Beman ICS 500 camo hunters, heads are slick tricks. Winners Choice string and cables, loop and hunt and shoot a back tension release. Cams appear in the right place and within the marks. It had been 4-5 inches low before cable adjustment. Since that adjustment nothing seems to get me where I want to be, +/- an inch or better.

Any suggestions would be greatly apprciated!

Pat

RE: Trykon broadhead issues
 

You give pretty decent specifics and I don't see any reason this should not work, BUT maybe the bow just doesn't like those 500's. If you have any give a 400 spine a try or take a turn off the limbs to see what happens.

I shoot 500's at the same weight (roughly) and 27" with great success so can't give a definitive answer. Of course the bow shoots a 300 spine almost identically.

RE: Trykon broadhead issues
 

VA deer hunter , have you tryed tiller tuneing ? that "might" be a sulution for you .
Try taking a 1/4 turn out of your top limb , and putting a 1/4 turn in your bottom , as a start , I see you are inbetween pounds , it is very possible your limbs are not out the same , and even if they are , sometimes this works .

RE: Trykon broadhead issues
 

You might also try a different rest.

My Trykon XL would not shoot worth a darn with the NAP 360 rest. I could never get decent arrow flight. I switched to a blade rest just for a test, and almost magically my problems disappeared.

RE: Trykon broadhead issues
 

Thanks folks, Yes I have tried 400's no difference also two two other rests a QT 4000 and a Whisker Biscuit. I am very interested in the tiller tune idea. Going to try that next.

Pat

RE: Trykon broadhead issues
 

I guess I'll state the obvious,but did you try lowering the nock point a tad?


CB

RE: Trykon broadhead issues
 

Have you taken a look at the top cam for any evidence of cam lean?

If your string does not come absoloutely straight off of the cam track the bow will be nearly impossible to tune......expecially with broadheads.

You may have already done this, but put the bow on a draw board, or a hook in the ceiling. Bring the bow to full draw and ensure that both cams reach the draw stops at exactaly the same time (possibly have the top cam every so slightly ahead)

Set your arrow rest so the bottom of the arrow is even with the center of the berger button hole (even with the berger button always ends up too low for proper adjustment)
I would also verify that your nock point is about 1/8" above level.

RE: Trykon broadhead issues
 

Thanks for all the input so far. Yes I have checked for cam lean and the bushings etc are good to go and I doublechecked it at full draw and in the press. As you know some of the early Trkons slipped out of the factory missing a spacer up top.

Yes I have changed the noc point at the string and tried adjusting the rest. The weird part is it really never improves the group just makes it worse.

I have gotten the vertical differentional down to less than three inches by dropping the poundage a full turn. It also now shoots 2114 allumimuns better than the 500 or 400 carbons. Go figure.

The strange part of this whole mess is I have a Havotec that shoots 500's with the same broadhead and draw weight that slices nocs. I bought the Trykon because of its suberb accuracy but this broadhead thing is just stumpping me.

Pat

RE: Trykon broadhead issues
 

Not for nothing, but having your broadheads and fieldpoints hit the same point of impact is not necessarily the optimum tune for either setup.

Out of a bow tuned optimally for FP flight, your BHs will impact somewhere other than the POI for the FPs
The same holds true for a bow tuned for BH flight.

Try this little exercise.

Put down the FPs alltogether.

Paper tune your bow with BHs at about 5 yards. Get a pretty good tear, does not have to be perfect.

Now perform walkback tuning with the BH tipped arrows
In case you are not farmiliar with walkback tuning, you draw a line on your target that is vertical (use a plumb line or a level to ensure it is perfectly vertical)
1) Put a mark near the top of your target and use it for an aiming point
2) Shoot 3 "good" arrows at 20 yards with your 20 yard pin
3) Shoot 3 "good" arrows at 30 yards with your 20 yardpin. Aim at the same spot as you did at 20 yards
4) Repeat at 40 and as far out as your skill or height of the target will let you without drilling an arrow into the ground

If your arrow groups scribe a line that is not vertical, you need to move the windage on your rest

If the line looks like this \ : Move your rest to the Left 1/16" or less
If the line looks like this / : Move your rest to the Right 1/16" or less

Repeat the above procedure until your groups are vertical with respect to your plumb line.

If you look at Eastons Tuning Guide (http://www.eastonarchery.com/downloa...ning_guide.zip)
They give you specific instructions for adjusting your nock point with respect to the impact of FPs and BHs

From what I have read and my personal experiences, you may have to move your nock point down a bit, or move your rest up.

RE: Trykon broadhead issues
 

Actually along the horizontal the error is near zero. So left to right and vice versa its good. Center shot is fine. On the vertical is where it is not responding. Regardless of rest or noc adjustment it only get s worse and moves both the FP and BH in the same direct with no closure.

I will try and find time to try your method this weekend.

Thanka,

Pat

RE: Trykon broadhead issues
 

If moving the rest up or down seems to move both the FP and BHs the same amount (they stay 3" apart) then I would have to say you either have a vane contact issue or the cam timing is slightly off.

The Hybrid cams while being very tolerant to string and cable strech have absoloutely horrible nock travel in the last 2" of the power stroke IF the timing is off. They also don't need to be off very much to cause a real problem.

At this point, I would go back to basics. Check out this thread on AT (http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=207391)
It has what I consider to be the best procedure for setting up the timing on the cam and a half bows (cam and a half, spiral cams, zephyr cams, wheel and a half) it will work for them all.

Get your cam timing perfect and then make another run at the broadhead flight issue. I have or had 7 cam and a half bows and I was able to get each and every one in perfect timing with this procedure. You will need access to a bow press along with a draw weight scale and a draw board to do this correctly.

If you don't have access to a draw board, you can use a standard bicycle hook and screw it into a rafter or truss in your ceiling. You then hook your D-Loop on it and pull it to full draw. The cams are almost perfectly at eye level when you do this.

RE: Trykon broadhead issues
 

Hi guys ~I am new to this board.

98Redline is right ~ that thread is the best process for getting your bow timed. I had the same problem with my Trykon XL . First off , it would only shoot bullet holes with the center-shot set a little past 1 1/8 " . I was using a NAP/Hoyt Smart Rest.Even shooting bullets with the FP's, the broadheads were not even close. This is after many hours of tuning at my house and the pro shop that I go to.Yesterday I switched my rest to the old trusty QT3000 , and in two shots had bullet holeswith broadheads very close to FP's. The center-shot is at a little over 13/16 . There seems to be something amiss with some Trykons and fall-aways. Hope this helps and good luck.

Blessings

RE: Trykon broadhead issues
 

The center shot on my Trykon XL is set at .842" (.8125 is 13/16) and the bow shoots awesome. I am using a drop away (Vapor Trail Limb Driver)

One of the biggest problems I have seen with drop away rests and hoyt bows in general is when setting up with the arrow in the center of the berger button, there is normally not enough clearance for the fletching as the arrow passes over the drop away in the down position. I have yet to see a Hoyt that worked well set up in this position. For a shoot through type rest, you can get away with this as the fletch normally passes between the prongs.

thespyhunter: If you are looking to get your smartrest set up, try moving the rest and nock point up so the bottom of the arrow is even with the center of the berger button. The guy I hunt with uses the same setup as you (Trykon XL + smart rest) and we had to move his arrow position up to get adequate fletch clearance.

Another thing to be very cautious about. If you are using one of the NAP/Hoyt smart rests or a QT4000 AND one of the Hoyt 2 piece quivers (6 arrow for sure, not sure about the 4 arrow version) The arrow in the #3 spot from the rear of the bow will contact the brass knurled knob used to adjust the centershot. This will prevent the rest from dropping fast enough or all the way and will result in severe tuning problems....as you can imagine.

RE: Trykon broadhead issues
 

98Redline ~ were you able to get the Smart Rest set close to the 3/4 - 13/16 center-shot ? I had mine set up that way, and the arrows hit where I aimed.The problem was I had a 1 1/2 right tear that would not go away. Eastons guide said that was unusual , and all I could do was move the rest left.

RE: Trykon broadhead issues
 

The impossible to clear up right tear with the Trykon is normally attributed to the top cam leaning just a little bit.

Hold an arrow flat aganst the side of the top cam. If it does not run parallel to the string then you will need to adjust your yoke (yes you can twist one side of the floating yoke) to get your cam straight. This will most likely clear up the right tear problem. It seems to be a pretty common malady for the Trykons.

RE: Trykon broadhead issues
 

Thanks for the info 98redline. I just tried the arrow on the cam trick, and the arrow crosses over the sting right at the grip area. That is some serious cam lean. I think I'll try to get that fixed.

RE: Trykon broadhead issues
 

Just a quick thought ~ wont the floating yoke re-center itself once its twisted?

RE: Trykon broadhead issues
 

Nope

I have about 2X as many twists on the right side as the left, and hundreds of shots later, it has not moved.

I think the next set of cables I buy will have a solid yoke

RE: Trykon broadhead issues
 

98Redline ~ no dice brother.

I have twisted and twisted. No difference in the cam lean. BUT ~ I did figure out how to fix it. I should recieve my new Vapor Trail string and cable set Tuesday ;).I have the Vtec ready to go for season, so I will take my time and use Javi's tuning guide and will get the cams straight and get rid of the right tear. Thanks for the input.

Blessings and good hunting :)

RE: Trykon broadhead issues
 

All right guys here is the story. I used the supplied tuning information and the bow is in "perfect time" draw stop and upper cable are right on in the hooter shooter.

The good news is it feels and shoots the best it has since I purchased it. The bad news is it is still shoting braodheads low but nw only about 1-2"s which is bearable. I changed rests to a whisker biscuit and intend on trying to adjust it to see if it helps improve things.

Right now though the bow has a grea feel and I may just put up with it being low.

Pat

RE: Trykon broadhead issues
 

All right guys I have discovered the problem and am interested in comments to my solution. Ends up that setting the noc point at its normal position in reference to the Berger point does not apply when the draw length is as short as mine (26"). I started walking the noc up the the string and low and behold the braodheads began to move up to the field points. The entire set up, rest and noc point are now a 1/16'' up in reference to the berger button hole.

It appears that the level noc travel point on the string as it relates to the noc level, changes with the cam for draw length. The end result is the cam timing is correct per the guru instructions, the valley is just right and now the arrow flight is correct. And the broadheads are level with the field points.

Comments...

Pat